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TA-ATTACKS: Armed Men Storm Russian School; Children Hostage

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posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 12:00 PM
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They are not terrorists because they are muslims! They are at war with the RUSSIAN FEDERATION. Okay, guerrila tactics can be awful and inhuman, but in the larger scale of it, taking a school with a Kalashnikov, and nuking 100 schools (which has been a suggestion on this thread so far- nuking Chechnya) is just the same evil with two different price plans.

Chechens are fighting this nasty war because they couldnt not win conventionally against the Russian army in the long run. Im sure that should war break out between Russia and another Caucasian state, the resulting Russian occupation would bring simialr atrocities on both sides that have been seen in Chechnya (irrespective of religion). Hopefully this probably wont happen (despite the escalation between Georgia and Russia over South Ossetia), but the point stands.
The brutal tactics of Chechen fighters can also be attributed to the fact that many of the fighters are hardened criminals (not religious zealots)with long experience of kidnapping and murder. Plus, after years of Russian brutality (usually frustratioin after the bugled operations under Yeltsin), are you surprised that all the young Chechen men and women have been radicalised????

There are some good papers on the Caucasian poitial dynamics and political/military problems/issues at the Conflict Studies Research Centre

csrc.ac.uk

also some of the archived articles on cdi.org on the Russia Weekly and Johnsons Russia List.

Q




posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 12:02 PM
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How much do I have to know before I wake up?

Nov. 4, 1979
Islamic students storm the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, Iran, holding 52 Americans hostage for 444 days. All hostages are released unharmed hours after Ronald Reagan is inaugurated the 40th U.S. president.

April 18, 1983
A suicide car-bomber blows up the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, killing 63 people, including 17 Americans.

Oct. 23, 1983
A Shiite suicide bomber blows up the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut, Lebanon, killing 241 Marines and 58 French paratroopers - all members of a U.N. peacekeeping force.

Dec. 12, 1983
Shiite extremists set off car bombs in front of the U.S. and French embassies in Kuwait City, killing five people and wounding 86.

Sept. 20, 1984
A car bomb at the U.S. Embassy annex in east Beirut, Lebanon kills 16 and injures the ambassador.

April 12, 1985
Near a U.S. air base in Madrid, a bomb explodes in a restaurant popular with Americans, killing 18, all Spaniards, and injuring 82 - among them 15 Americans.

June 14, 1985
Shiite gunmen seize a TWA airliner and force it to Beirut, Lebanon. U.S. Navy diver Robert Stethem is killed at the start of the ordeal and 39 Americans are held hostage for 17 days.

Aug. 8, 1985
A large car bomb kills two and injures 20 at a U.S. base in Frankfurt. A U.S. soldier murdered for his identity papers is found the day after the blast.

Oct. 7, 1985
Palestinian terrorists hijack Italian cruise liner Achille Lauro, which is sailing in the Mediterranean Sea. They shoot Leon Klinghoffer, an elderly wheelchair-bound New Yorker, and throw him overboard. The hijackers surrender to Egyptian authorities two days later.

Dec. 18, 1985
An Arab suicide squad simultaneously attacks U.S. and Israeli check-in desks at the international airports of Rome and Vienna. The attacks claim a total of 20 lives, including four guerrillas.

April 2, 1986
Four Americans are killed when a bomb under a seat explodes on a TWA airliner en route from Rome to Athens.

April 5, 1986
A West Berlin disco frequented by Americans is bombed. The blast kills two U.S. soldiers and a German woman, and injures 150 people, many of them off-duty military personnel.

Sept. 5, 1986
Hijackers seize a Pan Am 747 carrying 358 people at Karachi Airport. Twenty people are killed when security forces storm the plane.

Dec. 21, 1988
On its way from London to New York, a Pan Am Boeing 747 explodes over Lockerbie, Scotland, killing all 259 people on the plane and 11 on the ground.

Feb. 26, 1993
A bomb explodes in a parking garage below the World Trade Center in New York, killing six people and wounding more than 1,000. Six Islamic militants were convicted in the bombing and sentenced to life in prison.

Sept. 13, 1995
A rocket-propelled grenade pierces the wall of the U.S. Embassy in Moscow, but causes no injuries.

Nov. 13, 1995
A car bomb detonates at the U.S. military head-quarters in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, killing seven people, five of them Americans.

