Occupy Labor Unions

reply to post by NadaCambia

Would these Unions you claim to be the 1% be the same Unions that spear headed the civil rights movement and are responsible for everything that's good about the countries we live in. Go look at countries with decent Labor Unions and those without and rethink your silly thread. People who attack Unions have NFI what they're talking about.

wait........so unions good , but corporations are bad...........even tho you have to have one of considerable size to have a union...........wow do people even SEE their own hypocrisy?

Plus ive yet to see anyone address the issue with the fact that they made so many huge special interest donations........

All you guys have done is attack the OP.............come on now, put your money where your mouth is........or better yet, stop OCCUPYING HYPOCRISY..........

You want to stop "buying off" of politicians........better start protesting your unions too

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by NadaCambia

 

Would these Unions you claim to be the 1% be the same Unions that spear headed the civil rights movement and are responsible for everything that's good about the countries we live in. Go look at countries with decent Labor Unions and those without and rethink your silly thread. People who attack Unions have NFI what they're talking about.

wait........so unions good , but corporations are bad...........even tho you have to have one of considerable size to have a union...........wow do people even SEE their own hypocrisy?

Plus ive yet to see anyone address the issue with the fact that they made so many huge special interest donations........

All you guys have done is attack the OP.............come on now, put your money where your mouth is........or better yet, stop OCCUPYING HYPOCRISY..........

You want to stop "buying off" of politicians........better start protesting your unions too

back when i worked for my home town as a city employee, we had an option to start a union there, the law only required 10 people sign on to officially call it a union. although we would have joined a larger union for representation, it only makes sense. and no large corporations aren't the only places you find unions.

by the way there where 16 of us, a smallish town. we voted not to unionize. 6 months later the city cut its public works department to 4 employees. the director, my boss resigned rather than to have to choose who got the axe. so in retrospect, i really wish they and unionized. that year the city police department doubled in size and budget....

There is nothing Democratic about unions take it from someone who know what the hell they are talking about class warfare higher senority rules and if you don't have it your are nothing less than nothing in fact.

The union comes first and only and doesn't matter what you have to say about want a job your union and you have to pay them a fee for the "priviilege" of working.

The employer pays you but you have to pay a union to work messed up in so many ways unless you ever been in one you will never have any clue.

Communist is what unions are no individuality whatsoever exists within one.

reply to post by neo96

The union comes first and only and doesn't matter what you have to say about want a job your union and you have to pay them a fee for the "priviilege" of working. The employer pays you but you have to pay a union to work messed up in so many ways unless you ever been in one you will never have any clue.

Even after paying the union you still bring home more than the same job in a non-union industry.
Source:www.bls.gov...
You won't make enough to be in the 1%, but every little bit helps.
As far as occupying unions goes, that's just ridiculous, unions have always fought for the little guy.
The kind of industries that are unionized usually maintain a fairly symbiotic relationship with society, generally they produce useful goods and services that benefit humanity. They're not out there gambling away everyone's 401k's on derivatives.

Unionists are hypocrites. Name me one union official who has taken an equal paycut when asking his members to strike?

Just one would do!

They are leeches on workers

'Occupy mental assylums' becuase they're all empty due to the protests

Before everyone starts union bashing, here are some quotes to ponder


With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any other organization of men that ever existed. They have done more for decency, for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race, for the developing of character in man, than any other association of men.
Clarence Darrow

"All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms is treason. If a man tells you he trusts America, yet fears labor, he is a fool. There is no America without labor, and to fleece the one is to rob the other."
Abraham Lincoln

"If capitalism is fair then unionism must be. If men have a right to capitalize their ideas and the resources of their country, then that implies the right of men to capitalize their labor."
Frank Lloyd Wright

"The labor movement means just this: It is the last noble protest of the American people against the power of incorporated wealth."
Wendell Phillips

"The American labor movement has consistently demonstrated its devotion to the public interest. It is, and has been, good for all America. Those who would destroy or further limit the rights of organized labor--those who cripple collective bargaining or prevent organization of the unorganized--do a disservice to the cause of democracy."
John F. Kennedy

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."
Abraham Lincoln

My friends, it is solidarity of labor we want. We do not want to find fault with each other, but to solidify our forces and say to each other: "We must be together; our masters are joined together and we must do the same thing."
Mother Jones

Cheers,
brice

AFL CIO Richard Trumka admits to using unions to change America

www.theblaze.com... otiate-members-salaries/

Originally posted by brice
Before everyone starts union bashing, here are some quotes to ponder


With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any other organization of men that ever existed. They have done more for decency, for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race, for the developing of character in man, than any other association of men.
Clarence Darrow

