So who exactly are these "Fake Jews" mentioned in Revelations 2:9 and 3:9?

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posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


On who the "fake jews" are.


My conjecture is that it's Jews who reject Christ as the Messiah. It's hard to tell exactly since it's been a point of contention by Biblical scholars for nearly 2,000 years.


So basically, the entire modern jewish population.


Unless of course they perform a miraculous 180 degree turn, and discard 2000 years of hating Jesus and accept him as the messiah.


Let's forget for a minute that there are millions of Jews who are Christians.

You could have said the same about Paul the day before he began his journey on the road to Damascus. Point being, until a man or woman dies only the Lord in heaven knows whether or not they are elect and will accept Christ as their Lord and Savior.




posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by Chamberf=6
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


So are you saying that you don't claim the bible is true?

btw: Thanks Dr. Dictionary but I know what arbitrary means. You could also have said it means w/o Reason. lol


I didn't say that at all. Words mean something.

"Arbitrary" has several meanings, I have no idea if you arrived at your conjecture with reason or not so in our current discussion that particular definition is irrelevant.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 01:26 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 




Let's forget for a minute that there are millions of Jews who are Christians.


If you are referring to the "messianic jews" movement, its the other way round.
Its christians trying to be jews... and the jews dont like them one bit. Because Jesus is incompatible with their religion, Judaism. Go ask a Rabbi.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 




Let's forget for a minute that there are millions of Jews who are Christians.


If you are referring to the "messianic jews" movement, its the other way round.
Its christians trying to be jews... and the jews dont like them one bit. Because Jesus is incompatible with their religion, Judaism. Go ask a Rabbi.



There are several Jews in my church as we speak. When they accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior did that immediately nullify their mothers and fathers being Jews?



Did Paul cease being of the tribe of Benjamin on the road to Damascus? Because if so, the Holy Spirit lied in Acts 21:39.



edit on 1-11-2011 by NOTurTypical because: Wrong verse



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 01:48 AM
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reply to post by subject1145
 


Believe it or not,the Khazars are mostly of Asian decent.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by CasiusIgnoranze
 

it's likely they are referring to Samaritans

The Samaritans often taunted the Jews. They rejected all of the Old Testament except the Pentateuch, and they claimed to have an older copy than the Jews and boast that they observe the precepts better.

The Jews repaid them with hatred. They rejected the Samaritan copy of the law and publicly denounced that Samaritans were of any Jewish birth (John 4:12).
www.bible-history.com...



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 01:54 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 




There are several Jews in my church as we speak. When they accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior did that immediately nullify their mothers and fathers being Jews?


My apologies. I thought you were referring to the messianic jew movement.
I assumed that because I have come across many christians who dont suspect that the messianic Jew movement is actually christianity in a jewish costume.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 




There are several Jews in my church as we speak. When they accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior did that immediately nullify their mothers and fathers being Jews?


My apologies. I thought you were referring to the messianic jew movement.
I assumed that because I have come across many christians who dont suspect that the messianic Jew movement is actually christianity in a jewish costume.


No need to apologize, no offense taken. Do these people lose their Jewish blood when they accept Christ as their Lord and Savior? Of course they don't.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 02:11 AM
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There have been way too many religious threads in the past week on ATS.

To answer the OPs question what the Bible is talking about are people that claim to be Jews in public, but in fact are not practicing Jews and do not follow the rules of the Bible/Torah.

We see this all the time where people will claim to be Christians for political gain, but in fact are sinners (according to the Bible) by cheating on their wives, usury, killing people, etc.

Note: I do not believe the Bible is the word of God.

/thread



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 02:12 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 




Do these people lose their Jewish blood when they accept Christ as their Lord and Savior? Of course they don't.


Jews also dont lose jewish blood when they reject all religion and become atheists.

Which is why, jewish atheists are more welcome in Israel than a "jew for jesus".
www.nytimes.com...

What matters is Jewish blood...



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 02:14 AM
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reply to post by Rhino5
 



There have been way too many religious threads in the past week on ATS.


Because you say so?

What themed threads should we make and discuss in the Religion forums here?





posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 02:26 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Rhino5
 



There have been way too many religious threads in the past week on ATS.


Because you say so?

What themed threads should we make and discuss in the Religion forums here?




Something that is actually conspiracy related. This particular thread has no conspiracy involved in it. For example, a thread in the religious could be about the NWO creating the Religious Right to control the masses and to gain more power on society.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 02:32 AM
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reply to post by Rhino5
 



Hey, I agree, to call this thread conspiracy related is a stretch, but that's not at all what you said above. You complained about your perception that there are a rash of "religious" threads lately here on ATS.

So my question addressed your postulation. You could have complained to a moderator that this thread belongs in the RF&T forum instead of insulting people who enjoy debating/discussing religious-themed topics here. There are many extremely educated and bright people here from numerous areas of expertise and education. This is a great place for the free exchange of ideas.

Your post came off as quite rude to be honest.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 03:36 AM
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Let's please stick to the topic and leave the moderating to the moderators.