June 25, 1996
A fuel truck bomb explodes outside the Khobar Towers housing complex near Dharan, Saudi Arabia, killing 19 U.S. Air Force personnel and injuring more than 500 Americans and Saudis.

Aug. 7, 1998
Twin bomb blasts rock the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. The blasts kill at least 247 people in Nairobi and 10 in Dar es Salaam, with more than 5,000 injured. Twelve Americans die in the Nairobi blast.

Oct. 12, 2000
A bomb triggered by suicide bombers aboard a small boat tears a 40-by-40-foot hole into the side the U.S. destroyer USS Cole in the Yemeni port of Aden, killing 17 sailors and injuring more than 30.

Sept. 11, 2001
Hijacked planes crash into the World Trade Center towers in New York - destroying both - and the Pentagon in Washington, D.C. Approximately 3,000 people are killed in the simultaneous attacks.

January 2002
Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl is kidnapped in Karachi and killed by Islamic militants protesting the detention of Taliban and al-Qaida fighters at the U.S. Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

May 8, 2002
A suicide car bombing in Karachi kills 11 French engineers.

June 14, 2002
A car bombing at the U.S. Consulate in Karachi kills at least 12 people and injures 50 more. Pakistani police, working with FBI agents, have said the attack was carried out with a 222-pound car bomb. They are not sure whether the device was detonated by remote control or the work of a suicide bomber.

May 12, 2003
In one of the deadliest terror attacks on Americans since Sept. 11, attackers shoot their way into three gated compounds housing Westerners in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, and set off car bombs. At least 10 Americans are killed and an estimated 50 people are injured, including at least 30 Americans. Secretary of State Colin Powell says the bombings have "the earmarks of al Qaeda."

Aug. 5, 2003
A car bomb explodes outside the Marriott hotel in downtown Jakarta, Indonesia, killing 10 people and wounding nearly 150 - including two Americans. The hotel was the site of many U.S. diplomatic receptions and was also used by U.S. officials for 4th of July celebrations. The militant group Jemaah Islamiyah allegedly claims responsibility for the bombing in remarks published by Singapore's Straits Times newspaper.

Wake me when this becomes a real Issue!



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 12:10 PM
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RECENT CHECHEN HISTORY

SOURCE = www.infoplease.com/spot/chechnyatime1.html - 30k

CAPS USED FOR MY THOUGHTS,
1991
Soviet Union collapses, 14 regions become independent nations. Dzhokhar Dudayev elected president of Chechnya. Dudayev declares Chechnya independent. Russian President Boris Yeltsin refuses to recognize Chechen independence, sends troops. Confronted by armed Chechens, troops withdraw.
THIS SHOWS THAT CHECHNYA WAS A PART OF RUSSIA (SINCE ITS ASSIMILATION IN 1923)

1994
Chechnya continues to assert its independence. Paramilitary bands accused of widespread kidnapping for ransom. Russia invades Chechnya; bloody war ensues.
(RUSSIANS RE-ASSERT CONTROL OVER BREAKAWAY PROVINCE)

1995
10,000 Russian troops occupy Grozny. Dudayev killed by Russian rocket. Total Russian force numbers 45,000. Chechens takes hostages
(HOSTAGE TAKING, BEGINS TERROR CAMPAIGN)

1996
Chechens launch major counteroffensive, 5,000 troops invade Grozny. Unwilling to use maximum force and destroy Grozny to defeat rebels, Russians agree to ceasefire. Yeltsin orders troops withdrawn from Chechnya. Russian military humiliated. 70,000 casualties on all sides
(UNWILLING POLITICALLY TO DO WHAT NEEDED TO BE DONE, PERCIEVED AS A VICTORY FOR THE REBELS....LESSON TO LEARN HERE... ON HOW NOT TO LOSE BECAUSE YOU GIVE UP WILL TO FIGHT!!)

1997
Chechnya won't accept Moscow's authority. Aslan Maskhadov elected Chechen president. Name of capital changed from the Russian Grozny, to the Chechen Djohar. Lawlessness in Chechnya continues.

