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TA-ATTACKS: Armed Men Storm Russian School; Children Hostage

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posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by crossfire
Muslims are truly vile, awful, barbarians - the world over.


How can ya just group a whole people like that? There are so many people that hate Americans, but we have NO control over what our government does...look at the gang wars in America......what if people grouped ALL americans as gang members....becasue of a few? That's a very closed minded outlook don't ya think!?




posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 05:26 PM
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Well I pray for the Russian people and the saftey of all the inocents in the school. Also good luck to Spetsnaz.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 07:28 PM
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The Chechen terrorists have to be dipped in pig blood and then shot!

And for you people that talk about 2001 Theater...

You cant do any better yourself. The building was rigged with bombs and the only choice was to save as much as possible. Its the same thing as saying that 9/11 was your fault. No other country could have dont better in the Theater attack.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 07:37 PM
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I agree with Russian on this. Spetsnaz (if thats who was involved) did the an excellent job at the theater. I consider that a sucess. I have full confidence in Spetsnaz to handle this. But I've heard some special forces including British Royal Marines are trained to coordinate sniper fire so that several snipers can fire there shots with in about a second of each other. This tactic may be a good idea. Good luck to Spetsnaz and God bless Russia.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 07:38 PM
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I agree Russian, it's not like these mindless barbarians have any desire to truly negotiate, they make unattainable demands just so they can "justify" their suicide attack in the eyes of other muslims and become martyrs. If these bastards hurt these children, Russia should clean house in Chechnya and the world should say nothing about it, just like we went into Afghanistan after 9/11. Maybe this will be the moment the world unites against extreme Islam, if good muslims won't FULLY cooperate in pointing these extremists out, then they are as guilty, if WWIII breaks out and is a war of cultures so be it, they have crossed the line harming children!



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 07:46 PM
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Well I don't know about total war on Islam but Russia should go and clean up Checnya. If anything I think the US should offer to help Russia.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 07:48 PM
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US doesnt need to help Russia. US has to now take care of the assholes in Iraq. Trust me that will take you people about 15-20 years to do.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 08:09 PM
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Re the 'Theatre'attack. What should have happened was to just wait it out. O.K they had explosives strapped to them, the theatre was rigged with bombs - but the scene was set, the deed was done and by not playing a waiting game the blame was shifted to the Government. Those people were doomed the minute they bought a ticket.

Now Putin's present dilemma. The child is revered in Russia - the rebels KNOW that they can bring Russia to a crisis by their actions so I believe that Putin appealing to the United Nations for help will in some ways cushion the effects of what ever the outcome of the hostage situation turns out to be. the Government must wait and let it be seen it is the actions of the rebels that cause the events to unfold - either to let the children go ( and hopefully blow themselves up) - or they commit the gravest of sins in the eyes of all Russia. If it were my child in there I wouldn't want some gut reaction - I would want to wait it out and International help sought - special forces from Britain would be my thoughts.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 08:10 PM
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America cannot fight a war against these terrorists alone. The majority of Americans believe we can extinguish the menace of global terrorism alone. My point is: Dear Mr. President, seize this opportunity to connect with Russia in effort to eliminate our common threat.

We have been working together on many other projects. Why not shake hands on the most important one of all?



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 08:18 PM
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People, thanks for being supportive, but there is nothing the US can do to help, really. It's all in the hands of Spetsnaz now, and in the hands of the Army after that, -- they'll have to clean up Chechnya.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by Russian
And for you people that talk about 2001 Theater...

You cant do any better yourself. The building was rigged with bombs and the only choice was to save as much as possible. Its the same thing as saying that 9/11 was your fault. No other country could have dont better in the Theater attack.


I have no doubt that the use of the anesthesia was the best route. It was obvious the terrorists would have detonated their bombs if an offensive had been launched.

But I am curious as to whether the emergency responders should have been told more. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't most of the patrons die as a result of losing their airway? I seem to recall a Russian documentary stating that if these people had been simply rolled over instead of being laid on their backs - the death rate would have been much lower.

Can you provide more insight on this?



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by Jack Martin
America cannot fight a war against these terrorists alone. The majority of Americans believe we can extinguish the menace of global terrorism alone. My point is: Dear Mr. President, seize this opportunity to connect with Russia in effort to eliminate our common threat.

We have been working together on many other projects. Why not shake hands on the most important one of all?


Bush has already talked to Putin and afford him any help he needed

I would love to see this. If there ever was a power that could wipe out all the terrorist in the world in would be the combined forces of the US and Russia. I think any group that would think they can make a enemy of both the US and Russia is asking for their own destruction and terrorist seem to be picking just this fight.

Could you imagine if any country declared war on both Russia and the US during the cold war. Granted this is a new type of war for both Russia and America to fight but we are getting better all the time at doing it and its only a matter of time before these terrorist wished they were never born.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 08:24 PM
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Instinct dictates to me...there will be many dead children...in this...matter.

Hell, the children of that beleaguered country have already endured the plague of war, war and its waste, its ruin. We nudge the curtain aside when we hear an odd sound, have our fingers on speed dial when someone of color appears in our cozy neighborhood, while Russian children are sold in to slavery, prostitution, a criminal demise.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by Bleys

Originally posted by Russian
And for you people that talk about 2001 Theater...