"All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms is treason. If a man tells you he trusts America, yet fears labor, he is a fool. There is no America without labor, and to fleece the one is to rob the other."
Abraham Lincoln

"If capitalism is fair then unionism must be. If men have a right to capitalize their ideas and the resources of their country, then that implies the right of men to capitalize their labor."
Frank Lloyd Wright

"The labor movement means just this: It is the last noble protest of the American people against the power of incorporated wealth."
Wendell Phillips

"The American labor movement has consistently demonstrated its devotion to the public interest. It is, and has been, good for all America. Those who would destroy or further limit the rights of organized labor--those who cripple collective bargaining or prevent organization of the unorganized--do a disservice to the cause of democracy."
John F. Kennedy

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."
Abraham Lincoln

My friends, it is solidarity of labor we want. We do not want to find fault with each other, but to solidify our forces and say to each other: "We must be together; our masters are joined together and we must do the same thing."
Mother Jones

Cheers,
brice

Doesn't matter because government and media want everyone slaving for nothing and have propagandized most peoples minds with "Unions are for evil Commies" type rhetoric. At best these anti-Union people will say something like "Unions are okay in theory but they don't work in reality" or some other such nonsense

Common sense and fact will not change the minds of people in this thread who are ignorant to the world around them. They will never accept that Unions have played a large part in making our societies as great as they are. They don't realise that without Unions we'd be in sweat shops, or they don't care, because they're financially successful and such working conditions wouldn't apply to them

These people would rather see Western nations flooded with immigrants to undermine workers rights and improve their own position. It's despicable.

Thank you for the quotes, unfortunately with an American majority on ATS the anti-Union elite propaganda will no doubt come through loudest and clearest

Originally posted by neo96
There is nothing Democratic about unions take it from someone who know what the hell they are talking about class warfare higher senority rules and if you don't have it your are nothing less than nothing in fact.

The union comes first and only and doesn't matter what you have to say about want a job your union and you have to pay them a fee for the "priviilege" of working.

The employer pays you but you have to pay a union to work messed up in so many ways unless you ever been in one you will never have any clue.

Communist is what unions are no individuality whatsoever exists within one.

Nobody is going to take any argument from you, you're a Capitalist on steroids and prove yourself time and time again in these threads to talk complete nonsense.

But well done on managing to go a few posts without mentioning how much money you have and how hard you've worked to be as great as you are

here's the problem, the way i see it:

unions have good points and bad points. the good points tend to outweigh the bad points, but only under normal economic conditions. in hard times, however, their bad points outweigh their good points. common sense seems to suggest, that if times are rough, the leaders would be the first to set an example. i mean we expect that from our political figures, our religious leaders, ourselves, etc, so why not from the unions?

i understand their concern over losing too much of their clout thru all this, but clearly, people will still need protection from some business owners 10 years from now, so any clout they lost would by nature filter back to them again. also, unions can become oppressive and obsessive, if paired with a socialist agenda. if it's just protecting the workers, that's a good union, but if it's also wielding its clout to influence political decisions, it can have its own agenda written into law, and that's not what unions are for.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

OWS does not stand for left or right.

Ypu're confusing political alignment with political aprties. Don't worry, happens to a lot of people who generally have no clue. The policies espoused by OWS are economically and even politically "left" - at least, compared to the current political climate of America. A step back from blind adherence to lasseiz-faire economics, a return to days of financial regulations... Hell, OWS is probably more "conservative" than anyone claiming ot be a "conservative," these days

It is against government corruption and the the greedy 1% who influence elections with political contributions.

And you have to be a snarling idiot to honestly believe that "the unions" wield such influence. Funny how almost every single politician in Washington is anti-union, isn't it? And how anti-union, anti-labor, anti-worker policies are the norm. And how there's an increasing, rather than decreasing trend in "right to work" state policies. And the endless media bashing of organized labor, and so on and so forth.

By the by? Labor hardly spends as much as you claim. I know it's fun to make # up and pretend it's true, but you might want to keep in mind, this information is both free and easy to access. The only people you fool are either stupid or lazy.

OWS do not let anyone hijack your movement.

March on the labor unions at once!

And I think I've just had my daily dosage of irony

Originally posted by neo96
There is nothing Democratic about unions

Except the voting, the group consensus, the ability for members to veto, the open participation...

Oh wait. Do you just not know what "democratic" means? I forgot who I was speaking to.

take it from someone who know what the hell they are talking about

In other words, not you.

class warfare higher senority rules and if you don't have it your are nothing less than nothing in fact.

In the workplace? Yeah, seniority rules. Those longest in the job are first considered for promotion. it's a method of preventing the boss from "stacking hte deck" with his own personal crew, or more practically, from appointing some cluless kid to manage experienced workers because said kid has a bumper sticker slogan the boss likes.

