Hello, your argument is usless.

Hello ATS,

I've been lurking around for a couple of years. Like most people who lurk I really had no intention of joining, that is until I read a comment so blood boiling I could no longer resist the urge to throw in my 2 cents.

I have alot of internet finds I would love to share, however us noobs are restricted to introduction forums.If i may I would like to explain why arguing is utterly usless.

Argumentive theory of reasoning

We as humans are hard wired to win...not seek truth. We would rather have someone believe we are correct rather than actually be correct. Everyone is guilty of it, we are all hypocrites (different people = different levels of hypocrisy) You can present point blank fact, and someone will still oppose your finding.Evolutionist and creationist are the worst example of this pointless arguing. These people that start flame wars, don't even believe anything in your post from the word evolution (or creation) in the title, and only read it to try and prove an OZ. of whats presented wrong (using real facts or not).Then you have the real pot stirring people who have a title on a post like ''Why are evolutionists convinced we were not created?'' or ''real scientific proof of god''....seriously, no one has ever changed a core belief because someone on the internet posted a good argument. So next time you start a war over a comment, remember your letting the flame thrower win by leaving the important topic at hand to try and prove they are ignorant. Everything turns form furthering knowledge in a persons interest to fighting to defend knowledge we are already comfortable accepting, to someone who will never conform to your thinking anyway.
I just wish evolutionist would stick to evolution posts, and creationist would stick to creationist posts.You could learn so much more without useless arguments gumming up the flow of an intelligent conversation.

I am an evolutionist.....flame away, it won't change my opinion, furthermore bible passages (which has been revised, burned and revised again so many times, very little original materiel remains....also mistranslations) do not qualify as proof. (but hey, why try to prove it to me...I won't believe it from the word God anyway) Nothing against creationists....just hard core trolling creationists (yes, us evolutionists are just as guilty of this, remember we are hard wired to be hypocrites) I'll stay away from creationist posts if you all promise to stay out of evolutionist posts, unless a question to the opposing beliefs is stated, this is something both sides should (but won't) agree on regardless of belief system.


Scientific American

welcome aboard to ATS fellow evolutionist! I like your view on arguments, glad to have you on, and see you around.

Originally posted by PutAQuarterIn

We as humans are hard wired to win...not seek truth. We would rather have someone believe we are correct rather than actually be correct.

this was the best explanation of what keeps people ticking i ever heard ...excellent.

reply to post by PutAQuarterIn


Hello there, I must say that I whole heartedly agree with you. No matter how hard one tries, there is no real way to "win" an argument. I heard a saying the other day that went something like this - "one mans fiction is another mans truth".However, I am a creationist, but I have learned to respect other peoples views. Anyway, peace to you, and I look forward to seeing your contributions in the future.

Yeah, you are absolutely right. Especially against the Shills and Trolls on here!!

We are Rigel4........... You'll make an excellent drone!

Resistance is futile

While I have to agree that we all come to any argument with an arm full of biases, I can't support the idea that arguments are useless...ie. that people's minds can't be changed, so don't try (not that I expect you to accept this...lol).

The whole point of learning the skills associated with winning arguments, is to win. And some are quite skilled at winning arguments (let's call them, informed discussions)...which at least in part involves changing people's views.

Some of the things that should be kept in mind:

1) There is a continuum of assertiveness. More assertive people can and do wear down less assertive ones.
2) There are leaders, and there are followers. Followers tend to seek out those who "know", and can provide them with "guidance". Just ask any cult leader...
3) Some people like to learn, but they prefer others to do all the the work for them. This saves them a lot of time...but it means they are predisposed to accept others' arguments of "fact".

While I certainly understand that it can be difficult to get people to let go of their ideas and beliefs...it is possible to do so. How many people have begun talking to a salesman thinking "I will not buy anything", only to find they are going home home with something...I dare say, almost all of us.

welcome

good luck

I gonna argue against luckers

piss off, away offf

silly old fools.

reply to post by mobiusmale


mobiusmale, you have a good point. I should have noted there is an exception to every rule, but generally people won't accept a new idea that contradicts previous beliefs.

viritus1, kudos, thats the terms of agreement we should see more of.

reply to post by PutAQuarterIn

I am a Christian and I thought it was a very good article ... thanks.

