Why are evolutionists convinced we are not created?

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
Where is your thesis proving that a created being would be digital?

Until you can provide it, and it can be independently verified, you are operating on ASSUMPTION.

You ASSume that if we were created we would be digital beings.

It could go the other way too. You are saying that beings created by a creator would be digital. That if it were shown that we are "digital beings" (whatever that means) that it would prove the existence of God. Your assumption is based on the fact that we humans have created digital forms of being. (Not intelligent life.)

So yeah, could it be said that we MUST follow the rules of nature, which evolution also followed, in our technologies? To put it another way; Assuming we are "digital beings" it would not be proof of a creator. It would only be proof that we must copy nature in our technology.


Your argument is... Well it's the kind of argument you'd expect from a religious person. Illogical, without science backing it up, based on personal beliefs and not observable reality.

I'm not saying your ideas are definitely wrong, just that your method of reaching them is.

you really don't understand what I'm saying, I'm not religous, this argument is completly logical

if we were created then that would mean that the universe is digital (i.e. a computer) and we would be a digital being within the computer. I can't accept theorys that a computer formed on its own, someone would have had to have created that computer (real life) therefore if we are digital, then that means we were created..

nobody has proven that this universe we live in is not a computer, and that is the only way to conclusively prove that we evolved. Because if the universe is not a computer then we evolved! Yet science hasn't touched on this fact at all, instead its been looking in all the places to prove we evolved.

I'm really not trying to get your back up, its fact

Its perfectly possible for us to be a digital being! in fact more likely mathematically that we are digital than we evolved!

creation and "god" to create one must experience life, Love hate anger, happiness and everything else life has to offer. How can a god create with out experience. So who was gods mother father did he/her/it have brothers and sisters..?

reply to post by SaturnFX


And yet science changes everyday they find that they where wrong first, i dont know where where from, because i dont believe in god and i dont believe in the big bang theory.

So sorry if theres no picture or it didint happen, science is the new age religion, and maybe in the future something will replace science.

thanks do

Originally posted by piles
reply to post by piles

 

also i would just like to point out that mathematically it is far more likely that we are a digital being, than a being which got here from a blast... if we calculate the odds of an explosion getting our planet here, the odds of an explosion getting the sun where the sun is and the odds of the sun burning endlessly alone..

its already about 1 million times more likely that we were created, why does science not even understand the basic fact that if we were created then we are digital?

There are so many things wrong with this I don't know where to begin.

First off, you're calculating "odds", which are spurious at best. We evolved into what we are, and you are using that as a singular end point. We could have evolved into many other possibilities if certain things had been different (chemical composition, distance from sun etc.). Also, there are billions of other planets and until we know what is on ALL of them your attempt at calculating odds is just that.

Secondly, what are the "odds" you calculated that show we were created? Have you calculated the other possibilities where God could have placed us a different distance from the sun? Why not further away or closer? Why not a planet with a consistent temperature? Why not a different God? What are the odds that a God decided to make the North Pole. What are the odds that he decided to throw people certain diseases like cleft palate? What are the odds on the specific races? You can go on and on.

edit: Replace God with computer or whatever your theory if neccessary

Ugh.

There is SO MUCH evidence for evolution.

Evolution can be seen today. Just look at our friend the dog:

All dogs descended from the Gray Wolf. Dogs were first domesticated about 130,000 years ago. Since then, breeding for desirable traits has created over 150 different breeds. Despite their physical differences, their skeletal structure is nearly identical.

Dogs have evolved from wolves to live with humans. Dogs relate to humans in ways that no other animal does. If you point to something a dog knows what you mean. Point in front of a cat, or a monkey, or a ferret, and it will just stare at your finger. Dogs understand our facial cues, wolves do not. Dogs respond to and understand a limited vocabulary, wolves do not.. Dogs have evolved to take various different shapes and behaviors based on what we wanted from them. The list goes on and on.

This is just ONE TINY example of provable evolution. There are millions of others around the planet.


Please do some real research before claiming your own beliefs and assumptions are true reality.


right if i funded a project i could create two species which had almost exact dna matches with the technology that is currently available to our species. for example a dog and a wolf. If i can create a dog and a wolf with a computer which had exact dna matches, why couldn't our creator have created a dog and a wolf with similar dna matches?


a dog and a wolf is not evidence that we evolved, and while there is evidence that suggests we might have evolved, without disproving that this is not a computer (our universe) we can't prove that we weren't created..

sorry but its a fact..

reply to post by piles


Simple and undeniable proof God created man. Look at the composition of your bones, look at the composition of the human body. Now look at the composition of a handful of dirt with water mixed in. Bingo. The same elements.

