I need a doctor to debunk this - behavioral and psychological issues of unaware survivor twins, page 1

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Topic started on 1-11-2011 @ 03:37 PM by Zagari

Althea Hayton, expert of Vanishing Twin Syndrome psychological effects on the survivors, claims that 1 of 8 of pregnancies started as twins.
Also, that unaware survivor twins, that were born as singleton and as such, are believed to be singleton, develop during infancy and life, some behavioral and psychological issues like anorexia, depression, and such things, that can be linked to the loss of their twin in the womb.
Some survivors even claim that they remember things which happened in the womb, and this is scientifically impossible.

I would like to have a doctor expert in pregnancies that could post some sources to debunk the possibility for survivors twins whose parents are unaware of their loss of a twin, to actually develop such issues.
I want to be said that the percentage for survivors twins is not 1 of 8, because that would mean they are everywhere.

Vanishing Twin Syndrome may be a reality, but people who lost a twin CAN'T and SHOULDN'T develop depression issues even when unaware. They should be just fine, since they can't remember the trauma of loss.

I am afraid that that blog of Althea Hayton looks like a weird cult where people think they lost a twin, I've spoken with some members of the facebook group and some say their parents never thought they lost a twin, but they, as survivors , believe that. Could they be inventing things to solve their issues?

Is there some medically proven source about this issues for survivor twins?

Sorry for this thread, but I feel it is important

reply posted on 1-11-2011 @ 03:46 PM by Praetorius

reply to post by Zagari

Vanishing Twin Syndrome may be a reality, but people who lost a twin CAN'T and SHOULDN'T develop depression issues even when unaware. They should be just fine, since they can't remember the trauma of loss.

Some sort of quantum entanglement (or similar) effect at play, perhaps?

We don't know near as much as we think we should about the way the world works, friend...when you get right down to it, the more we know about things, the less sense they seem to make.

reply posted on 1-11-2011 @ 03:56 PM by Zagari

reply to post by Praetorius

I am sure psychologists would say that " memories of a twin loss " is a fantasy. I don't remember my life before the age of 10 without looking at pictures, how is it possible to remember a traumatic loss that occured in the womb?

These kind of issues may be related to a whole lot of other things, and that blog may be dangerous for people with a weak mind and a strong immagination...

Why there isn't more research about this possibility? In Italy is unheard of, the term for this syndrome doesn't even exist in Italian.

How can someone go to a therapist claiming " I remember how my twin died in the womb and I am traumatized by that? ". The therapist would think such person is nuts.

reply posted on 1-11-2011 @ 04:11 PM by Praetorius

reply to post by Zagari

If you'll notice the section I quoted, I'm not referring to any sort of conscious awareness - I was pointing at the unaware, non-memory lingering issues aspect of it, which I could see making sense if there were some sort of preternatural bond occurring (whether or not this actually occurs, I have no idea as I'd not even thought of this until I saw your thread, but if there ARE accounts of such psychological disturbance being attributed to a missing twin, I'm just looking for possible explanations).

Agreed, I can't see any way for their to be a conscious recalling one way or the other...I'd have to think for quite awhile to remember my youngest memory, but it would date at years, definitely not in-womb.

reply posted on 1-11-2011 @ 05:24 PM by Zagari

I found out an Italian world-renowned child neuropsychiatrist, Alessandra Piontelli that in 2002 debunked the possibility of the survivor twin to develop issues from the loss, denying that a unaware twin survivor will have issues.

reply posted on 1-11-2011 @ 05:39 PM by Thermo Klein

reply to post by Zagari

I am a Psychologist and can say there are many schools of Psychology that recognize that past events, even if not remembered, can affect our life very strongly! It's very frequent to find someone with anxiety, depression, numerous emotional and/or Psychological issues unravel "layer after layer of the onion" before they have that "aha" moment and remember some significant fact from their childhood that has been affecting them.

Concerning the actual phenomenon you discuss in the OP though, I don't know of any research on the 1 in 8 number and can't even imagine how it would be provable. In theory I think it could make some sense but statistically and scientifically can't be proven at all, and therefore irrelevant as an overall theory and should be discussed with a therapist in a one-to-one, or group, situation.

ETA:
The significant thing from their past could seem extremely insignificant on outer view; it depends on how the child perceived it at the time. For example a two-year-old left unattended while Mom or Dad are showering on ONE occassion might feel a sense of abandonment that carries far into the child's life. This is not common but is certainly out there.

edit on 1-11-2011 by Thermo Klein because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 1-11-2011 @ 05:50 PM by Zagari

reply to post by Zagari

I also found out another one that says the opposite: " Earlier the loss, stronger the post natal effects "...

reply posted on 1-11-2011 @ 05:53 PM by Zagari

reply to post by Thermo Klein

So, you are not aware of Vanishing Twin Syndrome that says 1 in 8 pregnancies are actually twins but they end up developing in singleton pregnancies?
What about pre-natal issues? Can a survivor twin get a trauma from losing the twin in the womb?

reply posted on 3-11-2011 @ 12:51 AM by Thermo Klein

Originally posted by Zagari
reply to post by Thermo Klein

So, you are not aware of Vanishing Twin Syndrome that says 1 in 8 pregnancies are actually twins but they end up developing in singleton pregnancies?
What about pre-natal issues? Can a survivor twin get a trauma from losing the twin in the womb?