(Btw I don't thing creationists or evolutionists are right.)

Your introduction made me think of THIS article from cracked.com.

I was going to try to find a way to bring it to the attention of ATS, but really don't have anything to add, as the writer pretty much sums it up (in two pages.)

Enjoy!

Oh, and yes, this is why so many people choose to stay lurkers. We know we crazy, we just trying to keep it at bay.

Welcome

reply to post by ElizaAshdene

Your introduction made me think of THIS article from cracked.com. I was going to try to find a way to bring it to the attention of ATS, but really don't have anything to add, as the writer pretty much sums it up (in two pages.)

I love cracked! Anytime i read anything on ats, and this same thought hit me (What I summed it up in OP, I had actually been trying to word it simple enough to use as a signature) As luck would have it the article this morning put scientific study (at least the name of a scientific study) to what I've felt so long. They are hilarious, so it keeps your interest.If only school systems gave lectures a comedic twist, like these authors, knowledge would be way up and , drop-out rates way down.
I'll check their sources before I lend them creditability, but they almost always check out.I don't really feel comfortable not posting sources on here, the only reason I haven't linked cracked yet, is there have been a few (very,very miniscule) pieces of misinformation.Never an entire article, usually just a statement.(An example would be repeated incidence of lumping Anastasia into Disney movie category. I will admit, nit-picking on this.) Also some is based on opinion and (as their comments section will let you know) satire is wasted on most.

I think I might start linking cracked at the beginning of every post that drew inspiration from them, as an ''easy read'' source, as well as creditable sources on each find, for argumentative types to check....yes,yes I DO realize the irony in that last statement, but it's one less aspect to criticize when in war-of-words.

Welcome to Ats.

Take care and hope to see you around the boards

reply to post by PutAQuarterIn


Good job man, and welcome to the site. Are you a psychology major?

Either way, I'm glad you decided to join, we can always use another level head, instead of the ever spawning poop throwers.

PutAQuarterIn

Welcome to ATS..Hope you like it here

So is that you're opening argument? Just kidding... welcome to ATS.

reply to post by PutAQuarterIn


OK Put,

Firstly, if humans are only hardwired to win and not to seek the truth - why do you think so many people have sought and found the truth over the centuries?

For example, eveyone said the earth was flat, but brave men sought the truth and found it.

I could cite many examples.

How do you think humanity has advanced if people only wanted to win?

If people only wanted to win, we would still be cavemen, killing each other (OK, so, we are still cavemen, killing each other) but we have knowledge why? Because brave people sought the truth.

Originally posted by catwhoknowsplusone
reply to post by PutAQuarterIn

 

OK Put,

Firstly, if humans are only hardwired to win and not to seek the truth - why do you think so many people have sought and found the truth over the centuries?

For example, eveyone said the earth was flat, but brave men sought the truth and found it.

I could cite many examples.

How do you think humanity has advanced if people only wanted to win?

If people only wanted to win, we would still be cavemen, killing each other (OK, so, we are still cavemen, killing each other) but we have knowledge why? Because brave people sought the truth.

I said win, not blindly agree.I think these pioneers of science are an excellent example of what I ment because I imagine they looked at the world around them and said ''your wrong'' then dedicated their lives to proving someone (who was set enough in their ways at the specific time, Doomed to never believe)wrong. Hardly any of these pioneers got recognition in their life time, because to pose (at the time.) crazy ideas, people were prone not to believe unless they caught inconsistencies themselves.

Also I see where you were going with your flat earth analogy, but it's a bad example as the Eratosthenes were pretty sure (based on the moon and sun being round) the earth was spherical, long before anyone attempted to sail over the non existent edge. Source

Regardless of facts, truth means different things to different people, and my entire point is people will defend these ''truths'' no matter how good the opposing argument presents itself.