So who exactly are these "Fake Jews" mentioned in Revelations 2:9 and 3:9?

reply to post by Red Cloak


khazars are the descendants of a cultural admix such as sumerians, cimmerians, and assyrians etc but they are not jews for the most part. they are converts to the jewish religions. The jews the new testament writers are refering to are in my opinion are samaritans. Thats not to say certain jewish religious sects aren't satanists the same as khabalists interpret things not so literally.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Reply to post by CasiusIgnoranze

 

IMO, it is main-stream Christianity.

Well, you may actually not be wrong. Christianity is a form of simplified Judaism. I don't know if you are correct or not, but I wouldn't rule it out.

I try not to get into these discussions because I have studied the world's religions extensively and no offense to anyone, but the Abrahmic religions are not at the top of my list. I do not say that because they are necessarily entirely wrong, but because of the manipulation that has been involved with them.

If one were to analyze the histories of these religions they would understand what I speak of. What amazes me about many of the proponents of Abrahamic religions is their blatant disregard of the history of the religion they claim to practice. You cannot understand a religion, nation, philosophy or person without knowing the history of the respective subjects.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

They don't worship the wall, silly.

They worship AT the wall.

 

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yeah there was a group of people that once worshiped AT the Golden Calf the same way...they knew it wasn't god since they made it themselves, so they felt the need for something solid to look at while they prayed to god who was leading them daily...and God did not take kindly to that!

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
[more

i cant' agree with this statement least not scripturally. kabblala is the deap understanding and this is the root of satanism.

Important issue. However, the truth- The Real Truth! can not be civilly discussed in this or any other forum. Wanna piss off a Jew? Tell them the truth. They'll turn rabid in a heartbeat, right along with their Christian (clueless) defenders and water-carriers.

These discussions are cute, but so far from what is true and fact, it is not worth the anguish to try and correct any of it.

Originally posted by spannera
kabblala is the deap understanding and this is the root of satanism.

Kabbalah is the root of Satanism? Wow, this place just keeps getting amuzing. Where do some of you come up with this stuff?

Reply to post by spannera

Ummm … on one hand you say Khazars are not Jews, then you say the diverted to Judaism.

If they converted, that would make them Jews.




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Reply to post by be4ne1

Ha.

Please tell me the truth.

I will be waiting.


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reply to post by CasiusIgnoranze

Hey Cassius Ignoranze

It seems that the Apocalypse of Yohanon the Levite (most of chapter 1 & the text beginning with chapter 4) was originally an Aramaic Poem with 24-line stanzas, written by a Judaean Priest in exile c. 69 CE during the outbreak of the 1st Failed Jewish War against Rome (c. 66-72 CE) - the year 69 marked an hiatus or break in the fighting, and the book seems to have been a propaganda tract for 'the elect of the lost sheep of the house of Yisro'el scattered among the goyim' in Asia to rise up against their Roman oppressors abroad...

The socalled 7-letters allegedly address to the so-called '7-yahadim of the Elect of Yisroel scattered amongst the Gentiles in Asia' (attribed to Yohanon the Diviner, whoever he was) seem to be formulaic and somewhat manufactured from smaller scraps of correspondence and Messianic poetry - the 7 yahadim ('congregations') as viewed from tiny Patmos Island form a 7 branched Menorah form (if you connect the cities like Ephesus, Sardis, and Pergamom etc. back to Patmos)

Here is the FORMULA from which the 7=-fake letters were composed - with its parts explained

DECLARATION of SPEAKER

And the Angel said to me, Write to the Mebakker at [such and such a place]

Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit of the Most High speaks to the Yahadim in Asia - These are the words of him who (xxxx) - e.g. holds the seven stars in his right hand, or walks between the 7 lights etc.)

DECLARATION OF Speaker BEING ABLE TO SEE

It is I who know the inward the hearts and kidneys of all the sons of men...behold I know all of your Mitzvot ('works, commandments, deeds') etc.

BLESSINGS of the Messiah to THOSE WHO LISTEN / REPENT & CURSES for those who Do Not

Repent ! Re-dedicate yourself to xxx (e.g. to performing the Chief Mitzvot ('main-commandments') -

For if you do not listen and do not repent, I will... (xxx)

(e.g. come upon you sudddenly and remove your Menorah from its lampstand...).

Amen, to him who endures to the very end with Patience - even unto Death in Victory, I will grant..xxxx

.(e.g. the Right to eat from the Tree of Chayyim which is in midst of the Garden of EL)

But there seems to have been originally (10) of these Blessings-Curses formulae, not 7 - matching what was called the Yomei Aseret Teshuvah - the 10 Days of Repentance, the period between the Feast of Trumpets/Rosh Hashannah & Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) in 2nd Temple times (c. 300 BCE to 70 CE) when the High Priest at Jerusalem would 'seal' Israel for the coming year (sound familiar? ) to make prophecies for the same period...

Fragments of Blessings v. Curses for # 8, 9 and 10 can be found scattered , You'll notice they don't fit where they are:

e.g. Rev 7:16-17

To he who endures until the End with patience unto death,
I shall grant that they shall never again starve or be thirsty.
The sun will not beat down on them,’ nor any scorching heat torment them longer.
17 For He who sits in the midst of the Throne will be their shepherd;
‘he will lead them to drink from springs of living water.’