1999
Terrorist bombs explode in Moscow and other Russian cities. Russian authorities blame Chechen paramilitary commanders. Chechen insurgents enter neighboring Russian territory of Dagestan to help Islamic fundamentalists seeking to create separate nation.
(ISLAMIC TERROR TRYING TO GAIN A NATION!!! WAKE UP DOVES!!!)
Russian troops recapture breakaway areas of Dagestan. Yeltsin sends nearly 100,000 Russian troops into Chechnya. Russians occupy much of Chechnya, pulverize Grozny, driving rebels into hills. 250,000 refugees.

2000
War continues. Russians are unable to defeat rebels in mountainous areas. United Nations officials call for investigations of alleged human rights abuses by Russian troops and by Chechen rebels. New Russian President Vladimir Putin agrees to human rights investigation, continues war.
(BOTH SIDES GET COUGHT FIGHTING "DIRTY" BUT ONE OF THEM (russia) STEPS UP AND ADMITS THINGS SHOULD BE DONE BETTER AND WORKS TWORDS THIS...SOUND FAMILIAR?)

2002
On Oct. 23, Chechen rebels seized a crowded Moscow theater and detained 763 people, including 3 Americans. Armed and wired with explosives, the rebels demanded that Russian government end the war in Chechnya. Government forces stormed the theater the next day, after releasing a gas into the theater, which killed not only all the rebels but more than 100 hostages.
(TERROR AGAINST RUSSIAN HOMELAND)

2003
In March Chechens voted in a referendum that approved a new regional constitution making Chechnya a separatist republic within Russia. Agreeing to the constitution meant abandoning claims for complete independence. While Moscow has presented the referendum as a way of bringing peace to the war-ravaged region, it is unclear how much power Russia would actually grant the separatist republic. A spate of Chechen suicide bombings followed throughout the year...During 2003, there were 11 bomb attacks against Russia believed to have been orchestrated by Chechen rebels.
(TERROR ESCALATES)

2004
On May 9, Chechnya's Moscow-backed leader, Akhmad Kadyrov, is killed in a bombing. Six others are killed and another 60 wounded.....A warlord, Shamil Basayev, claimed responsibility for the bombing.

MAY 10 2004
Vladimir Putin yesterday moved to fill the power vacuum left by Akhmad Kadyrov's death in Chechnya and vowed that "retribution" would be "unavoidable".
"There can be no doubt that retribution is unavoidable for those whom we are fighting today," he said.

SOUNDS LIKE ISLAMIC TERRORISTS HAVE HAD PLANS HERE FOR A WHILE, AND ARE TRYING TO MAKE GAINS WHILE THINGS SEEM CHAOTIC ENOUGH...TRYNG TO SPREAD THIS CONFLICT, AND RADICAL ISLAM.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by Qoelet
There are some good papers on the Caucasian poitial dynamics and political/military problems/issues at the Conflict Studies Research Centre

csrc.ac.uk

also some of the archived articles on cdi.org on the Russia Weekly and Johnsons Russia List.

Q

Thanks for the background and links. Maybe we can all get a better understand of the region.
Of course I don't think any of this justifies using children as political pawns in a violent situation, but it's nice to get an understanding of what radicalizes some people.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 12:12 PM
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They should storm in blowing everyone to HELL ... That way at least you know they are dead and can never do this again. Besides they planned this waiting period they are waiting on something I hope that something isn't something big ....



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 12:14 PM
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Those damn Chechens!! If the oligarchs in Russia were'nt greedy bastards themselves the war would have stopped a long time ago



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by phreak_of_nature
Maybe we can all get a better understand of the region.
Of course I don't think any of this justifies using children as political pawns in a violent situation, but it's nice to get an understanding of what radicalizes some people.


no worries... I dont think anything justifies this horror, but an uninformed view of the situation cannot make things any better?!?! mmm



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 12:23 PM
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I hope those kids make it out OK. This is a job for Spetnaz, anyone that would use little kids to help get their goals because they are too weak to do it any other way should be wiped out and not reasoned with.


In Putin's own words. ''Russia does not negotiate with terrorists it destroys them''. Terrorist is a cancer on this world and Spetnaz is the scapel to cut it from the world



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by bet555
They should storm in blowing everyone to HELL ... That way at least you know they are dead and can never do this again. Besides they planned this waiting period they are waiting on something I hope that something isn't something big ....


Did anyone see Grozny after the bombardment during the second Chechen campaign???? There wasnt anything to see...



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 12:25 PM
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Nothing justifies this kind of attack. just imagine, what impression it will leave on children for returning to school? what state of mind they will be in? They may not even go back to school. Kids from other part of country also may not like to go to school.




