Why Vets Hate Kerry, by Vet Oliver North

Here's a little synopsis of the reasons why a vet might dislike Kerry:

Testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, April 22, 1971: "In our opinion, and from our experience, there is nothing in South Vietnam, nothing which could happen that realistically threatens the United States of America. And to attempt to justify the loss of one American life in Vietnam, Cambodia, or Laos by linking such loss to the preservation of freedom, which those misfits supposedly abuse, is to us the height of criminal hypocrisy, and it is that kind of hypocrisy which we feel has torn this country apart...."

Speech to DNC, July 29, 2004: "I defended this country as a young man and I will defend it as President. Let there be no mistake: I will never hesitate to use force when it is required."


How can you defend the country against a non-existent threat?

****

1998: Kerry Willing To Commit Ground Troops In Iraq. KERRY: "I think there is a disconnect between the depth of the threat that Saddam Hussein presents to the world and what we are at the moment talking about doing. ... [T]hen we have to be prepared to go the full distance, which is to do everything possible to disrupt his regime and to encourage the forces of democracy." ABC�S COKIE ROBERTS: "And does that mean ground troops in Iraq?" KERRY: "I am personally prepared, if that�s what it meant." (ABC�s "This Week," 2/22/98)

2002: Kerry Agrees With Goal Of Regime Change In Iraq. "I agree completely with this Administration�s goal of a regime change in Iraq ..." (Sen. John Kerry, Speech To The 2002 DLC National Conversation, New York, NY, 7/29/02)

2003: Kerry Said Iraq Resolution "Did Not Empower President To Do Regime Change." KERRY: "And the fact is, in the resolution that we passed, we did not empower the President to do regime change." (NBC�s "Meet The Press," 8/31/03)

*****

LOS ANGELES TIMES� DOYLE McMANUS: "If that amendment does not pass, will you then vote against the $87 billion?" (CBS� "Face The Nation," 9/14/03)

KERRY: "I don�t think any United States senator is going to abandon our troops and recklessly leave Iraq to whatever follows as a result of simply cutting and running. That�s irresponsible. What is responsible is for the administration to do this properly now. And I am laying out the way in which the administration could unite the American people, could bring other countries to the table, and I think could give the American people a sense that they�re on the right track. There�s a way to do this properly. But I don�t think anyone in the Congress is going to not give our troops ammunition, not give our troops the ability to be able to defend themselves. We�re not going to cut and run and not do the job." (CBS� "Face The Nation," 9/14/03)

2004: Kerry "Proud" He And Edwards Voted Against $87 Billion Supplemental. KERRY: "I�m proud to say that John [Edwards] joined me in voting against that $87 billion..." (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At "Women�s Voices: A Luncheon with John Kerry," Boston, MA, 7/12/04)

Speech to DNC, July 29, 2004: "You don't value families if you force them to take up a collection to buy body armour for a son or daughter in the service...."

www.airliners.net...

Originally posted by curme
I'll tell you a funny story about vets and Kerry...So the In an unofficial poll that I've taken, vets support Kerry!

That should be a reliable poll.

Anyone else have any "personal" poll results they'd like to share?

In my personal poll, i have Bush winning by 80-20, but i live in Texas...yeeee ha!!

People who go on and on about Kerry's "anti military" voting record really disturb me.
Dont you realize this is republican propaganda and misinformation. Just because people repeat something over and over again doesnt make it true.
The republicans released a list of weapons systems kerry supposedly voted against in his years as Senator. Did you know that these werent a series of votes spread over the years but a single vote on a 1991 pentagon appropriations bill? Did you know that even deeper cuts in military spending were at the time being advocated by some prominent Republicans including (surprise surprise) then secretary of defence Dick Cheney.
GOP Rhetoric on Kerry's Voting Record

Originally posted by boogyman
The republicans released a list of weapons systems kerry supposedly voted against in his years as Senator. Did you know that these werent a series of votes spread over the years but a single vote on a 1991 pentagon appropriations bill? Did you know that even deeper cuts in military spending were at the time being advocated by some prominent Republicans including (surprise surprise) then secretary of defence Dick Cheney.
GOP Rhetoric on Kerry's Voting Record

This is all political mud-slinging and has nothing to do with why veterans hate Kerry.

Thanks for offering some balance to the debate.