Tell me Neo, what sort of job do you have? I mean aside from the one where you make a nickel per post on ATS.

The union comes first and only and doesn't matter what you have to say about want a job your union and you have to pay them a fee for the "priviilege" of working.

The employer pays you but you have to pay a union to work messed up in so many ways unless you ever been in one you will never have any clue.

And judging by your lacked of clues, I can only guess that you have never been in a union. Frankly I doubt you've had a job with even bare potential to be organized ("professional catfish noodler" isn't really an industry, after all)

Union dues go towards the functions the union provides for you. I pay $25 a month for an organization that will go to bat for me in disputes with my boss, stand in my corner if I'm facing termination, provides me the ability to have a say in my own contract, ensure my right to a regular schedule, days off, vacation and holiday time, and the right to not be fired if I fall ill.

All that for $25 a month. I pay $30 a month for a a World of Warcraft and an Age of Conan subscription. I work eight hours, five days a week. I play these games maybe three times a week, at less than four hours each. Guess which expenditure gives me more bang for my buck?

Communist is what unions are no individuality whatsoever exists within one.

Really? 'Cause my union members are a pretty varied lot. They even include several people who sound just like you (but still run to our union rep when they're shorted on their paycheck. Funny, that). Just off the top of my head, there'sme, the punk socialist. Two other avowed socialists, one an old-school flower child, the other more of an "intellectual" sort. There's the gun-toting libertarian who right now is using his vacation time to bag deer in Western Washington. Oh, and the Kenyan dude who hates obama so much that he insists the guy is actually from Uganda... That's out of a unionized staff of about seventy-five. Yeah, no variety at all...

The biggest myth about labor unions is that unions are for workers. Unions are for unions, just as corporations are for corporations and politicians are for politicians.

Nothing shows the utter cynicism of the unions and the politicians who do their bidding like the so-called “Employee Free Choice Act” that the Obama administration tried to push through Congress. Employees’ free choice as to whether to join a union is precisely what that legislation would destroy.
Workers already have a free choice in secret-ballot elections conducted under existing laws. As more and more workers in the private sector have voted to reject having a union represent them, the unions’ answer has been to take away secret-ballot elections.
Under the “Employee Free Choice Act,” unions would not have to win in secret-ballot elections in order to represent the workers. Instead, union representatives could simply collect signatures from the workers until they had a majority. Why do we have secret ballots in the first place, whether in elections for unions or elections for government officials? To prevent intimidation and allow people to vote the way they want to — without fear of retaliation.

Union Myths

I cannot argue with this at all.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Louisville International Airport ,Louisville,Kentucky 1991-2001 Teamster Local 89

I know what the hell i am talking about.

The day they went on strike is the day they became my enemy unions do not pay my bills.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

Louisville International Airport ,Louisville,Kentucky 1991-2001 Teamster Local 89

I know what the hell i am talking about.

No, no you don't. In fact you just revealed yourself to be extra-clueless, because I was at least extending the benefit of the doubt that you had never worked under a union. Oh well. So what are you doing now?

The day they went on strike is the day they became my enemy

I guess your philosophy is "any contract is a good contract, just show me where to sign"?

unions do not pay my bills.

Not directly. But their efforts are a large reason why you can pay your bills. Do you think you could pay them off on $4.25 an hour?

Originally posted by jlv70
reply to post by neo96

 

The union comes first and only and doesn't matter what you have to say about want a job your union and you have to pay them a fee for the "priviilege" of working. The employer pays you but you have to pay a union to work messed up in so many ways unless you ever been in one you will never have any clue.

Even after paying the union you still bring home more than the same job in a non-union industry.
Source:www.bls.gov...
You won't make enough to be in the 1%, but every little bit helps.
As far as occupying unions goes, that's just ridiculous, unions have always fought for the little guy.
The kind of industries that are unionized usually maintain a fairly symbiotic relationship with society, generally they produce useful goods and services that benefit humanity. They're not out there gambling away everyone's 401k's on derivatives.

edit on 31-10-2011 by jlv70 because: (no reason given)

Yes, there is truth in the Union worker bringing home a larger paycheck then the non-union counter part. But, in the case of say ATT VS Integra. ATT being a Unionized , and Integra being non-Unionized, ATT has a higher cost for services to the customer then Integra does.
Thus, Integra is having a larger amount of customer influx from ATT, Verizon, Qwest and the Bells.
Didn't Verizon just have a huge layoff? Wonder why?
Oh yeah, they are loosing customers to companies with lower overhead, like Union Costs.

So, that larger pay check is nice an all, but in the long run, you are basically cutting your wrists for a larger paycheck.

