Israel about to launch major attack against Gaza

If you were standing in the kibbutz and looking at Gaza, what would this view look like to you?

I'm not talking down south near Egypt, but up north where I was (very close to the ancient town of Askelon).

My daily life on the kibbutz involved a few hours in the chicken pens (I refused to work in the egg storage because of exploding eggs, they're noxious, or in the hatchery because i found that throwing mutated chicks out of a window into a container to die in the heat barbaric) and then the rest of the day chilling out with other volunteers, drinking arak or Russian vodka and listening to music around a campfire. W eearned 5 or 6 shekels a day and that was enough for a botttle and a packet of cheap arab cigarettes.
We got fleas and mites and we had a real snake problem. (The kibbutzniks would also probably remember me because i used to hunt, skin and eat snakes, particularly the Zephyr. I made bracelets from their skins.) I even found a baby jackal and cleaned off its ticks and fleas and tried to keep it as a pet but i dscovered that they'd shot it when i was at work.

Gaza just had a fence back then and all the volunteers used to sneak in. This was a major area of questioning when we left at Ben Gurion. One girl, pregnant, had to undergo an extremely long and terrifying questioning ordeal because she made the mistake of answering 'yes' when asked whether she'd met and spoken to Palestinians. They were sometimes allowed out to earn pennies on the kibbutz.

Mate, it was one of the happiest times of my life and i've had many, many adventures since around the world.
Never call me a liar. I have no reason to.

Originally posted by Aestheteka
reply to post by OldCorp

 

Here's a video you might like -

What have I ever said that might make you think I LIKE seeing dead children? Why do you think I hate Hamas so much? It is because they are indiscriminate in their use of terror. If they were to take the fight to the IDF, I would have great respect for them even though I disagree with them. I respect anyone who stands up and fights, giving their own life for something they believe in; Hamas does NOT fall into that category. They are scum, vermin, and need to be eradicated.

Here is the root cause of the deaths of those poor children.

For those of you unfamiliar with Gaza, it bears a remarkable similarity to the Warsaw ghetto. It's basically a city with what was once farmland which has been walled in and now relies completely on Israel for its utilities and food. Sometimes, Israel decides to switch off the power or stop the food (for example, this is the reason for the aid flotilla because of Israel's embargo on Gaza).
Imagine being locked inside a compound full of rubble?

For those of you who believe this, I respond thusly.





I have no doubt that there are indeed areas of Gaza that look like a warzone, but the entire area is NOT like that. Palestinians regularly use the media as a propaganda tool; it's called Pallywood. In order for a journalist to be allowed entrance into Gaza, he/she must be approved by Hamas, and there is always a "minder" with them to keep them from seeing or reporting anything Hamas doesn't want the outside world to see.

So no, I've never been there to see firsthand what is going on; but logic dictates that if things are as bad as Hamas and pro-Palestinian people say they are, if there really is a food shortage, if the entire landscape is laid waste; then the videos I posted should not exist. And if it is only "rich" Gazans that enjoy top rate shopping malls and luxury restaurants, what does that say about Hamas; that they get fat and enjoy the best life has to offer while allowing their fellows to starve and live in mud huts.

Originally posted by Aestheteka
reply to post by OldCorp

 

OldCorps, I'm not attacking you personally, I just hate seeing such nonsense propaganda. I went to Israel completely pro-Israeli and left very, very confused by what I'd seen and experienced. I sincerely hope that you visit there one day (not the religious tour to Jerusalem, but to the places you report on) and make your own mind up without the aid of other sources (including mine).
That's all I hope for for anyone - to not believe everything you're told and instead go find out for yourself.

I appreciate the first sentence. Thank you. But if we were to believe that things in Gaza are as bad as Hamas would like to portray, then we fail when it comes to the ATS motto: Deny Ignorance.

I would very much like to go to Israel to see the situation on the ground firsthand. If I did, and was allowed to go anywhere I wished, then I would report the truth no matter who it makes look bad; but I seriously doubt that Hamas would allow that.

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by OldCorp

Originally posted by Vitchilo
For god's sake man, are you so blinded by your irrational fury and alienating xenophobia that you'll happily accept the loss of women and children being killed by indiscriminate bombings and white phosphor attacks, cluster bombs and landmines, yet you'll say this is tolerable because a hand-full of uncontrolable idiots are ignoring their democratically elected leaders and causing unrest.

What you have just said is sickening. Think about what you say.

