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Sasquatch – Researchers conclusions – Taking theory one step further!

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posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 08:43 PM
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Oh wow..

Well, I`ll "show you my cards" when I feel my research and work into it is done. As I have previously stated in this thread. We wouldn`t be having this discussion if it wasn`t for your whining about me giving you a chocolate before dinner.

Btw. your theories about behavioral patterns that different geographical bigfoot present are interesting. I too, like I said believe they are divided by traits like humans all over the world. But I believe your assumptions are correct, but it`s not my preferred "batch of honey" to research details about every type of bigfoot. Like you say, I prefer the common, or generalized traits.

As for native indians, I`m sorry for not specifying that I`m talking about mutual respect. We`ll leave you alone and you leave us alone. Blood feuds has occurred, as well as historical reports of bigfoot kidnapping and raping human females. Not to forget far more well known kidnappings by both us and them. They are not far from being animals, and should be treated as such. In regard to all of this it is hard to know which hearsay is better than other hearsay - so I usually don`t venture into stories/ historical records of blood feuds and such. I say - natives have been living beside bigfoot since before white man sat foot on western soil. Natives and their elders elders sometimes want to limit other peoples access to bigfoot territory. In my eyes that means that they treat them with respect (combined with fear if you will).

I do believe with all the bigfoot "hunting/locating" going on that there will be bloodshed if we don`t figure out how to prevent it.

Quote: "It isn't about fieldwork, or computer research, or crunching data. In the field of bigfoot credability and honesty are everything."

Answer: What made you change your mind after going after "armchair speculation" - what I call research, analysis and creating theories?

I agree, on this theme it is about credibility and honesty... But I will present my work when I feel my work is ready. No chocolate for you before dinner.

As for you hoping that I`ve read some things that you haven`t, why should I have?
The question is what other fields do I know that makes my mental framework work in other ways then yours. With internet being what it is, most people have access to the same data. If we read everything then what I now told you will make all the difference. Do I think that research should be kept secret and commercialized - absolutely not. Almost all data I read, observe and use is available on the internet and in books.

The data only you and a few others have access to sounds great for you. Hope you and your friends do the right thing with it and do it for the good of everyone.

And remember, no chocolate before dinner.


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edit on 2-11-2011 by br0ker because: Added a smileyface for Caver78




posted on Nov, 3 2011 @ 03:14 PM
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Since you haven't posted anything concrete guess you don't have any chocolates for ANYONE much less me.


You asked for people to add or discuss but when hit with some cold hard facts decided it wasn't something you were going to deal with. Very disingenuous. tsk...tsk......this is probably why the crypto section here on ATS malingers.

btw I didn't backtrack on you being an armchair data cruncher....it merely dawned on me if you haven't had the opportunity to get some fieldwork under your belt that asking you for something you don't have wasn't fair. Nothing more.

It's fairly obvious you're wasting everyones time with your mental excercises and no real info will be presented. Pity really.



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by Caver78
Since you haven't posted anything concrete guess you don't have any chocolates for ANYONE much less me.


You asked for people to add or discuss but when hit with some cold hard facts decided it wasn't something you were going to deal with. Very disingenuous. tsk...tsk......this is probably why the crypto section here on ATS malingers.

btw I didn't backtrack on you being an armchair data cruncher....it merely dawned on me if you haven't had the opportunity to get some fieldwork under your belt that asking you for something you don't have wasn't fair. Nothing more.

It's fairly obvious you're wasting everyones time with your mental excercises and no real info will be presented. Pity really.


Well it doesn`t seem you have much to say other than my theories are interesting. No discussion of what I actually presented besides asking for more.

If you disagree to these theories - relating to common Canadian and central America bigfoot (specification for you), then please say so.

Your rejection of the theories being plausible will be duly noted.



