United States v.s. Russia?

If Russia and U.S went head to head, even if one has a slight advantage in weaponry or technology over the other, they are equal(they could both destroy each other) and victory would go to either side depending on who wants it more and least likely to give up, most likely the one that gets attacked first has better chances of accumulating the hatred and the will to continue fighting sporadically even if their land is attacked and torched, less advanced weaponry is meaningless because there are lots of cases of guerrilla vs more advanced government victories. the one who gets attacked first would have a reason for rallying the whole country against another(imagine that, a country of people who may have innocent fellow country men or lost loved ones in a battle, willing to die? fighting not for a paycheck but for revenge? that's more threatening than if they had a bigger weapon(a rock,knife,bug sting, and an AK-47 could do the job of an m-16, much cheaper, and under the right conditions an overwhelming victory!)). That's not to say that a nuke or overwhelming invasion on capital can bring a quick decisive victory, but the zealous sporadic fighting could bring down your even your own capital with uncontrollable vengeance, it would be better to bring defeat politically and a peacefully annexiate the weaker one.

Originally posted by U.S. Patriot
The next event that we will probably see is the attack upon Israel by a coalition of Arab and ex-Soviet states, as written over 2500 years ago by the prophet EZEKIEL (see chapters 38, and 39), who describes this attack and identifies these nations as: Gog of the land of Magog, of Rosh, Mesheck and Tubal, (this area corresponds to parts of the ex Soviet Union) - Persia, (Iran) - Cush, (Ethiopia) - Put, (Libya) - Gomer, (parts of eastern Turkey and Ukraine) - and the house of Togarmah, (southern Turkey). (This attack will probably be a retaliation against Israel's prior nuclear attack on Syria, in which Damascus will be obliterated)

In this list we find some of Israel's most rabid enemies of our days. The ex-Soviet Moslem states have intensified contacts with fundamentalist Moslem countries like Iran, certainly one of the most fanatical enemies of Israel. We also have heard that Iran has acquired nuclear expertise and fission material from Russia and is always shopping for more. It's a well documented fact that Iran in particular, is constantly shopping for warfare technology, having no problem to pay for it through the sale of its petroleum while its population lives rather meagerly the joys of the revolution, come the news of Russia's sale of a powerful submarine to the Iranian fleet and a news report from the Iranian State Agency that Iran has just developed a missile capable of hitting Israel. Soon these nations will join together with the sole purpose of destroying Israel once and for all. But they are in for a big surprise, as is also the rest of the world.


The Bible expressly states that these nations will be defeated and destroyed, by a direct Act of God, both their armies and their home countries.

I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgement which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them.
So the house of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward.
Ezek. 39:21, 22
Though the verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 explain these events quite graphically, they will, nonetheless, leave the whole world gasping as they will unfold. Many will be the outcomes of this defeat, but we can name two main ones:

1) the end to Islam's expansion, (today easily the fastest growing religion) and to Arab bloody fundamentalism. (I will go one step further and say that this will be the end of Islam).

2) Israel will become the most influential nation on earth.

Only after this will Israel be able to build the Temple and experience a spiritual awakening, a prelude to her final conversion to the Lord Jesus Christ. Or does anybody in his right mind believes that Israel will be allowed to build the Temple as things stand presently, and with the two Moslem Mosques right in the Temple Wall area? Furthermore, Israel is as worldly and apostate as she can be, with only a small percentage of Jews desperately (and blindedly) clinging to their beloved Torah. This situation will reverse itself after the supernatural victory that God will grant Israel over their enemies.

The Temple must be built, because it is fundamental to the Tribulation period. The Antichrist will use it and so, it is obvious that before it can be built there must be a shakedown of the present situation. We know that preparations are being made for the sacrifices, (the "red heifer" news). The sacred vessels and the priest's garments are being readied, as are the the priests who will perform the rites.

We must keep our eyes focused upon Israel, God's timepiece!

lol plz stop drinking whatever you are drinking.

There's just way too much American bravado in this thread.

If these two giants were to butt heads in battle it would be very bad for all.

But in a scenario that does not include any WMD I think that Russia would immediate be on the defensive.

US troops are already in Iraq, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan and Turkey as well as Germany and Alaska.
From a strategic point of view , Russia is essentially surrounded.
A counter to this is the fact that Russia has never been successfully invaded. However the same can be said for Afghanistan, but it appears that has recently changed.
Also Russia has a world class army, (their special forces alone are a formidable force), their armed forces are tenacious and determined and they possess similar technologies to the US.

In the air I think the US would have an advantage (possibly only slight) due to technology advances that would be brought out of the "black"; and I only base this on things I have learned from former ATS member Intelgurl and the assumption that Russia may have similar "black projects" that could quickly become operational.

Lets see.
Russia has more soldiers and tanks. They pretty well out number us on the ground. I don't know how but they do. And on the basis of soldier versus soldier were about equal. Lets see in the air we have the advantage of having better planes do to the economic situation in Russia. They have better submarines. We have a better surface navy. They have better helicopters, we have an SDI program that could be pretty operational in just a few years. There special forces are probably a bit better. Meanwhile we out resource them. Its a war that would be up for grabs. Its hard to say who would win. I would say that thanks to economic changes in recent years the US would win. But all this is assuming that WMDs aren't used. If that happens not only are the two nations screwed, the whole planet is screwed.

