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The Day of the Lord is Already Here. 2 Thessalonians 2:2

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posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 03:08 PM
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Now regarding the arrival of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to be with him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to be easily shaken from your composure or disturbed by any kind of spirit or message or letter allegedly from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord is already here. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not arrive until. . .

Those who follow biblical scholarship in the field of texual criticism know how 2 Thessalonians is regarded, as a forgery. The reason generally given for the reason such a forgery was made is found in the verse I quoted. It was written to counter what Paul had previously written concerning the coming of Christ, and to make it into something completely different than what he taught in his lifetime.
Let's look at some of what Paul did write about the subject an see what we can make of it.

1 Corinthians 7:29b
The time is short.

31b
For the present shape of this world is passing away.

Romans 13:11
And do this because we know the time, that it is already the hour for us to awake from sleep, for our salvation is now nearer than when we became believers.

Romans 13:12
The night has advanced toward dawn; the day is near. So then we must lay aside the works of darkness, and put on the weapons of light.
edit on 30-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 03:59 PM
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In Wikipedia, there is a main article titled:
Jesus and Messianic prophecy
There is a heading under that article titled:
Scriptural Requirements Concerning the Messiah
There it has a list of these various "requirements" with two columns on the right side, under, the sub-titles, Judaism, and Christianity.
It looks to have been written by Jews, or Jew sympathizers, using Hebrew sounding words like, Mashiach, instead of the New Testament word, Christ.
I can give a summary of which ones are accepted by both Jews and Christians according to this list, which is most of the items on the list:

King who other nations will look to.
Everyone will worship the "god of Israel".
Descendant of David and Solomon.
A person recognizable as a man who lives here, and also an observant Jew.
Evil will be on the wane.
Increased knowledge of "god".
Be attractive to all sorts of people.
Israel in "homeland".
No death.
Everyone in perfect health.
The resurrection will take place forty years after the arrival of "Moshiach".
"The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness."
"Messenger of peace."
No more tools of war.
Temple along with temple services.


And the rest is all redundant.
What should be starkly clear to even the casual reader, is that this article was written by Jews in the name of Christians, as if they agree to all of this.
The second thing that should be clearly evidenced is why we have this forgery in the NT canon. The same way that Zionist Jews have completely overrun Wikipedia with their propaganda, they were hard at work during the lifetimes of the Apostles to overthrow the Gospel, and once they were gone, were able to exert their influence over the theology of Christianity to counteract the Messiahship of Jesus.
edit on 30-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


The day of the Lord is still nearer than when those words were said. A day is 1000 and a week is 7000. A jubilee year happens each 7 years when the captives are let free and debts are forgiven. Christ returns on the day of the Lord to set us free form our bondage here to sin and death. We still have that day to go. Jesus said that if they destroy this temple (his body), He would raise it again in three days. That was two thousand years ago. He will rise on the third day. This is the day of the Lord. Faith becomes fact.

This is my perspective.

Isaiah 13:6
Wail, for the day of the LORD is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty.

....We can feel it approaching. Matthew 24 gives the signs.

Isaiah 13:9
See, the day of the LORD is coming —a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger— to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it.

Ezekiel 13:5
You have not gone up to the breaches in the wall to repair it for the people of Israel so that it will stand firm in the battle on the day of the LORD.

Ezekiel 30:3
For the day is near, the day of the LORD is near— a day of clouds, a time of doom for the nations.

Joel 2:11
The LORD thunders at the head of his army; his forces are beyond number, and mighty is the army that obeys his command. The day of the LORD is great; it is dreadful. Who can endure it?

Joel 2:28
[ The Day of the LORD ] “And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.

Joel 2:31
The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

Joel 3:14
Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

Amos 5:18
[ The Day of the LORD ] Woe to you who long for the day of the LORD! Why do you long for the day of the LORD? That day will be darkness, not light.

Obadiah 1:15
“The day of the LORD is near for all nations. As you have done, it will be done to you; your deeds will return upon your own head.

Zephaniah 1:2
[ Judgment on the Whole Earth in the Day of the LORD ] “I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth,” declares the LORD.