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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I did add to your theories regarding observed Bigofot behavior by 'type'. Since there are 5 recognized types reported.To lump all behaviors demonstrated into one category will possibly get some unsuspecting person in a world of hurt out in the field. Much like bears and cougars the more specific you can be is of more assistance to others in case of an encounter.

jeichelberg made the case that '1) If they (Sasquatch) venerate and endow Homo Sapiens with "magical," powers, then at what point did this dynamic shift occur?' Begging the question why would you think that. You never responded to his query.

YOU MAKE THIS ARGUMENT;Social intelligence is also derived from their food offerings in numerous occasions - video, auditory and written documentation of this. Food offerings from humans (exotic fruit and trees on “our” turf) are often returned with rabbit, roots and such. Social intelligence by stone and branch buildings / interaction with humans is also commonly recorded. If social intelligence is present, then why don`t they try to communicate with humans and are so illusive you may ask?

Instead of demonstrating their social intelligence by showing proof that Bigfoot's stick structures are actually a system of communication, as accepted now by some field researchers ,and an ingenius way to comunicate effectively while avoiding detection.

You tied stick structures to their physical strength instead and wrongly to their need for shelter. While I'm not saying they don't need some sort of shelter occassionally the flimsy stick structures found to date are hardly adequate for that purpose.

Here now are three examples of how posters have complied with your request and you have as yet to do more than be dismissive. As a matter of fact speaking to jeichelberg's post there have been many reports documented of Bigfoot coming closer when weapons are fired and swiping a hunters prize, so the level of fear you ascribe to them having for us magic humans is another mistaken assumption.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 12:07 AM
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Originally posted by Caver78



Good post Caver78.

The reports of bigfoot swiping a hunters prize have illuded me. At least I can`t remember having read it, or taken notice of it. I would guess the ones in question were: either extremely hungry, know that man won`t fire upon them, attribute the death of the game to "natural cause" or just plain crazy. Any thoughts?

I would guess the shift to "magical powers" would have taken place over a bit less than a thousand years. First gun was recorded in 919 A.D. Steam car 1678. The first guns really gave us the firepower needed to stand up to a bigfoot alone. Then it gradually accelerates. Over the last 6 generations I almost feel that we`ve been attributed magical powers my self. I would have no clue in h*ll how to make a computer chip from scratch. Yet this is something that makes machinery work all around us, every day.

I believe there are tree snaps that are for other purposes. Show of strength is a known before mating ritual in most animals, humans included. Show of strength is also used to intimidate. I you had someone following you and you wanted them to go away without hurting them you`d probably throw a huge rock nearby or snap an enormous branch to show you mean business. Or small if you wanna play just frighten them a bit. Besides. Many of the branches and trees recorded snapped are still in place - not moved to shelter. Others of course you find defying gravity placed high up in the trees. Almost reminds me of a deer hunters post. But if I was on the move often I`d use - like them - natural structures and make myself an easy shelter using that and breaking off whatever else I might need. Nothing new here, same as everyone else believes I guess.

How many reports do you get nowadays of people being attacked by bigfoot? You`ll find more in history than in the present. I`ll stick by my theory until otherwise proven wrong. (On the other hand there has been many reports of Canadian Native girls going missing. Are we looking at human or bigfoot kidnappings? Makes you think eh...

I remember wondering about that when I read this article presented in a thread on ATS. globalvoicesonline.org... nce-of-native-women/
With 600 people over 25 years you`d think something might be up. Besides, bigfoot is more attracted to womens voices than men - so it`s not completely out of the question. Highway 16 and British Columbia has been a place of many many many reports, tracks etc. of bigfoot. Also reports of bigfoot running over Highway 16, so they are in the vicinity.