Originally posted by cyberdude78
Lets see.
Russia has more soldiers and tanks. They pretty well out number us on the ground. I don't know how but they do. And on the basis of soldier versus soldier were about equal. Lets see in the air we have the advantage of having better planes do to the economic situation in Russia. They have better submarines. We have a better surface navy. They have better helicopters, we have an SDI program that could be pretty operational in just a few years. There special forces are probably a bit better. Meanwhile we out resource them. Its a war that would be up for grabs. Its hard to say who would win. I would say that thanks to economic changes in recent years the US would win. But all this is assuming that WMDs aren't used. If that happens not only are the two nations screwed, the whole planet is screwed.

The first part is correct. The Russian army does outnumber the US. In the mechanized world hoever, the Russians still has the largest tank force in the world but their advantage is in numbers. The main US battle tank M1A2 Abrams is able to offset this by 10-1 due to fire control, coordination and loading abilities, I don't know if the Russians have enough tanks to overcome this. Also, as was shown in the first Gulf War, Russian tanks were designed with a terrible flaw that severly cuts survivability. One shot from an M1A2 Abrams had a high probability of setting off the ammunition storage and thus, turning the tank into a firework whereas one instance of a M1A2 on the recieving end of a Russian tank (T-84 I believe, could be wrong on model) was knocked out of commision but the crew was all alive [The History Channel; Inside the KillBox, Operation Desert Storm].

In the Air, our bombers have stealth, but our fighters are well overdue for replacement (anyone else read in the news that the Air Force lost to India in a military exercise? By chance, does anyone think that was a "faked" loss?). That is our weaker side until the next generation fighters come online.

The Russian submarine force was the largest in the world. The russian building creed focused on speed and deep diving while the US navy relied on silence over the two. Because of the retirement of many of the submarines in the former Soviet navy, I am going to have to place my wager on the US. The Russians do not have the numbers advantage anymore.

I'm inclined to think that the helechopters are fairly balanced with some US favor. The main helechopter in the former Soviet army was the "Hind" and it was a cross breed between a transport and a gunship. It's flight characteristics are radically different than that of the AH-64 Apache gunship; but US forces have been participating in mock battles agianst captured Iraqi Hinds. I have heard that there are new Russian attack helechopters (KA-117 or something of the sort) in development, if someone could fill me in on that, it would be greatly appreciated.

To anyone who is seriously into this, I'd recommend reading Tom Clancy's "Red Storm Rising". It is a fictional account of a Soviet-Nato war across Europe that almost turns nuclear and is right down this thread's ally.

Also, most of my information I've revieced from the History Channel, Discovery Wings and various books. If you can't tell, I enjoy military history (particularly Naval history).

I have read that book it is good,sneaky stealthy russians.

The russian helicopters are far more advanced than the hinds in iraq.
The new gunship is the KA-50 , an apache killer.
They also have the mi-28 which is nice but not so new.

[edit on 25-10-2004 by devilwasp]

Originally posted by 10DeadInside10
If it were just Russia and the United States against each other one on one, with no strings attached, just all of our military might againt theirs, who would win in the end and why?

The country that is furthest away from both countries. Maybe Antartica. Or the aleins.

Out,
Russian

Hrm, you must look at the total picture for what you call war between the two states.

Nuclear- No winner/immediate stand-down of hostilities.

Air War - American (Russian decline after fall of USSR has put a slight cramp in their research abilities. However, Russian air defenses would cause grievious harm until Americans could isolate and neutralize Russian air defenses.

Ground War - I'd have to say Americans. Here's why: Russian forces lack a valid and capable C3I (Communications, Command, Control and Intelligence) to take advantage of their numbers. This is no slight against the Russians, just a fact of how their forces and strategies are aligned. When we would wargame against Soviet force structures, we'd immediately aim for all vehicles that had antennas. This caused an immediate collapse of tactical control within the battlespace.

Overall - Both sides would inflict large casualties to the other, and unfortunately, there would be spill-over to surrounding countries. The world may complain about a country such as Iraq being attacked, but it held virtually no allies. Russia has several allies as does America, it wouldn't be pretty.

may i say its good to see some reasoning going on here. normally the camp gets split and the whole thread ends up with americans claiming they'd win and russians (and US dislikers)claiming the russians would win, and no decent thinking goes on inbetween.

i think that the state of the russian economy would have a massive crippling effect on its ability to sustain a fight. allthough perhaps a war is what the country needs to break it out of its economic torpor. us would have a huge comms and intel advantage which in todays climate of informationalized warfare would give it a decided edge.

russian doggedness and mass of numbers would provide its greatest asset i feel. allthough perhaps a bigger boon is its ties with china, the largest army and airforce in the world would give US/nato some headache.

Originally posted by U.S. Patriot
1) the end to Islam's expansion, (today easily the fastest growing religion) and to Arab bloody fundamentalism. (I will go one step further and say that this will be the end of Islam).