Originally posted by piles

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
Where is your thesis proving that a created being would be digital?

Until you can provide it, and it can be independently verified, you are operating on ASSUMPTION.

You ASSume that if we were created we would be digital beings.

It could go the other way too. You are saying that beings created by a creator would be digital. That if it were shown that we are "digital beings" (whatever that means) that it would prove the existence of God. Your assumption is based on the fact that we humans have created digital forms of being. (Not intelligent life.)

So yeah, could it be said that we MUST follow the rules of nature, which evolution also followed, in our technologies? To put it another way; Assuming we are "digital beings" it would not be proof of a creator. It would only be proof that we must copy nature in our technology.


Your argument is... Well it's the kind of argument you'd expect from a religious person. Illogical, without science backing it up, based on personal beliefs and not observable reality.

I'm not saying your ideas are definitely wrong, just that your method of reaching them is.

you really don't understand what I'm saying, I'm not religous, this argument is completly logical

if we were created then that would mean that the universe is digital (i.e. a computer) and we would be a digital being within the computer. I can't accept theorys that a computer formed on its own, someone would have had to have created that computer (real life) therefore if we are digital, then that means we were created..

nobody has proven that this universe we live in is not a computer, and that is the only way to conclusively prove that we evolved. Because if the universe is not a computer then we evolved! Yet science hasn't touched on this fact at all, instead its been looking in all the places to prove we evolved.

I'm really not trying to get your back up, its fact

Its perfectly possible for us to be a digital being! in fact more likely mathematically that we are digital than we evolved!

I understand exactly what you're saying but what you're saying is all assumption.

You have not proven that created life should be digital. You prove to me that your assumptions are fact and I will entertain your premise. Until then you are simply stating what you believe. Not reality.

reply to post by GodefroydeBouillon

And yet science changes everyday they find that they where wrong first, i dont know where where from, because i dont believe in god and i dont believe in the big bang theory.

Cutting edge science changes often. Theory of evolution is settled science, and it wont change for the same reason that heliocentrism wont change, except some details here and there.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by piles

 

Simple and undeniable proof God created man. Look at the composition of your bones, look at the composition of the human body. Now look at the composition of a handful of dirt with water mixed in. Bingo. The same elements.

Not sure how this proves anything. Can you please elaborate?

You want proof of creation? Here it is!

Thank you for the just after work entertainment thread

Believe what you want..........

I choose what ever makes the most sense......If there needs to more information before coming to a conclusion, well,,,,,,then I will wait for more info.

Logic (from the Greek λογική logikē)[1] is the formal systematic study of the principles of valid inference and correct reasoning.

en.wikipedia.org...

I try to steer away from old wise tales of the old, old, old days......

I will be the first to flag you.......I just got home from work and the house is quiet

Originally posted by lellomackin

Originally posted by piles
reply to post by piles

 

also i would just like to point out that mathematically it is far more likely that we are a digital being, than a being which got here from a blast... if we calculate the odds of an explosion getting our planet here, the odds of an explosion getting the sun where the sun is and the odds of the sun burning endlessly alone..

its already about 1 million times more likely that we were created, why does science not even understand the basic fact that if we were created then we are digital?

There are so many things wrong with this I don't know where to begin.

First off, you're calculating "odds", which are spurious at best. We evolved into what we are, and you are using that as a singular end point. We could have evolved into many other possibilities if certain things had been different (chemical composition, distance from sun etc.). Also, there are billions of other planets and until we know what is on ALL of them your attempt at calculating odds is just that.

Secondly, what are the "odds" you calculated that show we were created? Have you calculated the other possibilities where God could have placed us a different distance from the sun? Why not further away or closer? Why not a planet with a consistent temperature? Why not a different God? What are the odds that a God decided to make the North Pole. What are the odds that he decided to throw people certain diseases like cleft palate? What are the odds on the specific races? You can go on and on.

edit: Replace God with computer or whatever your theory if neccessary

edit on 31-10-2011 by lellomackin because: editied to add after reading a previous comment

a human being could create a computer with graphics as clear as your eyesight, that looked like this universe, with a species on a planet that looked like our earth and its fairly easy to concieve that given how unlikely it is that we got to this very day as a result of a bang and millions of other factors thats nothing short of a miracle got us here.

its hard to detertmine the exact odds of an explosion, that resulted in our existence.. but in comparsion from a far more likely theory it is far less likely that we got here from an explosion..

reply to post by piles


I'm going to ask you what your 7th grade algebra teacher always asked you..