Oh, I do believe they`ve tried to communicate with people many many many many times. It just hasn`t worked.
I have often pondered about the case of Albert Ostman. I like better the cases where people not really want to talk about it. Anywayz, since he was working with axmen and timber workers this case like a few others are especially intriguing. I someone was chopping down you`re livelyhood and home - and you had a family. Would you try to get them to stop? As there clearly is a language barrier on multiple levels - the bigfoot took Albert back to his family. This is what I would do,,, hey man, you see? we live here? I have a family here!!
The bigfoot didn`t hurt him over the duration, and Albert wasn`t scared enough to pull his rifle on it. They were "sharing" food (read: bigfoot stealing what he ate). And since he escaped, I guess the bigfoot didn`t try to chase him once he got the snuff washed out of his system.. Bottom line - I especially love the case of Albert - and I believe it was a form of trying to communicate across the language barrier. Why do you believe bigfoot snatched him - given if you believe it to be true?

The stick structure communication you`re talking about is also quite interesting. Don`t know how far they`ve come in desiphering it. Personally I don`t know enough to categorize it as anything but markings used to easier navigate and mark you`re territory. When a hunter is out hunting he usually looks for horizontal lines to easier locate big game. The same can be applied to horizontal logs for easier navigation for instance. Finding you`re mark would be most important, so the horizontal branch would go up first. If there is no horizontal branch then it might indicate that you`re not wandering far and desperate for finding you`re "note to self or others". Just pondering the structures here, and possible meanings. Need to give it some more thought.

So what do you believe their saying with the structures and how do you believe they`ve gone about creating a common understanding of them? If they`re meant as messages to others that is.

You`re more focused on the different "races" of bigfoot than I am. So do you think they`re all able to communicate or have the same understanding of the structures?
edit on 5-11-2011 by br0ker because: branch -> stick



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 12:12 AM
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Btw.

Don`t know if it`s been done yet. But would be interesting to field test crossing the structures between different races. Setting up typical Central American structure on the Canadian coast f.ex.? From areas of sightings that is.

Set up some audio recording equipment that doesn`t stick out and let it rip.

Need to do some work categorizing and databasing location of different stick structures if I`m gonna contribute anything on that field.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 12:47 AM
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Oh.. and one more thing. Anyone read the book that just came out? Tracking bigfoot by Donald Wallace and his daughter?

I`m interested in that one and one by William Jevning called Notes from the field.

Both are available for Kindle, but Kindle isn`t legal where I live. So I need to get them in regular .pdf format.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 01:21 AM
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reply to post by br0ker
 


Thank you for this information. I have downloaded them to my kindle and will read over the next couple of days.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 08:10 AM
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This is one of a few stick-structure theories I've found but is more in depth than most.
www.youtube.com...

While other researchers have worked out meanings to the sign they've found this video takes it several steps further. Enjoy.

www.thedailybeast.com...
Is this what you were refering too.
edit on 5-11-2011 by Caver78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 11:02 AM
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I can tell you this,an experienced hunter going through the forest is like a loud group of teenagers,a hiker is like a fire engine with a wailing siren and flashing lights.

You need to be spiritual when you enter nature.

Really,find me another human who has stalked and touched a bedded whitetail deers flank??

Seriously.

I did that when I was a small boy,I used to be able to smell the scent of deer clearly in the forest especially if they were damp or wet at all,as soon as I got older and started smoking the ability vanished.

I dont care who you are as a hunter or an outdoorsman or woman,show me the money,go touch yourself a deer ,play some real tag and then talk to me.

You wont be able to do it ,a birdwatcher has a ten times better chance than a hunter.

It is a spiritual journey when you stalk living things in nature.We actually use our supernatural talents,thats why I say spiritual.

I am not joking,to be blunt you people dont belong there,the ones who know or will learn how wont be like you ,they wont tell you what they see.

I will say this,as a small boy I was enamoured with Hiawatha,Geronimo,Sitting Bull and other Native peoples.I read many story books that were fiction and many that were auto-biographies,lots of history.

I WANTED to be like them,I lived in a rural environment surrounded by bush.To be blunt ,I didnt know what I couldnt do,so I did what I wanted to do according to natures laws.

You want to learn something,you need to believe in it first,with your heart.

my last tip,when you are stalking something in nature you are really"surfing"through an ocean of different currents or dynamics,its like watching overhead as a person races across a city,stopping hundreds of times to wait at crossing lights,to give way to other people ,to navigate different landmarks sometimes having to take a circitus route to maintain their directio.


