All things Pagan. A Druid's guide.

reply to post by Noinden


FYI: When any organization hands out "titles", you should be wary. Any status you adhere to is because you have researched, practiced, learned, held fast, and believe. It's not given to you by a group, or any person, it's given to you from your own knowledge.

To take a comical approach from "Finding Nemo", when they are in the EAC, Marlin asks, "How do you know when they are ready?"

The sea turtle, over 150 years old, responds, "You know, when they know, Yanno?"

reply to post by Druid42


Why should I be "wary"?? In ADF one earns those titles through an accredited clergy program. They are not handed out, they take a lot of work. Further more history records that the Druids studied to EARN the title of "druid", QED titles may be earned.

reply to post by Noinden


I never "earned" my title, I simply accepted it. You could call me many things, but druid is the best accepted query that I answer to. I don't magic or tricks much anymore, and I've become skeptical of what "others" believe.

I'll let it sit at that now.

Originally posted by Noinden
reply to post by Druid42

 

Why should I be "wary"?? In ADF one earns those titles through an accredited clergy program. They are not handed out, they take a lot of work. Further more history records that the Druids studied to EARN the title of "druid", QED titles may be earned.

Because all titles are human institutions. They are all made up by us (categorically) and therefore meaningless.

You certainly can be proud of any titles you earn by following an accredited program - it means that you have the tenacity to achieve goals that many others can not or will not achieve. However, it does not mean you are any more or any less blessed, special, spiritual, worthy, or precious than any other one. The thing to be wary of is in believing that the title will mean you are more deserving of _______ than any other. Ça va?

Example: The Grey School

You can earn several degrees at this school. It will take concerted effort and dedication. It would be similar to attending many online degree programs.

I am confident that the teaching staff are honest persons, invested in the success of their students, the school, and their own personal and professional reputations as practitioners. Many of the staff are authors, with that reputation also, to uphold. These people are not taking things lightly. I have heard interviews with staff members that has convinced me of their sincerity. If you read through the course descriptions, you will see the content that they are trying to impart to the students. Much of the content is from the Harry Potter books, which is a less than credible source for many of us.

What value is conferred to a person who claims to have completed one of these programs or degrees?

Well... Many good concepts will have been communicated through the study material. The students may feel that their academic achievement has some special meaning that in practice, it may not. The foundation is laid, now the practice comes into play. Once you understand the fundamentals of anything, you grasp the concepts, but you still need the actual hands-on experience to see how it is applicable to your own real-world situations.

reply to post by Druid42


That is true.
but you should studie some from All religons.
you will find a little good and a lot of bad.
in them all.
it is up to you to find the truth.

All Gods and Goddess are one God.
with No gender.

reply to post by buddha

I agree, but will add a bit more.... All gods and goddesses are one god/goddess have no gender and all are at the same time completely separate beings and infinitely expressive of a gender or type. *shrug* My so called understanding of such things is not so easily expressed in short-form writing and I'm not really sure I am effective at communicating in such a manner, but my understanding (such as it is) always has duality as part of its explanations. Maybe just the way I see things, or the manner in which I find the best comprehension.

Originally posted by Druid42
reply to post by Noinden

 

I never "earned" my title, I simply accepted it. You could call me many things, but druid is the best accepted query that I answer to. I don't magic or tricks much anymore, and I've become skeptical of what "others" believe.

I'll let it sit at that now.

Sorry mate, but when I say earned, I mean it, hard study.

reply to post by Noinden


I'll go with hard study. I didn't wake up one day, and say, POOF, I'm now a Druid. It took years of study, walking down many different paths, getting lost, but finding my way again. In my "Elder" age, I see the paths before I take them, knowing which ones are dead ends, and which ones take me to my destination. I avoid the mistakes of my youth, which was not seeing through life clearly.

I usually think before I speak. I listen before I act. I gather knowledge before I change. I listen to my heart.

And so, the path leads onwards.

Originally posted by Druid42
reply to post by Noinden

 

I'll go with hard study. I didn't wake up one day, and say, POOF, I'm now a Druid. It took years of study, walking down many different paths, getting lost, but finding my way again. In my "Elder" age, I see the paths before I take them, knowing which ones are dead ends, and which ones take me to my destination. I avoid the mistakes of my youth, which was not seeing through life clearly.

I usually think before I speak. I listen before I act. I gather knowledge before I change. I listen to my heart.

And so, the path leads onwards.

Honest question, just how old are you? I certainly do not consider myself an "elder" at 39. I lead the orders "warriors", but I'm no elder.

reply to post by Noinden


Others say I'm a very old soul. My physical age is irrelevant, once you see outside the bounds of reality. Time is but a crude way to measure our real age.

Originally posted by Druid42
reply to post by Noinden

 

Others say I'm a very old soul. My physical age is irrelevant, once you see outside the bounds of reality. Time is but a crude way to measure our real age.

Strangely I think you will find the Paleopagan Druids (ie first ones) probably did not feel the same, given both Roman texts and recorded legends of the insular Celts showed that it took upto 20 years to be able to call ones self a "Druid".