2) Israel will become the most influential nation on earth.

Only after this will Israel be able to build the Temple and experience a spiritual awakening, a prelude to her final conversion to the Lord Jesus Christ. Or does anybody in his right mind believes that Israel will be allowed to build the Temple as things stand presently, and with the two Moslem Mosques right in the Temple Wall area? Furthermore, Israel is as worldly and apostate as she can be, with only a small percentage of Jews desperately (and blindedly) clinging to their beloved Torah. This situation will reverse itself after the supernatural victory that God will grant Israel over their enemies.

The Temple must be built, because it is fundamental to the Tribulation period. The Antichrist will use it and so, it is obvious that before it can be built there must be a shakedown of the present situation. We know that preparations are being made for the sacrifices, (the "red heifer" news). The sacred vessels and the priest's garments are being readied, as are the the priests who will perform the rites.

We must keep our eyes focused upon Israel, God's timepiece!

In my opinion that sounds like a bunch of rubbish. Help yourself to a nice warm cup of bullshhhhh...............

What you people dont see is that Russia vs. USA will always be a nuclear war. It would end the fastest and each would know they are not letting the others win. Dont tell me that Russia will fight it out when they know they dont have the stongest military. Nukes would be the Russian answer.

Out,
Russian

As in previous wars (Napoleonic, WW2) Russia can be invaded and has only been saved by the harsh winter. so all you gotta do is layer up, then attack, or napalm that'll warm it up.

Yes, Yes, Yes all great posts but you all think there would be fighting in this war. What if they just held the olympics early to see who wins. Eh???

Originally posted by 10DeadInside10
If it were just Russia and the United States against each other one on one, with no strings attached, just all of our military might againt theirs, who would win in the end and why?

Neither because they would go to the death and from what I understand they are pretty evenly matched arent they.

Russia i would think would win in an all out war, even though most people dont know it, people that have talked to Russian scientists say the Russian SDI is well just as good as the Americans.

I bet theres a hell of alot the Russians are keeping a secret....
I'm sure Russia's military technology would probably surpass the US.

Although when you think about it, if they did go to war US would win, because the US has alot of allies, who does Russia have ?

Theres no way Russia could take on all of the US and its allies.

who are russia's allies?
if they have any

Searched Google couldnt find any good info...

I think China, Poland and Syria are some of Russia's allies.

Originally posted by bodrul
who are russia's allies?
if they have any

China, North Korea, (formerly Iraq) Iraq may remain partially allied if new goverment find it beneficial, Cuba, South America, Africa partially, Pakistan and Afthganastan (alliances of convienence), Taiwan, and probably more

OK, one word you people are forgetting, or should I say abbreiviation...


M.A.D.


MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION

It's been keeping the world safe ever since the Cold War began and is the reason why you don't see Nukes flying around! If one country in the world launches a Nuclear Missile, it signifies and s***storm of Titanic Proportions! Supposing Russia and America go at it, no strings attached, full-blown war, Nuclear Weapons are the answer for both sides. America nor Russia would be willingly to risk another full-blown war, as they both realise how powerful the other is, and are already in enough battles around the world. I think both sides would turn to Nuclear Weapons at one stage or another, I pressume Russia would rush for the switch first. The reason we ain't gonna see a war between Russia and America is because it signifies total chaos across the world and leads to 1001 more problems!

It's called M.A.D....

One flick of a switch in some Nuclear Silo and the last thing everyone sees is a blinding light, followed by the pleasant feeling of smelling your own body instantly burn and vaporize...

Let's hope Russki's and Yanks never go at it, eh?

P.S. Too many of you GREATLY underestimate the Bear's capabilities (Russia). Do some research, they may be poor and democratic, but they're still a force to be reckoned with...

i ASSURE YOU THAT WE have our 5th gen Fighters built we also have our next gen tank (T-95) not the "Black Eagle" but the T-95 now about Gulf war 1 what U.S.A. fails to tell you is that the Iraq's army's T-55',T-64's,T-72's did not have ERA's, thermal vision, and DU rounds, you see 70% of the tank battles in Gulf War 1=(GF1) was done at night where Iraqi T-72's didn't have nightvision equipment and M1's had major advantages, what U.S. don't tell you is that Russian 72's had all these thigs 1.Nightvision,2. Thermal Imaging, 3.ERA's, 4. DU Rounds, which makes them just as leathal as M1's, the evedence in Iraq now in 2003-2005 is U.S.A. is now forced to reArmor thier M1's on thier sides in Iraq because the 'ol RPG-7's that the Republican Guard's are using is causing signifigant "DAMAGE" and the last 30% of the Iraq Tanks destroyed was by LGBombs dropped by F-16's/18's only aroud 25 T-72's were destroyed in DAYTIME in HEAD ON Tank vsT ANK battle BTW most 80% of Iraqi tanks destroyed we're NOT T-72's but T-55's and T-64's U.S. wants to discredit Russian TANKS by making Americans believe that " 80-95% of Iraqs tanks were T-72's so there for M1's are the best "

[edit on 11-3-2005 by SiberianTiger]