No thanks.

Originally posted by neo96
There is nothing Democratic about unions take it from someone who know what the hell they are talking about class warfare higher senority rules and if you don't have it your are nothing less than nothing in fact.

The union comes first and only and doesn't matter what you have to say about want a job your union and you have to pay them a fee for the "priviilege" of working.

The employer pays you but you have to pay a union to work messed up in so many ways unless you ever been in one you will never have any clue.

Communist is what unions are no individuality whatsoever exists within one.

Neo, don't you ever get tired of posting garbage?

It's obvious from your post that you actually know a lot less about unions than you think you do. Unions are in fact, the only form of fair representation that a worker may ever hope to have and I'd venture to say that your knowledge of their inner workings is not only severely limited, but it's also handicapped by your predetermined prejudices against them. Seems as though this thread is attracting a lot of ignorant anti-union rhetoric from people who actually have very limited experience with unions, but then that's what it was intended to do, wasn't it?

Most of the claims made in this thread by union bashers are at the very least extremely misleading, if not completely false. I know this to be true, because you see, I do actually have a little experience with unions. I worked in a union for 33 yrs. starting at age 16, (at that time it was easy to lie about your age) and I retired in 2005. During my career, I personally started or "chartered" two new unions, (by the way, it only takes ten people to do so) Furthermore, I served as an elected union official for over 20 yrs. and I was appointed to serve as one of 8 labor trustees, overseeing the investment management and administrative duties of our benefit trust funds in excess of 500 million dollars and I did so for the last 10 yrs. of my career.

I was in the union long before seniority ever existed and as a matter of fact, seniority was imposed on us by the courts. I was even in the union prior to integration and it was the courts that forced us to do that as well on April1, 1983. The corporate signatories to our collective bargaining agreements initiated law suits and forced the merge between the black and white unions as a means to reduce manning and labor cost. Both unions fought the actions for over 13yrs. and after the final ruling, manning was reduced by 50% and wages were reduced by 40%.

As A Matter Of Fact, It's against federal law for unions to utilize "Dues" for political purposes and workers don't pay for the right to work, they pay for the representation that negotiated the wages and benefits they enjoy as workers. Maybe you think those representatives should just volunteer their time spent negotiating those contracts, you know the same way lawyers volunteer their time in court representing a client? I've negotiated numerous collective bargaining agreements and I can tell you this, it's no cake walk!

I never earned more than $75,000 in a given year. I actually volunteered my services as union rep. for over 10yrs. and even our highest paid official, our International President in N.Y., never once received a million dollar bonus compared to most corporate CEOs who do so annually.

Union bashing is probably the most prevalent form of class warfare and it's been going on for over 30yrs. now, hence the reduction in union membership. This is the "real" class warfare taking place in this country and it's a war that's being waged by the corporate elite against the average american worker, not the other way around.

By the way, what did the union ever do to you? Did they fire your ass or what?

Originally posted by daggyz
Unionists are hypocrites. Name me one union official who has taken an equal paycut when asking his members to strike?

Just one would do!

They are leeches on workers

I'll do you one better than that! You're talking to a union representative who took the exact pay cuts as his membership and I walked the picket lines right along with them. I earned my living working shoulder to shoulder with the workers I represented, in the hold of a ship, and completely volunteered my time spent representing them. (a job that paid $70,000 annually prior to my election) To this day and forever more, my monthly pension is negatively affected by the time I spent representing my membership on a volunteer basis when I could have been working and earning greater retirement benefits.

Now if you could provide me with "Just One" corporate example of comparable selflessness, maybe you'd have a leg to stand on, but I'll bet you can't.

Furthermore, I would suggest that it is people like you who spew out unsubstantiated hatred for unions who are the actual "leeches on workers."

Originally posted by Flatfish

Originally posted by daggyz
Unionists are hypocrites. Name me one union official who has taken an equal paycut when asking his members to strike?

Just one would do!

They are leeches on workers

I'll do you one better than that! You're talking to a union representative who took the exact pay cuts as his membership and I walked the picket lines right along with them. I earned my living working shoulder to shoulder with the workers I represented, in the hold of a ship, and completely volunteered my time spent representing them. (a job that paid $70,000 annually prior to my election) To this day and forever more, my monthly pension is negatively affected by the time I spent representing my membership on a volunteer basis when I could have been working and earning greater retirement benefits.

Now if you could provide me with "Just One" corporate example of comparable selflessness, maybe you'd have a leg to stand on, but I'll bet you can't.

Furthermore, I would suggest that it is people like you who spew out unsubstantiated hatred for unions who are the actual "leeches on workers."

heres one
www.escapistmagazine.com...

there are plenty more too. but there is your just one.