Man, you don't know me at all. The loss of innocent life - Jewish and Muslim - is what infuriates me, and that is neither irrational nor xenophobic. Israel's attacks are hardly indiscriminate, they are pinpoint accurate; unlike Hamas which regularly and specifically target civilians. FFS, what other nation in the world besides Israel sends text messages and radio broadcasts announcing what their next target is so that civilians have time to evacuate? NONE.

Brother, they have really pulled the wool over your eyes. Wake up.

This video shows how Palestinians lie about the facts in Gaza in order to present themselves as the victims. Watch as this Hamas spokeswoman, lying her ass off, gets totally OWNED by the Fox anchor.

Originally posted by Rook1545

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Kinda throws out the whole "Allah is surely merciful" they like to spout whenever they get accused of being genocidal. So when is Allah supposed to be merciful? Before or after youre dead?

6th commandment (Torah, Old Testament) "You shall not murder"
Man i guess they missed that one, seemed to have missed a few others too. They claim they believe in Jesus Christ but i can swear in none of Christ's teachings did i ever read about murdering anyone. Theyre more like Barabas than Yeshua.

Precisely why Muhammad had to come up with his own version through the Qur'an of who God and Jesus Christ were.

You guys make me giggle. The EXACT same thing can be said about Christians, and Jews. How many people throughout history have been murdered in Christ's name? And we keep doing it.

There is no defense for anyone, of any religion, using their beliefs as a sheild for killing other people. Both sides are guilty of doing it, so don't play the blame game.

Ahem. Catholicism is not christianity, there is a huge difference. You can clearly tell who follows Jesus Christ by their actions. You see what the catholics have done in the crusades and the spanish inquisition and you go and blame the true christians for what the psuedos have done in our Lord's name as they blatantly disobey his commands. There are the teachings of Christ and then there are the teachings of men who sit on thrones and pretend to be holy as they accept the worship that belongs to the messiah while they promote war and genocide. Even today chrisitanity has been infiltrated with the false christians like Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama who laugh while they admit they hand a hand in murdering someone. Actions will always speak louder than words and their words and their actions judge them and condemn them.

reply to post by OldCorp


Man, I agree with you on Hamas
I also hate suicide bombers.
But I hate even more seeing a modern war machine causing the deaths of children in an extreme version of tit for tat which is then clouded over with endless MSM propaganda due to the fact that all the stations and newspapers are...
well, that's where it enters dangerous territory. I don't mind putting my feet in a little warm water but there are some conspiracies even I won't touch with a barge pole.

Keep doing what you're doing, man, just look a little further afield for comparative data.
When push comes to shove, I'd support the Israelis over the arabs any day. I like Arabs as individuals (I also spent some time in Morocco) but we ar just too culturally different. Ultimately, like you say, it does come down to religion and they take theirs just a little too far for my liking.
Plus the whole woman thing wouldn't go down too well with my wife or daughter

One very important thing to keep in mind when dealing with the Jewish and Muslim thing is perspective. To a musilm you are an infadel because you don't accept M as the only prophet of A. To a Jew, you are a gentile because you weren't born a jew. And if you dig just a little more into your Bible you'll discover that only Jews can become Christian (they call it messianic) - God was pretty specific on who his chosen people were and just how many would enter the kingdom of heaven. Plus look at Peter's perception of gentiles (remember that he knew Jesus and was the rock on which the church would be built; Paul never met Jesus and had his own interpretation of things, which Peter strongly opposed (Peter wouldn;'t even eat with one of us)). Plus, Jesus only gave the Lesser Commision which strictly forbade preaching outside of the Jewish faith - the Greater commission was added much later to justify Paul's hierarchical church and 'sponsoring' system.

Ultimately, we're from pagan barbarian stock, you and I, and for several thousand years of our history we've been played.
But, as good pagan barbarian stock it's part of our nature to go to battle for various causes - be they moral or financial.
Take everything in this world with a bucket of salt and remember that you're only here for a few years so just go with whatever you feel right. Apologies if I sound didactic, it's a failing of mine. I honestly mean it in the best possible way.

Originally posted by Aestheteka
reply to post by OldCorp

 

well, that's where it enters dangerous territory. I don't mind putting my feet in a little warm water but there are some conspiracies even I won't touch with a barge pole.

My wife wishes I had the same sense. Last night I showed her the rough draft of the next episode of TTIV and she about had a cow. The ensuing conversation:

Wifey: Holy Sh*t Robert, you're not going to publish that are you?

