Judge William Adams beats daughter for using the Internet

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis


but, we have the video...what story does the video show us?

Like every other video up here on ATS or anywhere else, it only shows part of the story.
And apparently...only part of the story is all you need to pass judgment.

reply to post by Matthew Dark


Look...and I've said this before.
I'm not defending the guy.
But I'm also not advocating for the kid.
My initial response was that it's none of our business how this guy disciplines his kid.
But it somehow snowballed into personal attacks on me.
So okay...I'm ready...let's throw down.

reply to post by Matthew Dark


well, in the video I saw - I saw a girl being whipped by her father and her mother - with a belt

for 7 minutes or so

I've asked this before - but nobody seems to want to offer even their opinion - what could possibly make that OK?

Assuming that something is missing and we're really not seeing all that's there - or that maybe there's some kind of CGI involved...(damn clever these kids) what would make what's happening in this video acceptable?

even if it's only your opinion - I'd like to know

what I'm asking is (in case you're confused): when is beating your child the right thing to do?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Okay first, you're (albeit ineffectively) twisting my words.
I never said that it's okay, only that it's none of our business.
Secondly, to say there might be some "cgi" or whatever is just lame.
You know full well that I'm referring to what had or had not transpired prior to the incident and all that had gone on after.
All you see is one incident and you're going on some crusade.
You're an armchair hero...talking smack to people in the internets.
If you're so concerned and so compassionate, then go do something.
Butt your nose in where it doesn't belong.
All I see is misquoting, miscommunication and willfull ignorance.
I never at any time said that hitting a kid is okay, only that this incident was way blown out of proportion.
You want my opinion, I gave it at the beginning, it hasn't changed.
It's none of our business.
You go on about how the guy has no right to hit his kid, fine. But along those same exact lines (because I pride myself on being fair across the board), you don't have the right to interfere in someone else's family...especially when you blatantly ignore some very crucial facts.
Or are you going to sit there and deny that you're ignoring a vast majority of the other information that has surfaced?

I think it is disgusting that this man AND his wife got off due to the statute of limitations. I do not think there should be a time limit on something like that. Children should be allowed to grow up and press charges against their abusers.

Beating into submission IS child abuse. This was awefull. I dont care what the heck she did. You do not treat a human being like that. EVER

reply to post by Matthew Dark


Temper, temper Matt...

If you're not up for the discussion - bow out. Nobody attacked you...I begin to see they whys of some of this now

Plus you and a few others engage in ad hominem attacks on posters rather than content which also reduces the legitimacy of your arguments.

the content is the video - and you are taking the word of someone who says it's about a Mercedes and money - when you don't know that that is true

I don't know that that's true either - but I don't really care

my only argument is this: what he did in that video is a crime. It's a crime against people - it's a crime against his own flesh and blood. Try arguing that - and also try being civil

She's lucky that she got off with that instead of her father having her arrested and sitting in front of another judge.

If what she did was so bad, wrong enough to warrant a very serious lesson - THAT would have been the best way to go. I'm not sure why you can't see that

That would indeed be a lesson she would never forget - and that would be the kind of punishment given out by a loving father and an honorable judge

Have you noticed that the guy spoke to the press but the kid hasn't?

www.msnbc.msn.com...

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


did you read the news story that i provided?????



this kid is clearly getting back at her father and she owned a EXPENSIVE car at at early age and dropped out of school

hiting your kids is wrong but as a parent my self in certain situations hitting your kid may be your only recourse in getting you very important point across .
this kid was stealing, she prob stole cash and lied to her parents about everything so in this case maybe the beating was needed , yet we dont know what really happend because we were not there and the fact that the kids video taped it clearly states she intended to blackmail her father at a later date ...

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


You might want to re-consider how you address me, my name isn't "Matt"...it's Matthew.
Again, you're clearly displaying your inability to read through something.
And don't get condescending with me because I disagree with you.
How many times to I have to say that I don't agree with this kid being hit?
I've said it in...well...every one of my posts.
My point is that this kid had every opportunity to release this video years ago but instead lived on her father's dime.
When that dime was pulled away, the kid threatened her father with blackmail.
You don't care about the other details?
That's part of the issue I've been addressing from the get-go.
If this girl was so concerned about getting her father help and/or fearing for her life, then I highly doubt that it would've taken what...7 years to release the video.
The fact of the matter is this...
Yes, the kid got beat.
No, it's not cool.
(and now I'm repeating myself)
This kid obviously wanted to sponge off her father and didn't like having to pay her own way.
Is she spoiled?
Very likely, yes.
Did the guy spoil her?
Very likely, yes.
Is it right to hit her?
No.
You all do realize that she knew she was doing something bad to begin with, which is why she set up the camera.
It's a set up if I've ever seen one.
You're not looking at the entire context.
And that's my issue here.
Not whether or not it's okay to hit a kid...it's not.
I've dedicated my life to advocating for abused people in the system so please don't sit there and profess to teach me any lessons.
A huge part of this is that the kid admitted to doing wrong, was disciplined (albeit harshly) and then waited 7 years to use that information to blackmail her father.
How is any of that okay?