Zephaniah 1:7
Be silent before the Sovereign LORD, for the day of the LORD is near. The LORD has prepared a sacrifice; he has consecrated those he has invited.

Zephaniah 1:14
The great day of the LORD is near— near and coming quickly. The cry on the day of the LORD is bitter; the Mighty Warrior shouts his battle cry.

Zechariah 14:1
[ The LORD Comes and Reigns ] A day of the LORD is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

Malachi 4:5
“See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.

The NT merely rehashes these laments.



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


And if he does come back he is sure going to be angry with Religions which carry his name.



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


And if he does come back he is sure going to be angry with Religions which carry his name.
Which is the question I want to get into with this thread.
Is Jesus coming back?
If so, then how, when, and why?
The big question to me is, 'Why does the Messiah have to come more than once?'
I think what has happened is that the Christ came, and the Jews are unhappy that it was not the Messiah they wanted, killed the Christ, and now are busy stamping out the very memory of Christ, while promoting their own view of the future Messiah of their own making.
So all those Christians who say things like "I will never renounce Jesus" already are, first by rejecting the very name of Jesus, and replacing it with a false Jewish invented name, then substituting the very definition of Christ, with one of their own (the Zionist Jew's) invention.
So, without even hardly noticing, the Christians in name only, will find themselves without even that, having substituted all the terminology associated with their former religion, with Zionist Jew terminology, of course leading everyone involved, straight into Hell.
edit on 30-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Thank you for that, I have long since said what you have written there. Finding truth in the bible,that hasn't been manipulated for purposes of control and deceit, is like trying to find a needle in a haystack, and then trying to put a camel through it's eye!

The day of the lord is today! DUH! Now is all you have, the past is gone and the future is always in front of you, and just out of reach.

Pauls writings are tricky slippery slopes of antidotes and twists and turns that make logic out to be sinnful and sin and oppression to be holy. Questioning and using your god given voice are deem demonic. The writings of Paul are so convoluted it seems as it was written to include pagan gods, then those god's names are swapped our by "our lord and savior" and such, at a later date, when they finally settled on the right name. Jesus Christ



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by windword
 

The day of the lord is today! DUH! Now is all you have, the past is gone and the future is always in front of you, and just out of reach.
Today is what we have.
Like a thief in the night, that is you going out the door and not knowing if you will ever come back home, having been in a car crash, or maybe one day not feeling good, then going to the doctor to be diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and dying five days later.



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Is Jesus coming back? This is the question. I am not a christian, but I do believe that I understand the symbolism of the sacrifice that was made, and the sybolism of the crucifiction, and it is timeless.

This is the way I see it.

Life is a sacrifice of pure spirit. Pure spirit is a sacrifice of the creation of the physical. "Christ Consciouness" is a balance inbetween. A marriage of the spitual and the physical. Thus, the church, the physical body, is the bride of Christ.

Physical life is derived from death. We kill to survive. And, to all you PETA people, animals kill to live. It is a convenant of Gaia. To live, one must kill and be killed, the agreement consumated at birth.

If the original sacrifice is timeless, the Alpha and Omega, and the beginning and the end are continuous, then the birth, the resurrection and the return are timeless, and at hand at any moment in eternity. The word was there before it was spoken, language is secondary to reality.

So, I would ask, "Did Jesus ever leave?" If time is irrevelant to God, and the promise has been made, why couldn't we suppose that the deed is done, and done outside the realm of our pure time, like a time traveler returning to the exact time he left, convincing no one that he was gone?

Am I making sense?


edit on 30-10-2011 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by windword
 

Am I making sense?
I think so but not sure if it applies, exactly.
Jesus sacrificed himself, meaning whatever he was before, no longer exists. What does exist which is Christ, is a spirit which interacts with the physical, such as who we are, in this physical existence. So the "coming" of Christ is right now, that Spirit which is what remains after the sacrifice of Jesus, is available to enter into us as a new breath of life. This is the new life, and replaces that old life that was in bondage to the life and death cycle.