Thanks.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:43 AM
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reply to post by CasiusIgnoranze
 


I will have to study this link.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by CasiusIgnoranze

Originally posted by subject1145
From what I have looked into I believe this references the Ashkenazi Jews Who were Jews of Eastern European decent and not Hebrew. They were converted to Judaism around 400 AD or so. Not sure if this is accurate but I wanted to add what I could to help.


Hasn't this claim been debunked several times though?

Debunking the 'Fake Jew' AKA The 'Khazarian Jew' Myth
edit on 31-10-2011 by CasiusIgnoranze because: .


Arthur Koestler's book The Thirteenth Tribe lays it all out, and I think Koestler (a Jew) was a better writer and scholar than his detractors/debunkers. He and his wife were both murdered by persons unknown at the height of the controversy over the book. It is now hard to find, and as far as I know, out of print. I do have a copy. I see no reason to doubt his conclusions.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by CasiusIgnoranze
 


It's talking about the Khazar invasion of the Jewish people. The people who call themselves Jews are ancestors of Khazars and NOT Judeans. Judeans stole the religion from Sumerians. Khazars stole the WHOLE IDENTITY of Judeans.

Basically.

THAT is what that is referring to.


Again, bloodline ancestral claims have no place in the Hebrew religion. This is proven throughout the Torah.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 




Let's forget for a minute that there are millions of Jews who are Christians.


If you are referring to the "messianic jews" movement, its the other way round.
Its christians trying to be jews



It is actually both both sections. Jews and Christians trying to live life according to YHWH, who also believe that Yeshua is the promised Messiah.


... and the jews dont like them one bit.


Correction. The ORTHODOX do not like us much, because it infringes on their power and authority.


Because Jesus is incompatible with their religion, Judaism. Go ask a Rabbi.



Yeshua is quite compatible, if you take away the Talmud and ditch some of the dumb translations in the KJV.

Funny to say that a Jewish rabbi, teaching the Jewish religion, is incompatible with said Jewish religion.

Oxymoronic.

The problem is that the way Christianity has been taught and interpreted throughout the last 1800 years is not compatible. If you actually look at the teachings, the New Testament fits quite well with the Old Testament.

And then you have a Pharisee who studied under Gamliel (Shaul) giving his reasoning. The problem is that Shaul (Paul) is very hard to understand and easily misinterpreted. This was even said of him by Peter, in the scriptures. In fact, Peter told people to be careful because Paul's words could so easily be misconstrued to mean something else. Add on top of that, the translations from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English.

The rule to go buy is that scripture must rectify itself with scripture. Just as the Talmud can't supersede Torah, the New Testament can't supersede Torah. If either the Talmud or the NT disagree with Torah, it is either a faulty translation or interpretation.


Christians are turning to their Hebrew roots, and Jews are turning to their Messiah in ever growing numbers. Better more, it was prophesied as such.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 




Let's forget for a minute that there are millions of Jews who are Christians.


If you are referring to the "messianic jews" movement, its the other way round.
Its christians trying to be jews... and the jews dont like them one bit. Because Jesus is incompatible with their religion, Judaism. Go ask a Rabbi.






Jesus Christ is very much compatible with the Hebrew religion in Hebrew his name is Yashua HaMashicah both meaning the anointed one. The Jews just don't believe he has arrived yet , the messianic Jews have correctly divided the word searching scripture to draw their conclusions.

The vast majority of Jews that read from the Talmud will never believe that Jesus was their messiah because that book full of the opinions of so called famous rabbis is full of hate which is not Gods way which makes it not from God and void of His word.

As I stated earlier on this post the Pharisees that put Jesus to death were the offspring of Satan John 8:44. These same non Levitical priests of that day still infiltrate the Jewish religion at the highest levels and also have
infiltrated all christian sects.............The parable of the wheat and tares are physical people not just a metaphor . These are who we are warned of in the book of Revelation meaning the unveiling.

Satan has children that do his bidding preparing the way for him , hence the NWO and all groups trying to bring this to fruition.
edit on 1-11-2011 by Noey777 because: Spelling



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 




There are several Jews in my church as we speak. When they accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior did that immediately nullify their mothers and fathers being Jews?


My apologies. I thought you were referring to the messianic jew movement.
I assumed that because I have come across many christians who dont suspect that the messianic Jew movement is actually christianity in a jewish costume.


You are waaaay wrong. In fact, I have talked to quite a few Jews who believe in the Messiah, but continue practicing Judaism.

Obviously, in the western world, there will be more Christains joining the movement than Jews. It is simple numbers.

Because one follows YHWH's commands, that does not mean that they are just Christains in a Jewish costume. That is ridiculous.


Oh, and for the record:





And let's not forget Bob Dylan . . . He is OBVIOUSLY a Christian in a Jew costume



It is happening, and you can deny it all you want.

The fact is that it was prophesied to happen is enough proof.


That being said . . . are there posers? Heck yes. Just as there are anywhere. All that matters is that we are doing what YHWH said to do. We can let Him sort out the issues.

edit on 11/1/2011 by Lemon.Fresh because: (no reason given)
edit on 11/1/2011 by Lemon.Fresh because: (no reason given)





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