You cant do any better yourself. The building was rigged with bombs and the only choice was to save as much as possible. Its the same thing as saying that 9/11 was your fault. No other country could have dont better in the Theater attack.


I have no doubt that the use of the anesthesia was the best route. It was obvious the terrorists would have detonated their bombs if an offensive had been launched.

But I am curious as to whether the emergency responders should have been told more. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't most of the patrons die as a result of losing their airway? I seem to recall a Russian documentary stating that if these people had been simply rolled over instead of being laid on their backs - the death rate would have been much lower.

Can you provide more insight on this?


Soory I dont know much about the gasess and stuff like that.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 08:30 PM
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Also I want to say that the most experianced people in terrorists war is Russia and then Israel. USA has not experiance they have only tech ob their side and that is not enough. But dont worry USA will gain experiance in Iraq.

Israel is not as experianced as Russia cause they fight bombing but almost no hostages. Almost all Israel is doing in check points and poilice on every square foot of the Israel land.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 08:30 PM
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I agree that the absolute horror if this situation is the ruthless use of children by these undoubably muderous brutal people. But Im interested in how little people seem to view the bombing of women and children from the air, both in Chechnya and other non Russian conflicts in little relation to this. Isnt it terrible that children are senselessly killed by 'big', 'civilised' nations. I definately dont agree with the Chechen insurgency, the rebels are largely reduced to gangsters and aspiring warlords. But the war orchastrated under Yeltsin (for anyone who remembers) was a bloody debacle (and a rather murderous and indiscriminate) which shows the US efforts in Iraq to be considerate and generally most sterling in comparison.
The Putin War, while miliatrly more effective, was 'by the book' Stalingrad style. Im sure there are lots of missile proof schools in Grozny... isnt there?
These Chechen rebels are heinous criminals, but me musnt forget all our pre 9/11 criticsm, and start applauding state brutality. I applaud some above mentioned pragmatism... and maybe even the point about UK specforces (they are some of the best/experienced in the world). Perhaps negotiation will work.. it eventually did in the hospital siege. But maybe everyone will die. Either way it is systemic of the WHOLE situation being far more serious and deeply ingrained then anyone seems to want to realise...

Q



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 08:32 PM
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The negligence in the Theather Siege was close to crimial and yet... There is an explanation. There had been other leaks to terrorists, via cell phones, about the various manuevers of the Spetsnaz. If there was a massive congregation of ambulances or the medics had been tipped off, I have no doubt at all that the fifth column would've tipped the terrorists, thus eliminating the element of surprise.

Does it make sense?



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by Aelita
The negligence in the Theather Siege was close to crimial and yet... There is an explanation. There had been other leaks to terrorists, via cell phones, about the various manuevers of the Spetsnaz. If there was a massive congregation of ambulances or the medics had been tipped off, I have no doubt at all that the fifth column would've tipped the terrorists, thus eliminating the element of surprise.

Does it make sense?


When the siege finished in Moscow, there was much speculation about who was paid off in the militsya, just because of the terrorists managing to pass checkpoints up to and in the outskirts of Moscow with all their equipment. Perhaps it goes deeper still, with the hospitals at least... the logistics of the medicare was an essential faliure of the seige breaking



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by Bleys

Originally posted by Russian
And for you people that talk about 2001 Theater...

You cant do any better yourself. The building was rigged with bombs and the only choice was to save as much as possible. Its the same thing as saying that 9/11 was your fault. No other country could have dont better in the Theater attack.


I have no doubt that the use of the anesthesia was the best route. It was obvious the terrorists would have detonated their bombs if an offensive had been launched.

But I am curious as to whether the emergency responders should have been told more. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't most of the patrons die as a result of losing their airway? I seem to recall a Russian documentary stating that if these people had been simply rolled over instead of being laid on their backs - the death rate would have been much lower.

Can you provide more insight on this?


The Russian Goverment has never stated exactly what gas the used. Russian officials have cited security reasons for refusing to reveal the kind of gas used.

People in the West have some thoughts on what the gas was but you cant really be sure. A Fentanyl derivative is a likely suspect.'' A German toxicology professor who examined several German hostages said that their blood and urine contained halothane, a surgical anesthetic not commonly used in the west, and that it was likely the gas had additional components.''



There were many problems with using this gas first off people in the theater were all different sizes what it took to knock out a 200lb man might kill a 100lb women. Also the gas was injected in the theater through the ventaltion ducks which were all located in the back of the theater so people seated in the back would have got more of a dose then those in the front. Another factor was that Im sure they have never used this new gas on this scale in this way before. Problems getting people to hospitals was another factor.

All in all given the situation I think they made the right choice if they didnt use that gas that building would have been leveled and all the hostages would have been dead.


www.campusprogram.com... w_theatre_siege.html

[edit on 1-9-2004 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 08:46 PM
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Very well said!

Now I want you people think that Russia #ed up in the 2001 Theater Siege to shut up cause you just dont know # about how this stuff works! Learn then talk!



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