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 
Thanks for whatever that was.
Jesus is Christ.
That is what the New Testament is about.
Whatever that expected thing that was supposed to come,
was fulfilled in his coming, as in his birth, his baptism, his life
and ministry including his teachings and miracles.
Jesus sacrificed himself to leave his legacy which is his
inheritance to us. That was his Testament.
Jesus went to heaven where his rightful place to rule the
world is at. Jesus rules as the Christ now.



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by windword
 

Am I making sense?


I think so but not sure if it applies, exactly.
Jesus sacrificed himself, meaning whatever he was before, no longer exists. What does exist which is Christ, is a spirit which interacts with the physical, such as who we are, in this physical existence. So the "coming" of Christ is right now, that Spirit which is what remains after the sacrifice of Jesus, is available to enter into us as a new breath of life. This is the new life, and replaces that old life that was in bondage to the life and death cycle.


I think we need to ask, "Who was Jesus?" Was he that guy? Is he the inspiration for our spiritual existance? (The Swiffer Cleaner Upper to our dust?)

Was Jesus, Krishna? Buddha? Kronos, Zeus, Osirus, Ra, Quetzalcoatl?

Isn't the covenant for all of mankind? Who is Jesus, all of us, or one of us? Haven't we all left heaven to sacrificed ourselves for the experience of life?



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 
Thanks for whatever that was.
Jesus is Christ.
That is what the New Testament is about.
Whatever that expected thing that was supposed to come,
was fulfilled in his coming, as in his birth, his baptism, his life
and ministry including his teachings and miracles.
Jesus sacrificed himself to leave his legacy which is his
inheritance to us. That was his Testament.
Jesus went to heaven where his rightful place to rule the
world is at. Jesus rules as the Christ now.



Yes. But, we are still here in bondage. We await his return as indicated in Hebrews 9:28. We have all been waiting for our salvation to appear as Christ appears a second time. There are other references to this same event throughout the Bible.

23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 

Yes. But, we are still here in bondage.
Here are some results from a word search for "bondage":

John 8:33
They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?"

Romans 6:6
For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin--

Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."

Romans 8:21
that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

2 Corinthians 11:20
In fact, you even put up with anyone who enslaves you or exploits you or takes advantage of you or pushes himself forward or slaps you in the face.

Galatians 2:4
[This matter arose] because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves.

Galatians 4:3
So also, when we were children, we were in slavery under the basic principles of the world

Galatians 4:8
Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods.

Galatians 5:1
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery

Hebrews 2:15
and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


A few things are at work here with the verses you quoted. We are currently in bondage until Christ comes. Second, we have freedom now form the bondage of the law but not sin and death physically. Love is the only law necessary to fulfill the law. If we receive the Holy Spirit and love God and others, we fulfill the law. Can we fully remove our sin? Not at all. Christ is crucified once for our sins. Salvation also comes once when Christ appears. It is yet to be.

Romans 8:21
that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

Creation 'will' be liberated, not is liberated. If I read you correctly, you are implying that The Day of the Lord is here now. Apart from some context from your thread, I cannot know. Let me know where you are headed. If I am incorrect in what you imply, simply fill me in.


edit on 30-10-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 

A few things are at work here with the verses you quoted.
OK, you quoted one verse that I posted that came up in my word search. Is that the only one that creates this thought in your mind about "things at work"?
You seem to have quite a bit to say about these "few things". Do you have any verses to go along with that commentary?
I'm doing a study. That's how I do my threads. I have a question and I want to see if there is some sort of resolution to it and want to examine the evidence, so if you know of any, then feel free to submit it.



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 11:03 PM
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If the day of the Lord is already here then satan's chain is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long.



posted on Oct, 31 2011 @ 03:53 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 

We await his return as indicated in Hebrews 9:28. We have all been waiting for our salvation to appear as Christ appears a second time. There are other references to this same event throughout the Bible.