Originally posted by groingrinder
There are thousands of criminals doing life sentences in American prisons who did far less than Oliver North. What is so courageous and patriotic about importing coc aine into the United States??

Exactly. There is nothing courageous about importing coc aine into the United States. It's criminal. So don't tell me Intelearthling that I'll never be half the man he is. In fact he'll never be half the man I am. I've never used any drugs or had any affiliation with them whatsoever.

[edit on 7-9-2004 by mrmulder]

Originally posted by boogyman
Did you know that these werent a series of votes spread over the years but a single vote on a 1991 pentagon appropriations bill?

Sounds to me like Kerry should not have voted against if he planned on campaigning as a strong militray leader. Who is the moron running Kerry's campaign?

Veterans who hate Kerry seem to display many reasons for their hatred of Kerry, including the fact that he is protrayed as antimilitary so my post is not at all off topic. The information I provided is no more political mudslinging then any of the other posts on this thread and is actually verifiable which is more then I can say about most of the anti Kerry posts on this thread.

Plus if you really want to argue semantics this thread isnt even about why some veterans hate Kerry this is about a letter oliver North is supposed to have written blasting Kerry.

Originally posted by boogyman
Veterans who hate Kerry seem to display many reasons for their hatred of Kerry, including the fact that he is protrayed as antimilitary so my post is not at all off topic.

I think you're responding to me, boogyman. I didn't say your post was off-topic. I just said that those veterans who like myself, disrespect Kerry, do so for what he did in 1971, not what he did in Vietnam or what he voted for or against in the Senate.

The wrangling over his voting record is just the typical mudslinging that goes on in an election. It may be wrong; it may be right. Vietnam veterans dislike Kerry because he stabbed us in the back and betrayed his nation.

I think his betrayal is debatable some people would view his statements as a positive thing but I can appreciate your opinion as a vietnam veteran:

I only really have problems with the people who just mouth of about things theyve heard repeated on the television with out actually looking into the facts behind the rhetoric and even when you give them evidence to the contrary they just steamroll past it with out even noticing.

Originally posted by boogyman
I only really have problems with the people who just mouth of about things theyve heard repeated on the television with out actually looking into the facts behind the rhetoric and even when you give them evidence to the contrary they just steamroll past it with out even noticing.

If you are calling anything from the link that you posted fact then I find that ha ha funny

Uniquely, FAIR works with both activists and journalists

That is not the definition of a fact dealer, that is the definition of a propagandist organization. Half truth, half lie. And I didn�t find anything in there refuting what he said about his conduct regarding anti-war dealings�.at least Jane Fonda had the intelligence to apologize for the damage she�s done.
I find it particularly interesting that there are several links to video of John Kerry actually saying these things��and you somehow think that is deceptive and yet to show the �facts� you link a propagandist website�interesting.

Oliver North represents one thing and one thing only... himself. The man is a convicted liar and a piece of garbage. I cannot have much faith in what any vet says that supports him. Gee.. "I support a man convicted of lying to congress" lol. Yeah.. that gives these hand full of vets total credibility. Who cares. You have a convicted liar in North and a womanizer and sexual harasser in Arnold supporting Bush. Yeah thats some good stuff to have on your side. Course we can't forget the threats made of a terrorist attack by Cheney if we don't vote for him and Bush.

Originally posted by Jemison
You can question the credibility of Oliver North all you want. It does not change the fact that his letter DOES represent the thoughts and feelings of many Vietnam Vets as well as many of our fine young soldiers that have in the past and are currently risking their lives for our Country.
Rather than trash the author of the letter, why not address the content of the letter. If Kerry (and his followers) would start to address some of the issues that come up rather than just whine about how people are trying to smear his name it would be much more effective.
If the only defense Kerry has is returning fire and pointing out the faults of the other guys it doesn't make him look any better than the other guy and in fact, it makes him look much worse.

Originally posted by Indy
.............The man is a convicted liar and a piece of garbage. I cannot have much faith in what any vet says that supports him. Gee.. "I support a man convicted of lying to congress" lol. Yeah.. that gives these hand full of vets total credibility. Who cares. You have a convicted liar in North and a womanizer and sexual harasser in Arnold supporting Bush.........

Not that I support bush...but seeing as you had all of the above in clinton by himself what was you�re your position on Clinton?