I see a lot of easter philopshy in that answer of yours, which is fine, to each their own. But it was an evasive answer.

Disglair Bendithion,

I am a Cymry Gwyddon, a Welsh Heathen if you will, whom practices a reconstructionalist way of life. First of all, I would like to thank Druid for starting this thread. It is definitely nice to see more Nature-based brothers and sisters here on ATS. In my opinion, the only thing that is truly sure in this world is the Land we stand upon and the cycles of the seasons. In these we can learn to "walk gently upon the earth". There are so many teachings that can be found in meditating upon the rising and setting of the Sun and the Moon. Understanding the natural phenomenon can lead us to a deeper knowledge of "heavenly things".

As a Gwyddon, I know that all the answers are already within myself, and that any spiritual practice leads me to re-discover these sacred truths. All myths, legends and lore are veiled references to better understand our place in the scheme of things. My personal beliefs are that the various Gods and Goddesses we are introduced to in the aboriginal cultures of the world may or may not exist in the sense of extraterrestrial intelligence, but that by understanding their stories lead us to a better understanding of our own Human-ness. They don't want us to bow or grovel before them, they beg of us to stand up as Sovereign beings in our own right. To act in honor and not in shame.

I hold no bad opinion on those whom follow the Book-religions, but when asked what sacred manuscripts I hold dear, I tell them, "when your book is left to the wind and rain, the pages are soiled and ink runs. My Bible is the wind and rain."

This is my 2 cents worth. And even though it says this is my first post, I have been here on ATS before, but that was long ago. I left because of all the drama and personal reasons. Though I can say with certainty, it is nice to be back.

reply to post by lleiffermawr


Wow, your first post back was very moving. I hope to see more of you around. Honestly.

I do have a question for you: How does sound affect the resonance within yourself? How does music cause you to feel emotions? I was thinking along those thoughts a few days ago, and was yet busy, my attention otherwise placed. I'd like your thoughts on that matter.

And lest I forget my manners, welcome back, old friend.

Merry Meet,

My understanding of sound harmonics is that everything in existence has a resonance, a vibration. If you strike a tuning fork on one end of the room, and place a stringed instrument in the other end, then the notes on the piano will vibrate with the same frequency of the tuning fork. This, likewise works on emotions within a human organism. Our pineal glands, being a crystlized substance acts very much like a tuning fork. Our cell phones also have a crystal whereby we receive phone calls on the same frequency. When we dial a number a connection is created.

Listening to violent music will elicit an increase in specific chemicals associated with violence and fire up different areas of the brain with electrical currents. Likewise, if you listen to peaceful music it will create a harmony in the chemical output of the brain. Everything is vibration. When a person harmonizes with the universe, the universe can cause changes to consciousness.

Some theorize that certain tones affect certain areas of energy, called in the Eastern Mystery Tradition as chakras which correlate to certain glands in the human body. Though many books and teachers espouse these ideas, I personally have not done much work in this area of expertise. Though the basic actions of ritual and Circle work has shown that certain states of consciousness can be achieved by listening to music and chanting.

I will definitely have to try more of this out and get back to you with appropriate resources to back my claims or to debunk them.

Merry Part and Merry Meet Again

reply to post by lleiffermawr

There is much knowledge that has been lost over the ages, and I'd like to believe our ancestors had the ability to be "in tune" with nature, simply by listening to the sounds around them. You've presented several interesting aspects of how what we hear affects the way we think. This could become an interesting conversation.

Thanks for sharing. Merry part till it be morrow.

reply to post by HellcatEmi


How about I add a bit more? All Gods and Goddesses were actually ET Beings, who came here for another planet, or planets? Perhaps when the ones who seeded this planet come back again, they will tell us all of these things.

Originally posted by Druid42
reply to post by lleiffermawr

 

There is much knowledge that has been lost over the ages, and I'd like to believe our ancestors had the ability to be "in tune" with nature, simply by listening to the sounds around them. You've presented several interesting aspects of how what we hear affects the way we think. This could become an interesting conversation.

Thanks for sharing. Merry part till it be morrow.

I am always amazed that the modern pagan (or modern westerner in general) thinks that our “pagan” ancestors were more in tune with nature. There were less of us, so we had a smaller impact on the world (perhaps there is a lesson there?), but honestly our ancestors had less of an impact more due to numbers, and less “advanced” technology. They still chopped down large chunks of forest, and #ed over the environment. Indeed look at what the Pagan Romans did to the Carthaginians at the end of the Punic wars, they “salted the earth” on purpose. Similar comments are found in the histories of most western and middle eastern “pagan” cultures.
So (speaking as a pagan) I do not feel that the Paleopagan (pre-Christian pagans, as opposed to Neopagan (modern pagans) and Mesopagans (groups like the OTO, Golden Dawn etc which are influenced by Christianity, while being distinctly non abrahamic)), were that much more in touch with the earth, nature, or the environment. It’s a modern myth, and one I hope more people try to emulate, but I still remain a realist, and student of Indo-European pre-Christian spirituality.
Other myths (neo)pagans hold include:
That our ancestors were at some point pacifists (nope, archeological evidence shows otherwise).
That our ancestors were all “goddess worshipers” (again no evidence and the work of Maria Gumbatas, Margret Murray etc have been proven to be somewhat skewed. Some cultures were indeed matrilineal, matriarchal etc, but they were as war like as the so called patriarchal “Kurgans” of Gumbatas).