Rev 14:2-13

12 This calls for Patience & Endurance on the part of the people of YHWH who keep Torah Commandments & remain faithful to it Then I heard a voice from heaven “Write this: Blessed are the dead who are killed fighting for YHWH from now on.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, their deeds will follow them.”

Rev 16:15 Behold, I shall come upon you like a thief in the night - blessed is that [Priest] who stays alert at his post [in the temple of EL] and remains clothed, so as not to be stripped naked by the Night Watchmen & shamefully exposed.”

Rev. 19:9 9 Then the Watcher said to me, “Yohanon, Write ! These are the True and Faithful Oracles of EL Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!”

Rev 21:6 Then the Watcher said to me, “Yohanon, Write ! Yohanon, Write ! These are the True and Faithful Oracles of EL : These are the words of the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

"To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. To those who are victorious, they will inherit the land of Yisroel for 1000 generations, where I will be their clan-god and they will be my sons ! "

Rev 22:4-5 4 To those who endure [with patience unto the End even unto death], will see the Face [of YHWH] and his name will be on their foreheads - and there will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for their clan god YHWH will give them light. And they will reign as kings and priests over the gentiles for ever and ever.

Rev 22:14 14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city..."

2B contd

reply to post by CasiusIgnoranze

Hey Cassius Ignoranze - Cont’d from earlier post -

Since the Apocalypse of Yohanon (c. 69 CE) seems to be a compilation of more than one set of earlier writings (cf: the 10-pronouncements of the Messiah (blessings/curses) that were later re-worked into a 7-part letter to the [‘yahadim’ i.e. churches scattered amonst the gentiles in Asia] – one must be careful to separate out the strands very carefully in the ‘Book of Revelation’ which may have more than one author.

It could well be that the core of the non-formulaic passages of the ‘artificial letters to the 7 churches’ were part of a separate document complaining about apostasy and heresy in various Aramaic speaking Nazorean churches in Palestine BEFORE the war (66-72 CE) and also to those Greek Speaking Nazorean (anti-Gentile) Messianic-minded synagogues scattered in the Diaspora (e.g. at Ephesus, Sardis, Pergamum etc.)

The Author of these diatribes against apostasy is uninown – possibly the same Yohanon compiler of chapters 4-22 but at the very least seems to be a staunch Messianic ‘torah-abiding’ (a follower of early Messianic Nazorean gentile-haters who kept to the old Kashrut diet, and obeyed the Ma’aseh haTorah – the works of the law) who spoke out against certain RIVAL Messianic ‘christian’ groups who were flouting Torah etc. and also against groups that employed e.g. females claiming to be prophetesses (calling her ‘a Jezebel’ ), as well as against a certain group whose founder seems to have ‘falsely’ claimed himself to be ‘an apostle’ and also ‘falsly’ claimed himself to be a ‘Jew’ – who flouted Torah and preached another gospel from the Nazorean Messianic Torah-abiders.

This last group was certainly targeted in many places in these letter-fragments in Revelation (e.g. Rev. 2:2 and Rev 3:9) - directed against what could only have been the so-called Pauline ‘Christians’ in Asia who followed ‘Saul of Tarsus’ (in present day Turkey) whose followers (‘calls themselves Jews but are not, but are of the Synagogue of Satan…’ (=haYahad Belial)) who preached an anti-Nazorean anti-Torah pro-Gentile ‘Salvation by faith alone’ doctrine (thereby flouting the Ma’aseh ha Torah – ‘commandments of EL’) and who went around ‘calling themselves Apostles, but are not…’

The Pauline Churches were IN DIRECT CONFRONTATION to the original Nazorean torah-abiding ‘churches’ ‘of Iesous’ – who even after the execution of their leader still demanded circumcision /Torah abidance / Kashrut diet – and there is a recurring refrain throughout The Apocalypse of Yohanon (‘Book of Revelation’), with phrases such as ee.g. ‘hold fast to the Torah of EL which was handed down to you’ or ‘remember to keep the chief commandments of Torah’, or ‘even all those who were faithful to the Oracles (‘words’) of EL and clung to the Commandments of EL’ etc. – all of which is quite contrary to Pauline doctrines of ‘salvation by faith alone’ –

And it is very significant that most of the harder to recruit Nazorean Messianic based churches (such as the group the writer of Jude, James and the Book of Revelation certainly belonged to) which held fast to the Torah of Moses as a tool of salvation were virtually wiped out during the 1st failed Jewish War against Rome (66-72 CE), - and that is one of the main reasons why virtually all surviving ‘Christian churches’ to this day are basically ‘Pauline’ churches – the Paulinists were gentile friendly and managed to survive the Roman onslaught - and this is why when one reads very closely the contents and ‘theologies’ of e.g. the Epistles of ‘James’ & ‘Jude’ along with the so-called ‘Book of Revelation’ we can see such a VAST inimical difference in Weltanschauung when compared line for line with all the so-called Torah-hating, anti Circumcision 'Pauline' letters..