Originally posted by AntiPolitrix
If you are like me, you believe John Kerry never should of used his Vietnam Service as a center piece to his campaign but i am glad he did. It seems to be the worst thing he could of done.

This was e-mailed to me so i don't have a link but it is good to hear how other Vietnam Vets feel about Kerry and why.

-----------------------------------------
Bring it on, John
Oliver North

August 27, 2004

"Of course, the president keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: 'Bring it on.'" -- Sen. John Kerry
----------------------------------------
Dear John,

As usual, you have it wrong. You don't have a beef with President George Bush about your war record. He's been exceedingly generous about your military service. Your complaint is with the 2.5 million of us who served honorably in a war that ended 29 years ago and which you, not the president, made the centerpiece of this campaign.

I talk to a lot of vets, John, and this really isn't about your medals or how you got them. Like you, I have a Silver Star and a Bronze Star. I only have two Purple Hearts, though. I turned down the others so that I could stay with the Marines in my rifle platoon. But I think you might agree with me, though I've never heard you say it, that the officers always got more medals than they earned and the youngsters we led never got as many medals as they deserved.

This really isn't about how early you came home from that war, either, John. There have always been guys in every war who want to go home. There are also lots of guys, like those in my rifle platoon in Vietnam, who did a full 13 months in the field. And there are, thankfully, lots of young Americans today in Iraq and Afghanistan who volunteered to return to war because, as one of them told me in Ramadi a few weeks ago, "the job isn't finished."

Nor is this about whether you were in Cambodia on Christmas Eve, 1968. Heck John, people get lost going on vacation. If you got lost, just say so. Your campaign has admitted that you now know that you really weren't in Cambodia that night and that Richard Nixon wasn't really president when you thought he was. Now would be a good time to explain to us how you could have all that bogus stuff "seared" into your memory -- especially since you want to have your finger on our nation's nuclear trigger.

But that's not really the problem, either. The trouble you're having, John, isn't about your medals or coming home early or getting lost -- or even Richard Nixon. The issue is what you did to us when you came home, John.

When you got home, you co-founded Vietnam Veterans Against the War and wrote "The New Soldier," which denounced those of us who served -- and were still serving -- on the battlefields of a thankless war. Worst of all, John, you then accused me -- and all of us who served in Vietnam -- of committing terrible crimes and atrocities.

On April 22, 1971, under oath, you told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that you had knowledge that American troops "had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam."

And you admitted on television that "yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed." And for good measure you stated, "(America is) more guilty than any other body, of violations of (the) Geneva Conventions ... the torture of prisoners, the killing of prisoners."

Your "antiwar" statements and activities were painful for those of us carrying the scars of Vietnam and trying to move on with our lives. And for those who were still there, it was even more hurtful. But those who suffered the most from what you said and did were the hundreds of American prisoners of war being held by Hanoi. Here's what some of them endured because of you, John:

Capt. James Warner had already spent four years in Vietnamese custody when he was handed a copy of your testimony by his captors. Warner
says that for his captors, your statements "were proof I deserved to be punished." He wasn't released until March 14, 1973.

Maj. Kenneth Cordier, an Air Force pilot who was in Vietnamese custody for 2,284 days, says his captors "repeated incessantly" your
one-liner about being "the last man to die" for a lost cause. Cordier was released March 4, 1973.

Navy Lt. Paul Galanti says your accusations "were as demoralizing as solitary (confinement) ... and a prime reason the war dragged on." He remained in North Vietnamese hands until February 12, 1973.

John, did you think they would forget? When Tim Russert asked about your claim that you and others in Vietnam committed "atrocities," instead of standing by your sworn testimony, you confessed that your words "were a bit over the top." Does that mean you lied under oath? Or does it mean you are a war criminal? You can't have this one both
ways, John. Either way, you're not fit to be a prison guard at Abu Ghraib, much less commander in chief.

One last thing, John. In 1988, Jane Fonda said: "I would like to say something ... to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm ... very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families."

Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?
--------------------------------------------------

He has gone too far to turn back now, Kerry is done. G.W. 2004

My father is a Retired USN Captain, and Brevedere Commodore. The whole "Swift Boat" accusations people just started hearing a month ago, he has known about for a while. It's widespread knowledge amongst his fellow sailors, and I thus I know the ads are not based off a pure political agenda. If u want a copy of the original accusations, I'll be more than glad to post the memo.