And
The Burning times. The big one for many pagans, where they propose that the inquisition was all about destroying the remnants of the “witch cult” (it is usually Wiccans who pull this one out to say it is why Christianity is “bad). When in reality most of the burnings/hangings/stoning were secular, and involved random women and men (who had something their neighbours wanted) or were Jews, Gypsies, and the “wrong flavour” of Christian for the area.

Originally posted by Noinden

Originally posted by Druid42
reply to post by lleiffermawr

 

There is much knowledge that has been lost over the ages, and I'd like to believe our ancestors had the ability to be "in tune" with nature, simply by listening to the sounds around them. You've presented several interesting aspects of how what we hear affects the way we think. This could become an interesting conversation.

Thanks for sharing. Merry part till it be morrow.

I am always amazed that the modern pagan (or modern westerner in general) thinks that our “pagan” ancestors were more in tune with nature. There were less of us, so we had a smaller impact on the world (perhaps there is a lesson there?), but honestly our ancestors had less of an impact more due to numbers, and less “advanced” technology.

We were more "in tune" with nature. We survived in ages past by being in "harmony" with the world around us. We were geographically isolated units, and never tried to conquer the earth. We were happy where we were at, and left alone, we'd be content. We never had the chance to be alone. The Conquerors came upon us, and destroyed us, for fear of the knowledge we had.

They still chopped down large chunks of forest, and screwed over the environment. Indeed look at what the Pagan Romans did to the Carthaginians at the end of the Punic wars, they “salted the earth” on purpose. Similar comments are found in the histories of most western and middle eastern “pagan” cultures.

Let's draw a distinction here, between "Pagans" and "Non-Christianized people". The base term for Pagan means "heathen". The Pagan Romans of which you speak were actually "heathens" in the eyes of the Christian apostles, and they viewed them as such due to years of persecution. They were not true Pagans, but defined as such, being lumped into a general category. The Romans were ruthless Conquerors, and only sought to dominate, and expand their Empire of Control. There is a difference between a Pagan, who walks the path of peace, and a pagan (heathen) who hasn't converted to Christianity yet.

So (speaking as a pagan) I do not feel that the Paleopagan (pre-Christian pagans, as opposed to Neopagan (modern pagans) and Mesopagans (groups like the OTO, Golden Dawn etc which are influenced by Christianity, while being distinctly non abrahamic)), were that much more in touch with the earth, nature, or the environment.

Paleopagans are no more. They have moved on, and no longer with us, their knowledge hidden away for those who seek it. Everything we see and believe is contaminated by Christianity, or Islam, or any other belief system that draws us away from our bond with Mother Earth. Peace on earth is against THEIR beliefs, not ours. In the strictest sense I would be classified as a Neopagan, because I do utilize technology to further increase my knowledge, and I will state my disdain for anyone who claims to be a Mesopagan.

Other myths (neo)pagans hold include:
That our ancestors were at some point pacifists (nope, archeological evidence shows otherwise).
That our ancestors were all “goddess worshipers” (again no evidence and the work of Maria Gumbatas, Margret Murray etc have been proven to be somewhat skewed. Some cultures were indeed matrilineal, matriarchal etc, but they were as war like as the so called patriarchal “Kurgans” of Gumbatas).

Ever research the Tuatha de Dannan?

The Burning times. The big one for many pagans, where they propose that the inquisition was all about destroying the remnants of the “witch cult” (it is usually Wiccans who pull this one out to say it is why Christianity is “bad). When in reality most of the burnings/hangings/stoning were secular, and involved random women and men (who had something their neighbours wanted) or were Jews, Gypsies, and the “wrong flavour” of Christian for the area.

That was a time of injustice. People in power who FEARED the lack of control. It's in our historical record, and cannot be denied. Can we learn from it?

Is it within our power to live peacefully with the world around us, without trying to control others, existing in harmony?

How does that contrast with what you have been taught so far in your life?

Originally posted by HellcatEmi
reply to post by buddha

 

I agree, but will add a bit more.... All gods and goddesses are one god/goddess have no gender and all are at the same time completely separate beings and infinitely expressive of a gender or type. *shrug* My so called understanding of such things is not so easily expressed in short-form writing and I'm not really sure I am effective at communicating in such a manner, but my understanding (such as it is) always has duality as part of its explanations. Maybe just the way I see things, or the manner in which I find the best comprehension.

I have to disagree. do you know of all of the Gods and Goddesses in the KJV Bible alone? Here, allow me to help you:
The Gods Of The Bible
Curiously, most of these wish to be called "Lord," meaning one who owns slaves. And how about the Egyptian Gods and Goddesses? And the Sumerian ones? and the Greek ones? Sorry, but that is way too many to bunch up into one.