reply to post by Matthew Dark


Mathew Dark - we obviously have nothing left to say between the two of us

you haven't answered a single question I've asked

you're angry - I get it

but I won't back down from my point which, I'll repeat, is simply this: the video happened when she was 16 - what happened in the video was wrong

what comes after that is still up for discussion - but it doesn't change the past

believe what you want to believe- she is a vengeful child - and she blackmailed her father

why did she do it?

money? is she just a bad seed?

what other reason could there be?

doesn't matter - doesn't change what we saw in the video

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Actually, I'm not angry.
So please do not dictate to me how I feel.
And I believe I answered all of your questions succinctly.
Why'd she do it?
Already covered.
Is she a bad seed?
I don't know the girl personally so I can't say with any certainty.
Why are you telling me that I have no more to say to you when I obviously do?
If all you're concerned with is what you see in the video and not any of the facts leading up to or happening after the incident, then you have little right to say much of anything other than your opinion...which you are entitled to.
However, as a person who actually has a job investigating incidents like this, I need all of the facts because all too often, I've seen kids trying to get back at their parents for all sorts of reasons.
I deal in fact, not opinion.
I have personally witnessed a kid doing everything in their power to ruin a parent's life simply because they were cut off financially.
Let me ask you something...
In your opinion...why would the kid wait 7 years to release the video? What motivation could she possibly have to keep something like that under wraps for so long if she was so in fear of her life? She could've easily just hopped in her Mercedes and driven across the county border to talk to another judge. So...why wait? Oh and yeah, those weren't rhetorical questions.

(at this point, I'm beginning to think that you're just pulling stuff out of thin air to continue to argue to add pages, and therefore points, to your thread.)

reply to post by alysha.angel

she prob stole cash and lied to her parents about everything so in this case maybe the beating was needed

probably?

so, you think there are situations where you really should beat your child?

Tara grew up thinking that spankings or a smack on the arm were normal punishments for breaking a plate or playing her music too loudly. She never knew what would set her father off, and her mother never intervened, so she did her best to avoid him, walking on eggshells whenever he was around.

"It wasn't until I grew older and was out from under my parents' roof that I learned it wasn't the norm," said Tara, a 34-year-old public relations consultant in Phoenix. She asked that her last name not be used because she no longer talks to her father and fears drawing his attention.

"I think my father truly didn't care enough to 'teach' me how to be, but instead would try to knock undesirable behaviors out of me."

"There is evidence that child abuse changes brain function in areas related to processing threat. Chronic stress can lead to imbalance of the autonomic nervous system," she said, referencing the Adverse Childhood Experiences Study, a collaboration between the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and Kaiser Permanente.

Such an imbalance can distort one's fight-or-flight perception, causing a tendency to overreact or magnify perceived threats, she said.

www.cnn.com...

this is what beating your kids really does - long term

read the whole article - this is just a drop in the bucket - but it's a start as far as looking at what really happens in situations like this

kids are looking for you to teach them - guide them - to love them, accept them and protect them

as I said just a bit ago - if she had done something really and truly wrong - and if she absolutely couldn't be taught any other way - letting the law handle it would have been one good way to drive the lesson home

but that would be public - not private - like a beating

when I was a kid - I took some candy from a bin and put it in my pocket

my mom saw it - took me to the officer guarding the store - and told him what I did

I was horrified :-)

he explained that stealing was wrong - and that I could go to prison if I did it again

I didn't ever do it again

thanks Mom

:-)

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Wait a minute...
You say over and over that you don't care about the other details of this story, and yet now you're using examples from other situations to argue over?
I'm going to go ahead and call you out on that.
That's a foul right there.
This is what I mean about you not having a leg to stand on here.
You ignore crucial facts and yet you submit irrelavent facts.
How do you honestly think this will help your argument?

reply to post by Matthew Dark

In your opinion...why would the kid wait 7 years to release the video? What motivation could she possibly have to keep something like that under wraps for so long if she was so in fear of her life?

did you see the interview she gave the Today Show? the link I posted after you said her father was the only one speaking to the media? She's pretty articulate - I imagine she was just as smart when she was 16 - but living under her dad's roof

I'll tell you what - I might have done the same thing if I'd been in her shoes. She was living with that - why would she not want the world to see it? You think scars like that just disappear? The anger? The pain?

You keep saying you work in the system - work with troubled kids - gotta say - I don't hear much of a child's advocate in the things you keep saying. You seem to think that she had no good reason other than blackmail

that really would be petty - wouldn't it?

well - revenge is ugly - but understandable

7 years - why 7 - and not the lesser amount of time? The amount that would have let him actually be charged with a crime?

Like I said - she's a smart girl - young woman now. And compassionate - considering

Why don't you listen to her speak in her own words?