So who are these ‘persons who call themselves Jews but are not, but rather are of the synagogue of Satan’ ? To the writer of the ‘book of Revelation’ ?

A simple answer is that it ONLY could have been the followers of Paul and his various supporting antiTorah anti Kashrut, AntiCircumcisiion groups (cf: Marcion 90 years later)

Clear as mud?

reply to post by CasiusIgnoranze


these are the kabalistic Jews whom are pushing for the new world order and whom have betrayed their GOD the YHVH, and turn to worship Satan. they are NOT at the top of the conspiracy to rule the world they have just chosen to worship satan and help bring about the new world order or mystery Babylon as it is called in revelation. notice that the woman who rides the beast is speaking of the catholic church, so the Jesuits are very powerful and the Vatican has alot to do with the NWO. there are gentiles that converted to Judaism but do not have Hebrew blood.
what we should take from those passages is that in the end times "Jews" would not be following the mosaic laws
and would have turned to worship satan. a very good example are the rothschilds. they could be jews by blood but leviticly they are satanic.

i would suggest you do a study on the tribe of dan as it is omitted from inheritance in the book of revelation.
this implies that there would turn against GOD so these things written thousands of years ago validate the scriptures even more.
some say the tribe of dan is where the antichrist will emerge from but thats a study on another topic

reply to post by CasiusIgnoranze


it refers to all Jews. Those who accepted Jesus Christ as the promised one of God became the Christian congregation. when Jesus changed the law from the Mosaic law to God's new covenant it opened the way for the gentiles to become reconciled to God when they did accept Jesus, as the faithful Jews did. The apostles were Jew's, but they accepted Jesus as the appointed King over mankind & were also rejected by the Jew's along with Jesus. Jesus referred to the Jewish scribes and pharasee's as making a mockery of the law because they tried to say he sinned for healing a man on the sabbath. He replied that it was fine to do a good thing on the Sabbath & they could not refute his reasoning. They considered it harvesting & reaping to pick a head of corn while walking along & this was forbidden, along with walking more than a certain number of steps... It was the 'learned' priests who got Jesus killed for exposing their hypocrisy. They lived like kings, & enslaved the people with unGodly laws.God's 'New Israel' are the followers of Christ from all nations & tongues & tribes. They are obedient to the laws as God gave them, they do not change them to suit themselves, & try to live with honesty & integrity to God in everything they do, as Jesus did. The Jews were rejected by God when they rejected Jesus. I think it was the prophet Ezekiel that told the Jews what they had done wrong & that no longer would they be Gods special people, but it might have been Isiah. God did plead with the Jews to turn around from their bad course, & be cleansed by him, but they didn't want to. God told them to kill the canaanites in the promised land so that they would remain clean from their pagan practices. The Israelites thought they knew better & let them stay, tainting the pure worship of God when they adopted some of the practices of Canaan.

Arthur Koesler wrote a very good book entitled, The Thirteenth Tribe. Well worth reading, make of it what you will!!!

Originally posted by be4ne1
Important issue. However, the truth- The Real Truth! can not be civilly discussed in this or any other forum. Wanna piss off a Jew? Tell them the truth. They'll turn rabid in a heartbeat, right along with their Christian (clueless) defenders and water-carriers.

These discussions are cute, but so far from what is true and fact, it is not worth the anguish to try and correct any of it.

You couldn't even remain civil in a single post.

I'm pretty sure most of them are democrats.

Originally posted by CasiusIgnoranze
Before you read on, please don't get the wrong idea because I do not intend to to cause any offence in this thread. Peace.

Revelation 2:9
King James Version

"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

Revelation 3:9
King James Version

"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee."

Could this actually be conclusive proof that the Bible is referring to the Zionist Conspiracy to bring forth the New World Order though World War 3 who don't represent the actual innocent Jewish People at all?

Would like your thoughts on this.

Peace.

edit on 31-10-2011 by CasiusIgnoranze because: .

This is also very interesting to me. I cant wait to hit my dad with your scripture verse. He and I have been going back and forth with this very idea.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

For some reason ATS is a hotbed for antiSemitism. I've never seen it so vicious and abundant as I've seen it here.

Except they are not being "antisemitic" because over 90% of people that call themselves "jews" today are NOT semites and have absolutely NO connection to the tribe of Judah or the Hebrews in the Bible. This is fact.

Reply to post by eddiebelfast

So what does this author say about DNA proof or the significance of conversion?


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Originally posted by SecondAmendmentUser

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

For some reason ATS is a hotbed for antiSemitism. I've never seen it so vicious and abundant as I've seen it here.

Except they are not being "antisemitic" because over 90% of people that call themselves "jews" today are NOT semites and have absolutely NO connection to the tribe of Judah or the Hebrews in the Bible. This is fact.

Antisemitic means anti-jew.

That is the most common definition and has been used since the term was coined.

Etymology FTW

ETA: DNA has proven a common ME ancestor group for both Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews.

Get with the times, dude.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
]

Antisemitic means anti-jew.

That is the most common definition and has been used since the term was coined.

Who "coined" the phrase?

LOL

Except we are not talking about REAL jews (Hebrews) are we? No.