Originally posted by Indy
Oliver North represents one thing and one thing only... himself. The man is a convicted liar and a piece of garbage. I cannot have much faith in what any vet says that supports him. Gee.. "I support a man convicted of lying to congress" lol. Yeah.. that gives these hand full of vets total credibility. Who cares. You have a convicted liar in North and a womanizer and sexual harasser in Arnold supporting Bush. Yeah thats some good stuff to have on your side. Course we can't forget the threats made of a terrorist attack by Cheney if we don't vote for him and Bush.

Nothing Oliver North has ever done mitigates what John Kerry did. Nothing Oliver North did is as bad as what John Kerry did. North took the fall for the actions of the government in the fight against communism in Latin America.

As far as I'm concerned North has never done anyting that could be even remotely related to treason. As far as I'm concerned he's as honorable man. He's got the guts to own up to what he has done. Does Kerry?

You people actually look at Oliver North as a hero?!

My god thats twisted.
The man was involved in the sale of weapons to Iran a known enemy of America to support the overthrow of a democratically elected south american government. You people see nothing wrong with this? Even if he was the fall guy that does make his actions justified. Kerry's opposition to a pointless war is more "traitorous" then actually supplying weapons to America's enemies?
What kind of twisted world do you live in?
I'm leaving you "patriots" and your pointless thread alone.
Talking here is pointless
Debating here is pointless
You guys are in your own little world where unfortunately logic intrudes all to rarely.
Bye

Originally posted by boogyman
I'm leaving you "patriots" and your pointless thread alone.
Talking here is pointless
Debating here is pointless

So pointless you went through the trouble of replying. I havn't heard you debate ANYTHING so i am not sure what you are talking about. Set you hatred aside 'boogyman' and listen to the facts before you just discredit something he says. That is the problem with you people, you have your mind made up and the FACTS don't even change your mind. Maybe you should leave the thread. Bye

Originally posted by AntiPolitrix

Originally posted by boogyman
I'm leaving you "patriots" and your pointless thread alone.
Talking here is pointless
Debating here is pointless

So pointless you went through the trouble of replying. I havn't heard you debate ANYTHING so i am not sure what you are talking about. Set you hatred aside 'boogyman' and listen to the facts before you just discredit something he says. That is the problem with you people, you have your mind made up and the FACTS don't even change your mind. Maybe you should leave the thread. Bye

Boogeyman is right. Antipolitrix, why don't you acquaint yourself with the facts about the supposed "patriot" North? How anyone can compare this man, convicted of lying to Congress to cover his own ass, to Kerry is beyond me. He helped spread crack coc aine throughout the black community in order to raise money for arms to sell Iran. Talk about class conflict, Grady, this guy has done more to exacerbate such than Kerry ever could.

www.gwu.edu...

www.gwu.edu...

www.fas.org...

-koji K.

Originally posted by koji_K
������.. why don't you acquaint yourself with the facts about the supposed "patriot" North? How anyone can compare this man, convicted of lying to Congress to cover his own ass, to Kerry is beyond me����..

coming from a supporter of the democrats that is just , so tell me what do you think of clinton?

Originally posted by koji_K
How anyone can compare this man, convicted of lying to Congress to cover his own ass, to Kerry is beyond me.

Contrition and accountability are the differences between Kerry and North.
I went through a period of disgust for North, but I think he has paid the price for his sins. He does a great service to America, now and I think that taking his life in its totality he is a great American. I can tell you this. No Marine wears an award the doesn't rate and North turned down Purple Hearts to remain with his men.

Whatever else he may have done he was a warrior in the war against communism throughout his military career. That is worthy of honor, in itself.

Originally posted by keholmes

Originally posted by koji_K
������.. why don't you acquaint yourself with the facts about the supposed "patriot" North? How anyone can compare this man, convicted of lying to Congress to cover his own ass, to Kerry is beyond me����..

coming from a supporter of the democrats that is just

, so tell me what do you think of clinton?

Clinton lying was a stupid thing to do, but I think the stakes were lower. What North was a part of affected many, many people. What Clinton did was between him, his family, and those involved. However, yes, I did think less of Clinton for lying, and believe he should have come clean from the start about his indiscretions.

-koji K.

[edit on 9-9-2004 by koji_K]