She could've easily just hopped in her Mercedes and driven across the county border to talk to another judge. So...why wait? Oh and yeah, those weren't rhetorical questions.

you're really hung up on the money angle - aren't you?

(at this point, I'm beginning to think that you're just pulling stuff out of thin air to continue to argue to add pages, and therefore points, to your thread.)

it's not my thread, dude

:-)

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Oh so now you're commenting about you perceiving my inability to adequately do my job, eh?
So, because I'm not diving to the feet of this young woman I'm not much of an advocate?
Tell you what...when you do what I do for a living, you learn to look for fact and not think with your heart...that's a grievous ethical issue and can get lots of people into trouble.
Not your thread...yeah I realized that and that part was my mistake.
Yes, I'm hung up on the money factor because that's the stated reason why the girl released the video in the first place.
You might've done the same thing?
Well I can hardly be held responsible for your lack of initiative. I personally would've marched right into the police station that night with the evidence.
It's not like I haven't had to do something similar before. But, this isn't about me...it's about getting to the facts behind this incident. Facts that you seem to want to ignore.
This girl has had every opportunity to turn her dad in (and she should've immediately). However, she chose not to because she didn't want to inccur his wrath (understandable...to a point) AND she didn't want to give up the relatively oppulent lifestyle she'd been accustomed to (see: Greed). And this isn't about my personal opinion (which was that it's none of our business in the first place, it's an issue for the law) anyways.
So because I refuse to give up my stance, I'm unfit to advocate.
Is that basically what you're telling me?
Because should that be the case, then you're making a serious judgment without a vast majority of facts (which seems to be your M.O.)

reply to post by Matthew Dark

Oh so now you're commenting about you perceiving my inability to adequately do my job, eh?

well - not exactly...

I'm just struck by your leaning towards supporting the father - and not the girl - based on what?

you keep saying you go by the facts - but you haven't

which facts - and which are provable - you see?

it's your opinion - that's all

when you can prove your facts you can call them facts

the video is obvious

I apologize - in any case. I don't actually know you - so, that was out of line

I guess I have no real idea why you defend him over her - I shouldn't speculate

The guy is a bully and what we see on the video is child abuse... why are people still defending this crap?


I posted this a few pages back....

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I don't see how anyone can defend his actions?


If you;re going to hit your kid (and you really shouldn't) then just slap them once... that was a prolonged and sustained assault on a defenceless young girl.

Just ridiculous that people can say "so what?"

Originally posted by Matthew Dark

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis


but, we have the video...what story does the video show us?

Like every other video up here on ATS or anywhere else, it only shows part of the story.
And apparently...only part of the story is all you need to pass judgment.

When I see a father beat his kid for 7min with a belt all over her body; I think I can safely make a judgment call that
the father was abusive, enjoyed it to much, and should have been prosecuted after the incident for
felony child abuse.

Another judgment call I feel I can make is that those that make excuses for the father; might have some guilt and denial issues of their own.

reply to post by Matthew Dark


Nothing she did makes it ok for her Father to physically abuse her. What part of that don't you understand Mr Dark? You need to get your head checked bro. ~SheopleNation

Originally posted by Matthew Dark
reply to post by Spiramirabilis

 

Are you that intellectually stunted that you refused to acknowledge that the girl was openly blackmailing her father because he took away her Mercedes?
Who do you think you are telling all of us that we're wrong and you're right?
First, the girl was stealing.
Secondly, she was blackmailing her father.
Both of which I'm pretty sure are actual crimes.
She's lucky that she got off with that instead of her father having her arrested and sitting in front of another judge.
I'd pick a slap-around over getting arrested any day of the week.
And, I'd wager that this isn't the first time this girl has tried to get away with something like this.
Have you noticed that the guy spoke to the press but the kid hasn't?
That right there basically says that she knows that she's doing this out of spite and again, I'd hazard this isn't an isolated incident.
Are you there at the house seeing what else goes on?
No, doubtful you are.
You spit out how bad we are for disagreeing with you but your whole argument is a joke.
You haven't got a leg to stand on here.
Plus you and a few others engage in ad hominem attacks on posters rather than content which also reduces the legitimacy of your arguments.
Pathetic.

Are you justifying this child bashers actions. Are you so short sighted you think this thuggery only occurs in his daughters bedroom.
Are you so naive that you cant see the nature of this man in his WHOLE life is on display.
People dont act like that as one OFF occurrences. This bloke is deranged.
If this action is accepted everyday in every home what would the ramifications be?
If this young girl deserve that sort of punishment, THEN what do you deserve. I GUARANTEE your life and actions are no better if not far worse, than hers.
Unbelievable.
Whats worse, he who commits, or he who justifies?

Wow. That is all I have to say. I could never do this to my son- ever. From the video parts that I did see is that it was about a computer and games. Here is a solution, take that darn computer away for a while (even if she needs to have it gone til she moves out). There is no excuse for such abuse, and yes it became abuse.