23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Please do give those references!
The verb translated, Appear, in verse 28 is not describing something the person, Jesus, does, such as spring out from behind a curtain, but describes something being done by those waiting. Jesus could just as well be completely stationery, and the seekers of observation, come to him.
A few verses after Hebrews 9:28, it says,

12But He Himself, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, “sat down at [the] right hand of God,” 13waiting from that time onward “until His enemies are put [as] a footstool for His feet.”

Then, in Revelation you find this scene portrayed,

9After these [things] I saw, and look!, a large crowd, which no one was being able to number, out of every nation and from tribes and people and tongues, having stood before the throne and before the Lamb having been clothed in long, white robes and palm branches in their hands. 10And they cry out with a loud voice, saying, “The salvation [belongs] to our God, the One sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

This echos exactly what was said in Hebrews. So, it is the saints, out of the tribulation who find themselves at the throne, and they see Jesus and cry out, "Here is Salvation!"
Millions of people have believed in Jesus and have died without seeing Jesus, that is a fact. This may be the fact, forever, or until there are no people even left on earth to die, I'm not sure, but it seems customary for people to die before meeting Jesus.

edit on 31-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2011 @ 04:22 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 

The day of the Lord is still nearer than when those words were said.
You mean the thread title? That was Second Thessalonians, and what I was saying was that if that letter was fake, and was lying, then the lie was about the day of the Lord having come. If the lie is that that day did not come, then I might suspect that the opposite might be true.
Jesus said that these things he said would be fulfilled in the lifetimes of some who heard him say them. So, I would say to you, Superior Ed, that we are getting further away from when those things were fulfilled. It very well may be that early on in his ministry, Jesus thought he may have more time than he had, before leaving this world, so was a little imprecise about the timing.

A day is 1000 and a week is 7000. A jubilee year happens each 7 years when the captives are let free and debts are forgiven. Christ returns on the day of the Lord to set us free form our bondage here to sin and death. We still have that day to go. Jesus said that if they destroy this temple (his body), He would raise it again in three days. That was two thousand years ago. He will rise on the third day. This is the day of the Lord. Faith becomes fact.
There are biblical specialist who concentrate on the Jubilee laws. You should think about reading some of their work, and you may know not to make such blithe statements such as this you posted.
We are set free, now, meaning we are not captives by fear of death, to Satan.
People die, and they go to heaven and God provides for them an incorruptible body. So how is it that you are claiming that is not taking place? Or you just want it right now? Do you think you are more deserving of that than every other saint who ever lived?
edit on 31-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2011 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 

A few things are at work here with the verses you quoted.
OK, you quoted one verse that I posted that came up in my word search. Is that the only one that creates this thought in your mind about "things at work"?
You seem to have quite a bit to say about these "few things". Do you have any verses to go along with that commentary?
I'm doing a study. That's how I do my threads. I have a question and I want to see if there is some sort of resolution to it and want to examine the evidence, so if you know of any, then feel free to submit it.


Here is the same post with verses to back what is said.

A few things are at work here with the verses you quoted.

1) We are currently in bondage until Christ comes.

a. We are waiting. Hebrews 9:28 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

b. We are waiting for our salvation from the bondage of decay and sin. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

c. Romans 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

d. 1 Corinthians 15:54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”


Second, we have freedom now form the bondage of the law but not sin and death physically.

a. Acts 13:39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.

b. Romans 8:2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

c. 1 Corinthians 9:21
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.

d. Galatians 3:23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Love is the only law necessary to fulfill the law.

James 1:25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.

Romans 8:2
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

If we receive the Holy Spirit and love God and others, we fulfill the law.

Luke 10

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[c]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

Can we fully remove our sin? Not at all. Christ is crucified once for our sins. Salvation also comes once when Christ appears. It is yet to be.

Romans 8:21
that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

Creation 'will' be liberated, not is liberated.

We are waiting. Hebrews 9:28 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

The last day is approaching. The second death will (future) have no power. Those who are already dead in Christ will rise to new life first when He comes.

Ephesians 5:14
This is why it is said: “Wake up, sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.”

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.


edit on 31-10-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2011 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I see what you are saying. There are many views but only one reality that will transpire. Either way, we put our faith in God and we will be saved by the work of Christ on the corss.




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