I have never heard about the syndrome until yesterday on this thread (and I have six years of college in Psychology).

in Wombtwin blog they state "Wombtwin survivors started life as a twin (or multiple) in the womb but their twin (or multiple) died during pregnancy or near birth."

I imagine losing a twin could actually be a true cause of some issues, although I HIGHLY doubt it will be recognized by most mainstream therapists or found in the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistics Manual for Psychology).

In something like Humanistic Psychology or Transpersonal Psychology a therapist might be able to help ascertain if there's some guilt or memories related to the loss of a twin during childbirth or in late pregnancy. A baby that's eight months along would certainly have an amazing bond with a twin! It makes sense to me there could be some early depression, longing, confusion, etc.

By the way, I checked the DSM and couldn't find anything related to this phenomenon.

edit on 3-11-2011 by Thermo Klein because: typo

reply posted on 3-11-2011 @ 02:56 AM by SmokeyDawn

If a documentary I watched about twins who were separated at birth and had no knowledge of being a twin yet had
evolved remarkably similar to their twin (ie: similar careers, makes of cars, types of education, number of children and pets, appearance and even the names of their spouses!!) but nowhere in these studies did any twin even begin to think they were a twin till presented with the evidence!!
So why would a "survivor" twin hold such angst at the loss of HIS twin so early??

reply posted on 3-11-2011 @ 04:03 AM by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by Thermo Klein
reply to post by Zagari

I am a Psychologist and can say there are many schools of Psychology that recognize that past events, even if not remembered, can affect our life very strongly! It's very frequent to find someone with anxiety, depression, numerous emotional and/or Psychological issues unravel "layer after layer of the onion" before they have that "aha" moment and remember some significant fact from their childhood that has been affecting them.

Concerning the actual phenomenon you discuss in the OP though, I don't know of any research on the 1 in 8 number and can't even imagine how it would be provable. In theory I think it could make some sense but statistically and scientifically can't be proven at all, and therefore irrelevant as an overall theory and should be discussed with a therapist in a one-to-one, or group, situation.

ETA:
The significant thing from their past could seem extremely insignificant on outer view; it depends on how the child perceived it at the time. For example a two-year-old left unattended while Mom or Dad are showering on ONE occassion might feel a sense of abandonment that carries far into the child's life. This is not common but is certainly out there.

edit on 1-11-2011 by Thermo Klein because: (no reason given)

There are many schools of Psychology, yours is but one. I have a degree in Psychology as well, here is something to ponder. Does it matter if that moment is what created the sense of abandonment, or is it only important that THEY are able to prescribe the feelings to that moment and then work through it. Perhaps what the actual moment, or if there even is a moment, is irrelevant, and the only thing that matters is their belief in it so that they can work through it.

reply posted on 3-11-2011 @ 04:05 AM by OccamsRazor04

In reply to the actual thread, I believe there are cases where one twin "absorbs" the other (1 in 8 is highly speculative and incorrect I believe), I can see this leading to possible depression and other diagnosis down the road due to chemical imbalances. I would certainly not prescribe any diagnosis to this survivor twin syndrome, and having read the article myself I saw a severe lack of evidence. It's something that can be researched further, as of yet I am not impressed.

reply posted on 4-11-2011 @ 01:48 PM by Thermo Klein

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

There are really too many variables to make an overall statement on this, in my opinion. The surviving twin might miss the other twin but be too young to understand it, nevertheless the "missing" could create an ongoing sense of loss. If that's the case your scenario would work just fine: the "moment" would be irrelevant.

Depending on the state of the pregnancy the child may have lost a comfort and security if the other twin is lost...

It really is something that can't be pinned down and should be looked at in a holistic, behavioral way later in life. I imagine for most people it wouldn't make any difference at all. I agree with your thought that 1 in 8 is not valid and seems way off.

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 12:12 AM by UdderlyInsane

I am currently studying polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) and CAM treatments (I am not a doctor just a student). While reading clinical research and literary reviews I began to wonder if this condition could be caused by the absorption of a twin. I have yet to find any information related to research in this area specifically. If it is possible to have chemical variations due to twin absorption creating PCOS, it may very well be possible that the individual's physiological disturbances are also a result of such a thing.

Good luck and I hope you find what you are looking for. If I come across anything near concrete I will post it to you.

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