I agree, the US and Russia are not very likely to engage in direct warfare (although I dont think it impossible!). This is essentially due to the *next level* of MAD, backed with nuclear weapons, but the new front line weapon is going to be scalar technology. I do however see a new generation of "cold war brush wars" similar to VietNam, ect. N Korea is likely to be the first wave, with much of the Mid East being used as pawns.

I really dont think there is very much likelihood of any kind of extended conventional warfare between the US and Russia, especially that would lead to large scale military invasion and occupation of the others land. Granted, the Russian military is not in the best of shape, and in very poor morale, however, their history has long periods of invasion, and I believe Russian nationalism would be whipped up against us.

Although we have superiour technology, they have the advantage in manpower and terrain, and they do have sufficient technology to negate many of our advantages.

I haven't read this post so I wouldnt know if someone already brought this up for Russia WILL go to war with America.

Iraq is in debt and they owe Russia BILLIONS of dollars and how were they paying that debt? Cheap oil prices, even sometimes free.

So when USA takes full control of Iraq they're gonna be like that was Iraq, we don't owe you a debt so we're going to sell you oil at the right prices, high prices.

Illmatic67,

Russia has renouced to her debt.They'll not ask to the Irakis for their money.

As usual, only France " don't know what to do ".

renouncing...not renouncing...renouncing....not renouncing...etc... I think they need 2 or 3 decades. We have to give France some times to think about that existential question.

We never stopped fighting russia. They backed nearly every country we fought directly or indirectly by surplus sales from its(former soviet union) military.

I highly doubt we the USA will ever go toe to toe with a Rusky, unless they are mercs or handlers.

I highly doubt we the USA will ever go toe to toe with a Rusky, unless

unless ... plan "R", "R" for Robert, is engaged...

LOL!!!
Yes, Moku, and it must be done to protect our precious bodily fluids!!

Iraq is in debt and they owe Russia BILLIONS of dollars and how were they paying that debt? Cheap oil prices, even sometimes free. Posted by Illmatic67

That is correct, Iraq does owe Russia several billion, but the lions share of Iraqs debt (over $100 billion) lies with France and Germany (surprise!) who of course led the charge to prevent the war.

I understand it to be the plan for the US to alleviate this debt from the Iraqi people (on the premise that it was Saddam that ran that bill up, and since he's dead, oh well) which will leave France and Germany taking a huge financial hit.

This serves a couple of purposes. First, it is strictly punishment for opposing the US war effort (continued by the current proposal to block any and all companies associated with either country from even bidding on any form of rebuilding contract in Iraq).

Also, it is a strategic counterstrike against France and Germany for supporting Iraq in switching the oil standard currency from the dollar to the euro.

The lions share of Iraqs debt (over $100 billion) lies with France and Germany (surprise!) who of course led the charge to prevent the war. Posted by Dragonrider

Not quite correct... For one thing, your numbers are fantasy. For a second thing, almost two thirds of Iraq's total debt (365 billion) is owed to Kuwait=USA ...

Well, what a surprise. I didnt exactly expect you to believe facts.

I dont think we would go to war with russia over iraq, but maybe over syria. ANd with recent news of Iraqi leaders crossing over to Syria and us goin 2 ft , 100ft, 100yd, 1mi,20miles into syria to capture them i dont think a war with syria is too far off. And its up to Russia if they back em or not. Thats one way i could see a war breakin out. But if it did happen the only way I see it startin besides takin sides with allies is one country staging a masive and i mean massive preemptive strike on the other. Like the game red alert 2. ( i know not the greatist refernce but the best thing i could think of) AND That strike would have to be with conventional weapons cause both countries know if one nuke is fired 10 more from the opposing country will be fired and vice versa. Also i think nuke would be involved from the russian but not at the consent of the govet it would be a rouge general thinin he was doin good.
But no country would want to do a preemptive strike. America wouldnt want to do it cause of the russian terain and weather. And russia wouldnt because she know we are a sleepin giant and if we are attacked withour reason teh citizens will rise up with great vigor. But even through all of those senarios i think the biggest deterent is china. Both countries know if ieven they won china wouldnt be too far behind to pic up the pieces of both governments and then take over most of the world. China, Russia, and USA both equally hate each other. But i think the hate between Russia and china is more that USA and Russian. Because unlike us the chines military can initiate a sneak attack. There ground forces are equal if not greater than Russia. But once again what stops that fight. They know either america would side with one or the other or America will take out the winner.