Me: Why not honey? It's the truth. I thought you'd be proud of me.
Wifey: I am proud of you, but I'm scared for you too.
Me: Baby, there's nothing to be afraid of. If Alex Jones is still alive and kicking after all the smack he talks, they aren't going to bother with me and my little show on a conspiracy website.

I think it's cute though that she thinks I'd be a target: Bobby Powell: International Journalist of Mystery.

TBCH, If I had my way I'd go back to writing about music; I really enjoyed that. One day I'll get around to scanning the pictures I've taken with various celebs I've interviewed and tell a few stories. I think Arlo Guthrie was the coolest person I've ever met. He was in town to do a "Save the Manatees" concert and I asked, "What was it like to be a leader of the movement that ended a terrible war?" To which he replied, "The best part was being part of a movement that didn't need any leaders." That's so cash! We've been friends on Myspace since it went online. Maybe I'll get in touch with him and ask him about the OWS protests, now THAT would be a cool show.

Keep doing what you're doing, man, just look a little further afield for comparative data.
When push comes to shove, I'd support the Israelis over the arabs any day. I like Arabs as individuals (I also spent some time in Morocco) but we ar just too culturally different. Ultimately, like you say, it does come down to religion and they take theirs just a little too far for my liking.
Plus the whole woman thing wouldn't go down too well with my wife or daughter

Brother, I've been totally back and forth on the whole Muslim thing. When I was in the Corp, I hated them. I wanted blood because a couple of Marines I went through Boot with died in Lebanon. Then through the mid-80's I went to college in Detroit, which has a considerable Muslim population. I met and came to be close with many decent hardworking Muslims, and even dated a few Muslim girls; a Lebanese, a Persian, and a Palestinian. The romance with the Persian girl ended when her father found out she had been seeing an infidel. He beat her so badly she never returned to school and I never saw her again. The only reason I know what happened was because here sister told me, bragging that it was her who told her father she'd seen us kissing. What a bitch.

But I maintained a respect for Muslims as "People of The Book" though; after all, we all purport to worship the God of Abraham. Even after 9/11 I was able to separate Muslims from Islamic terrorism; I still do. I understand that people like bin-Laden, al-Awlaki, al-Zarquawi, and other radical Islamists do not necessarily represent how most Muslims feel any more than Wesboro Baptist (which has been condemned by the Southern Baptist Convention BTW) represents me. By and large, I think most Muslims are like everybody else; they just want a chance to raise their families in peace. As a father and grandfather I get that.

After I start writing in depth about the M.E., I necessarily had to delve deeper into what Muslims actually believe if I was going to write about Islam intelligently. Turns out that - in his own words - Mohammed was a thief, a liar, kidnapper, murderer, and pedophile; that it's common and accepted practice to lie to infidels if it advances the cause of Islam; and that you can't be a "good Muslim" and have Christian or Jewish friends.

Where do I go from there? If a Muslim is a "good Muslim" that follows the Koran, then non-Muslims would be foolhardy to turn their back on them or believe anything they say. How can I be friends with a Muslim when the Koran forbids it, and in fact exhorts true believers to kill me?

ATM, I just take people on a case by case basis, judging them according to their fruits. In the case of Hamas I think it's safe to say their fruit is poisonous.

Take everything in this world with a bucket of salt and remember that you're only here for a few years so just go with whatever you feel right.

I do, and I know. I also know that in the big scheme of things I'm a nobody; but I can't be silent when there is so much injustice in the world. When I die I want to be able to look back on my life and know I did all I could to change it; that I spoke the truth when others did not; and that - in some small way - I made a difference.

reply to post by OldCorp


I misjudged you man
You're a good bloke.
I''ll have to check out you channel

reply to post by Aestheteka

“For those of you unfamiliar with Gaza, it bears a remarkable similarity to the Warsaw ghetto. It's basically a city with what was once farmland which has been walled in and now relies completely on Israel for its utilities and food. Sometimes, Israel decides to switch off the power or stop the food (for example, this is the reason for the aid flotilla because of Israel's embargo on Gaza).

There was NO wall surrounding Gaza strip in 1992-3.
Gaza strip was not under any kind of blockade in 1992-3.
The farmland on the outskirts of Gaza still exist.
Gaza is most certainly not a “compound full of rubble”, but don't let me stop you from buying that BS Pallywood propaganda.