Where's your work to prove this answer is correct?

You are claiming one situation is mathematically more likely than another to occur, please provide the numbers. If you cannot, admit that this is your opinion, and not fact reached through mathematics.

reply to post by piles

A paradox is a seemingly true statement or group of statements that lead to a contradiction or a situation which seems to defy logic or intuition. Typically, however, quoted paradoxical statements do not imply a real contradiction and the puzzling results can be rectified by demonstrating that one or more of the premises themselves are not really true, a play on words, faulty and/or cannot all be true together.

Paradox

Wait, this proves nothing. Just another paradox for your argument.

reply to post by piles

given how unlikely it is that we got to this very day as a result of a bang and millions of other factors thats nothing short of a miracle got us here.

We dont know whether it is unlikely. Our universe could have billions of intelligent races for all we know. That would make it not a miracle, but a rule.

Originally posted by piles

If we were created, then that means we are a digital being. That also means that the universe is digital!

Erm why? In either case whether digital or analogue why does "creation" imply either method? Seems it's a statement you have made to bolster a contrived argument...... let's see shall we.

yet when i asked a fairly well known scienctist if its at all possible that we were created he said no! I managed to back him into a corner with this argument and he at least agreed that he could be wrong and yes given what I had said it is possible that we were created.

Name please. So we know the credentials of a cornered scientist. If you can't or are unwilling to then I could just as easily state : "I had an argument with a creationist the other day and they could not defend their point of view and started to shake uncontrollably at the fear of the lack of faith I had instilled in them". Just a story without proof!

It is perfectly possible that we are a digital being and in order for science to prove we are here as a result of evolution it would need to prove we were not digital. Which science hasn't managed to prove, therefore not one person on this planet can prove that we evolved.

Ah ha contrived argument appears........let's see how this develops......

It seems science has turned to things like fossils and DNA in order to prove evolution exists, instead of turning to the very important fact that if we are not digital then we evolved. Which bassicly means that not one scientist can prove we evolved until a scientist can prove we are non-digital

re-enforcement of contrived argument......developing nicely.......

While you may feel real, in the short amount of time we have had computers we are already able to create a digital being that looked like us, acted like us and thinks its real. The only thing we would struggle with is creating a digital being as intelligence as us. however would could probably create for now a digital being as intelligent as a 10yr old child. we could create dna which matched both a monkey and a parrot. we could also create digital beings that adapted to their environments.

The fact is that of todays date, 31/10/2011 after god knows how many years of being on this planet not a single person on this planet can prove we are non-digital. therefore we as a species don't yet know wheather or not we were created or evolved..

I see because YOU state we are digital this means we are created.

Here's a statement I will make. We are NOT a digital base 2 system we are a digital base 4 system. This has arisen due to the mix of chemicals present 4 billion years ago. Chemical analysis, fossil analysis, DNA analysis all proves this to be the case. We evolved from 4 base proteins.

Of course I am assuming you meant a base 2 digital system : What base did you mean?

reply to post by piles


here here,never got this big bang theroy,scientists have us believe all sorts about universe,that this and that aint possible but they try and have us believe that it started from nothing,seriously how can u get something from nothing?big bang theroy to be is a cop out.

I understand exactly what you're saying but what you're saying is all assumption.

You have not proven that created life should be digital. You prove to me that your assumptions are fact and I will entertain your premise. Until then you are simply stating what you believe. Not reality.

While you really think I just believe that in order for us to have been created we would have to be digital, it really is a fact which cannot be disproven.

In order for a creator to create a sun, in the exact same way the sun burns it would need to be digital, in order to make our planet float in the way it floats it would need to be digital, in order to create a being it would need to be digital.

and its perfectly possible that we are a digital being, afterall after a fews year of having a computer we've already managed to reach a point whereby we could create a universe just like ours..


and yet again not only is it a fact that if we were created then we are digital, it is also a fact until some can dis-prove that we are not digital then nobody can prove that our being evolved. end of

reply to post by piles


can someone explain how else it would be possible to have created this universe other than the fact that its a computer?
answer is you can't, because its the only way we could have been created..

if we are not digital, then we are not created

simple really isn't it!

reply to post by piles

can someone explain how else it would be possible to have created this universe other than the fact that its a computer? answer is you can't, because its the only way we could have been created.. if we are not digital, then we are not created simple really isn't it!

...And this is the argument that "drove the scientist into a corner"?

I'd just like to point out that in order to be created we wouldn't HAVE to be digital. Unless of course you mean created by other beings like us, or even by humans.