Originally posted by Qoelet

Originally posted by phreak_of_nature
Maybe we can all get a better understand of the region.
Of course I don't think any of this justifies using children as political pawns in a violent situation, but it's nice to get an understanding of what radicalizes some people.


no worries... I dont think anything justifies this horror, but an uninformed view of the situation cannot make things any better?!?! mmm




posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 12:26 PM
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2004-09-01 21:13* RUSSIA * TERROR ACTS * CHURCH * APPEALS *

DO NOT SUCCUMB TO FEAR AND HATRED, PATRIARCH ALEXIS CALLS RUSSIA AFTER TERROR ACTS




Terrorists seized a secondary school in Beslan, North Ossetia, today, to take pupils hostage. As soon as he received the blood-curdling news, Theophanes Bishop of Stavropol and Vladikavkaz appealed to the bandits to release the children. "God's innocent creatures were under sacred protection of all peoples in all times," he said in a statement forwarded to President Alexander Dzasokhov of North Ossetia/Alania, reports the diocesan press service.

"May my call reach those who have captured the innocents! I appeal to them in the name of the Lord: set the children free! Harm not their tender hearts and budding souls! No goal canjustify what you are doing. Reason will take the upper hand, is my firm belief," says the bishop.

Bishop Theophanes expresses heartfelt compassion for his Christian flock in North Ossetia. "I am at one with you in your plight, my kind and pious Osset people. I pray to God for the drama to come to a happy ending," he says.

(emphasis added)
en.rian.ru...

Sanc'.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 12:26 PM
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i don't want to trivialise the situation, but I thought I'd mention: I have for a long time seen things in visions and dreams that would come rue the next day. For much of yesterday I was thinking of the Columbine school shootings, and then to see this today........I know that I knew something like this was about to happen. It feels good and bad at the same time.

Just thought I'd mention



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by Qoelet


Did anyone see Grozny after the bombardment during the second Chechen campaign???? There wasnt anything to see...


Yep, and to this day Chechnya looks like hell has frozen over.

Sanc'.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by netscape
Nothing justifies this kind of attack.


Well we have established one thing then...



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 12:35 PM
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I was actualy thinkin about the same thing...well Dunblane for me.

WTF do people use helpless children and adults to prove a point...having seen what they can do to 'make' there point first hand and having been violently sick because of it...gimme my damn weapon and ill go kill the captures for them!!!

grrr.....ok..me gettin angry now...damn maternal instints.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 01:05 PM
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there are reports that the hostage takers are speaking to russian OMON negotiaters. They managed to negotiate out of the hospital siege (after a bungled attack) so hopefully this will be the same (minus the bungling rescue attempt)...



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 01:07 PM
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Children, Muslim terrorist and russian soliders will die. Is religion the root of all evil. In the case of Muslims fanatics I think it is. The outcome of this situation will reek havoc and destruction upon those Mulsim fanatics. No Muslims will be safe from this devestation. Just take a look at what is transpiring in Nepal.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 02:33 PM
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This may be an unrelated topic but may hold some vital info later on:

Alu Alkhanov is now the 'official' new Chechen President.

He won a massive 73.67% of the total votes making him the clear winner.

Other people are saying that the whole thing was fixed due to polling stations being near deserted and it is a goverment tactic to ensure that the goverment gets what they want.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Might be right there,...with his new 'powers' maybe this guy could make or break the stale lock in chechnya




posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 05:12 PM
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Just a little news update for thos actually interested:

It is now estimated that hundreds of troops are outside the school surrounding every accessibly entrence and exit. They have been waiting outside half praying and half dreading incase anything happens to those unforunates inside the school gym hall.

They have not allowed food or water to be brought in and are adiment there demands are met.

World leaders are meeting by Moscows request for a security meeting following the deadly attacks in Russia over recent days.

news.bbc.co.uk...


Officials contacted the hostage-takers who refused to allow food and water to be brought in, Russian media reports.

World leaders have condemned the siege and the UN security Council is meeting shortly at Moscow's request to discuss a series of deadly attacks in Russia.


Well this is going to way into the nite and probably 2morrow as well...hopefully an argreement will be reached soon without more bloodshed.



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 05:12 PM
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is there any more word on this? i pray to God no one hurts the children.




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