Who is the dis- info agent again ??

And again, comparing the Warsaw Ghetto to life in Gaza, is at the very least – dumb... or maybe it's just that your bias clouded your ability to separate the two. If it's just a matter of lack of knowledge on that subject, I'll be happy to help.:

Originally posted by OldCorp

Originally posted by Aestheteka
reply to post by OldCorp

 

I've covered this story for years, you could say it is my area of expertise, so I know the realities on the ground.

Where did you live in Israel and what parts of Gaza have you visited?
I used to know the border area quite well. When I was 18 I went to live on a kibbutz that backed onto Gaza (it's the same kibbutz that the Israeli army use as a tank park when they shell Gaza). I could tell you many stories about the reality of the situation 'on the ground'.
It's ironic as now I live only a few hours away from Warsaw of the ghetto fame. The similarities are striking.
Let's hear yours.

You know what I find hilarious? You and the guy I quoted in the post above this resort to personal attacks when you know that I'm right and you have no defensible position. That is how I know I've won the argument. At least others can debate the subject intelligently; an art form you are quite far from mastering.

edit on 11/2/2011 by OldCorp because: (no reason given)

In my time at ATS I have always found you to be a mature poster who argues the subject, not the poster.
Whenever you post about this topic your entire attitude and writing style changes.
The post above sees you attacking a poster who has said NOTHING wrong to you.
They have not attacked or insulted you in any way and yet you carry on as if they are morons..

Sad to see the Jeckle&Hyde scenario from you..

reply to post by Aestheteka

“When I lived a mile from the fence seperating Gaza and Israel, I'd be sitting in the communal canteen and a bomb would go off in the near distance, sending all the plates crashing off the table to the floor. This happened on a failry regular basis. It was from Israeli warplanes strafing Gaza”

There were no Israeli jets targeting Palestinian terrorists or terrorists infrastructures until 2000.
|November 9th to be exact. An Apache gun ship targeted Husein Abiat (?) in Beit Lehem with a Tow missile.
It certinaly didn't happen in 1992-3, and these bombs or rockets could not have possibly “send your plates crashing off the table” from that distance.

This is what happens when people can't tell a sonic boom (which is a common thing everywhere in Israel) from a bomb going of. Nice try though.

You were saying ….?

reply to post by backinblack


Brother tell me it doesn't make your blood boil to see the indiscriminate murder of civilians. 20% of Israeli citizens are Arab; not the ones living in Gaza or the West Bank, but in Israel proper. Doesn't the fact that they can get along with the Jews and live peaceably in that society prove that it is possible? And if it is possible for Arabs and Jews to live side-by side, then why did the Israelis have to build a wall to keep out people who want to blow up the most innocent at their most vulnerable moments?

I know you don't defend suicide bombings, but you have to admit that if the terror threat from Hamas were removed, if rockets and mortars stopped falling into civilian neighborhoods, there would be no need for retaliation. If there were no longer a threat of suicide bombers coming into Israel, I know in my heart that the Israelis would tear down the wall, or at least lift the blockade and ease passage of goods through the checkpoints. They really aren't the cold bastards everyone makes them out to be. They even warn civilians to leave an area before it is bombed; what other country goes to those lengths to protect innocent life?

*I didn't mean to be up all night. I was off in Word land writing another project. I started at 11 p.m., and just realized (now that the kids are stirring for school) that it's freakin' 6;30 in the morning! The Sun ain't even peekin' yet.

I'll catch you guys later. Nighty

Unfortunately, you're correct. Seems the war will start right after the IAEA report next week. There is NO reason to attack Iran at this moment as ALL intellegence agencies except Mossad have concluded Iran is at least two years away from making a nuke and as yet have not decided to do so. So the big question is why now? The simple answer is Israel wants to do it now and if it is not properly coordinated with other powers it would be a sloppy mess. So, the US and Britain and perhaps others will spend their treasuries and the lives of their youth to satisfy Israel. When will this nonsence stop? I think it will stop after this war as Israel will be devastated and unable to act as they have prior to the war. They want to stop Iran fron acquireing the technology to actually make a nuke. In all probabbility Iran already has 3-4 nukes purchased on the black market after the fall of the Soviet Union (there are 300 still missing) Irans military capabilities are unknown and up to now there have only been guesses. Although, with the US involved they will certainly be defeated but in the face of total defeat they will unleash everything they have at Israel. Israel will forever be changed.