If we did get into a war with russia w/o nukes. We would win the air war and even up there much more powerful ground forces with ours. The Russians have more tanks than the french have reasons to surrender

[Edited on 13-4-2003 by Quicksilver]

while we would be victorious in the air, it will not come at an easy price. out of all earthy AF's we are number one. but then again, russia is number two. it's like taking a jackie chan and bruce lee. stage hand against the master. lee would probably have one, but not without a hard fight. the ground war wouldn't be easy either. there is no real way to tell, because it'd depend on who is allied with who at the time of battle. i'm just sayin if france and russia ally, and canada and france ally, then it will be a rainy day in hell.

an airwar over russia/china will be impossible because of thousands of triumph and other sam sites
and a war on the terrain..
how much did you say it would take you to take iraq? and look how much time it really was.
and NK will just be another saigon

[Edited on 13-4-2003 by $tranger]

but is it better that i was wrong about there being mass death, than it would be for me to be wrong about it being done fast and painlessly.

i realized how many sams they have that why it is unforseable for either country to invade the other

OH yea i used to think canada was a good ally till lately. But the only reason canada would be imortant would be to stage troops in. But i guarentee the day canada said they would help russia you would have thousands of military adn americans storming the boarders and takin canada. But i sure do hope there a better friend than that

i doubt canada as a whole would act against us. i'm more worried about quebec. in febuary i was in quebec city, and there were a few signs that said no more america and weird stuff like that. quebec and canada are two different politocal aspects, but not that different.

Canada, being part of the UK Commonwealth, is one of Americas best allies, and I cannot see Canada willingly helping the Russians or any other foreign power against US interests.

As far as Quebec, the rest of Canada sort of has the attitude of "dont let the door hit you on the a$$ on the way out of the country".

Hell, they are of French decent... would you want them as part of your country???

next time there is a major war in europe, the loser keeps france!!

that was on a post about funny french jokes so props to whoever had that!

Remember when we overthrew Milosovich? When we got done and looked up there was Russian troops all ready take over, except they needed the US to stay and feed them. Clinton demanded they pull out then we discovered they didn't have enough fuel to go anywhere. Not sure how that panned out.

Originally posted by U.S. Patriot
The next event that we will probably see is the attack upon Israel by a coalition of Arab and ex-Soviet states, as written over 2500 years ago by the prophet EZEKIEL (see chapters 38, and 39), who describes this attack and identifies these nations as: Gog of the land of Magog, of Rosh, Mesheck and Tubal, (this area corresponds to parts of the ex Soviet Union) - Persia, (Iran) - Cush, (Ethiopia) - Put, (Libya) - Gomer, (parts of eastern Turkey and Ukraine) - and the house of Togarmah, (southern Turkey). (This attack will probably be a retaliation against Israel's prior nuclear attack on Syria, in which Damascus will be obliterated)

In this list we find some of Israel's most rabid enemies of our days. The ex-Soviet Moslem states have intensified contacts with fundamentalist Moslem countries like Iran, certainly one of the most fanatical enemies of Israel. We also have heard that Iran has acquired nuclear expertise and fission material from Russia and is always shopping for more. It's a well documented fact that Iran in particular, is constantly shopping for warfare technology, having no problem to pay for it through the sale of its petroleum while its population lives rather meagerly the joys of the revolution, come the news of Russia's sale of a powerful submarine to the Iranian fleet and a news report from the Iranian State Agency that Iran has just developed a missile capable of hitting Israel. Soon these nations will join together with the sole purpose of destroying Israel once and for all. But they are in for a big surprise, as is also the rest of the world.


The Bible expressly states that these nations will be defeated and destroyed, by a direct Act of God, both their armies and their home countries.

I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgement which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them.
So the house of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward.
Ezek. 39:21, 22
Though the verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 explain these events quite graphically, they will, nonetheless, leave the whole world gasping as they will unfold. Many will be the outcomes of this defeat, but we can name two main ones:

1) the end to Islam's expansion, (today easily the fastest growing religion) and to Arab bloody fundamentalism. (I will go one step further and say that this will be the end of Islam).

2) Israel will become the most influential nation on earth.

Only after this will Israel be able to build the Temple and experience a spiritual awakening, a prelude to her final conversion to the Lord Jesus Christ. Or does anybody in his right mind believes that Israel will be allowed to build the Temple as things stand presently, and with the two Moslem Mosques right in the Temple Wall area? Furthermore, Israel is as worldly and apostate as she can be, with only a small percentage of Jews desperately (and blindedly) clinging to their beloved Torah. This situation will reverse itself after the supernatural victory that God will grant Israel over their enemies.

The Temple must be built, because it is fundamental to the Tribulation period. The Antichrist will use it and so, it is obvious that before it can be built there must be a shakedown of the present situation. We know that preparations are being made for the sacrifices, (the "red heifer" news). The sacred vessels and the priest's garments are being readied, as are the the priests who will perform the rites.

We must keep our eyes focused upon Israel, God's timepiece!

buddy, for lack of a better word...that was said perfectly. Thank you!!!!