Now replace all the obstacles in that picture with natures obstacles,then remember that as you ABSOLUTELY CANNOT force your way across the city at a speed of your own choice,you may be lucky and encounter a series of good situations that allow you to speed across really fast but maybe you will never get across really fast,nature ebbs and flows and you CANNOT FIGHT THE FLOW,not at all.

This is the major obstacle to people who want to search for this species.

They are intelligent and they know that we will ALWAYS destroy natures balance when we enter their neighborhood.,we are really like fire engines out there,and hunters are generally pretty uninformed and have no clue about what I am talking about,their waepons ensure they are hopeless to learn.

You cannot go into nature with a weapon that screws all of your data and then kill something by violating ALL OF NATURES LAWS.and then believe you understand or are experienced with nature,you are only experienced at ploughing through the shoreline of the ocean that is mother nature.

So if the forest is like the ocean and we only slosh along in the water of the shoreline,then we can all extrapolate that we are MISSING 99% of what is realy out there.If we use our belief and spirituality then we will be able to go as deep into natures forest ocean as we wish.And then we will discover many new things.

If you want lessons they are free,u2u me if you have any questions.If you dont believe I could smell deer and touched one then you cant possibly begin to believe in yourself enough to easily learn.Just saving time.
edit on 5-11-2011 by one4all because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by Caver78
This is one of a few stick-structure theories I've found but is more in depth than most.
www.youtube.com...

While other researchers have worked out meanings to the sign they've found this video takes it several steps further. Enjoy.

www.thedailybeast.com...
Is this what you were refering too.
edit on 5-11-2011 by Caver78 because: (no reason given)


Thanks for the tip. Already subscribed to forestsheperds channel but haven`t gotten around to viewing all of it yet. Do you follow timbergiantbigfoots channel? He just got a new HD camera, ought to be good for the future.

Jupp, that`s the primary article I was referring to. Gonna check out the vid tonight, now it`s off for the movies. They`re showing the prequel to The Thing - and I need a fix



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by heffo7
 


Nice!!

Would mean a lot if you could give me and others here a short review of the books when you`re done. I`m still trying to get around the not-legal-kindle obstacle.



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 01:53 AM
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Someone asked to see the videos I was speaking of, but instead of me trying to point you to each video separately, the best place to see the majority of them is the SasquatchWatcher on Youtube. I would say that at least 80% of the videos analyzed by this person are most likely legitimate.

There are some videos that will never be proven one way or another, such as the Patterson film...The thing with that film though is that most of the claims people have made towards it being fake can be debunked, so it's hard to tell. For instance, the main claims have been that there was some floppy thing on the right foot, which turns out could actually be a natural feature of the creature, as touted by actual academics who have viewed the footage.

I don't know if it is real, but it has stood up to academic scrutiny for decades, and has yet to be proven a fake. But ya, check out the video channel on youtube that I mentioned above, as all of the junk has been weeded out already. There are just so many common threads in the videos for them to be done by many different hoaxers. I would say that I can think of only 2 or 3 videos that I believe to be hoaxes on that channel, because the movements etc. don't fit with most of the other evidence.



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 05:11 AM
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reply to post by JiggyPotamus
 


Jupp, But some times I get annoyed by "BF hunters" that film absolutely everything, Saswatcher gave me that feeling. Sometimes a bit excessive, like filming the car-ride into the woods. Mostly irritating because it`s time consuming.

But then again, it`s extremely positive for our "armchair studies" and I shouldn`t really complain for them doing us a huge favor of uploading it



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 05:22 AM
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reply to post by one4all
 


Well, I don`t really think anyone actually puts their spirituality into moving about in the woods - BUT there are a lot of people that are extremely good at moving quietly. BF researchers in general not being one of them. Never seen one do anything by walking quietly upright with shoes on - with camo - at most.

I don`t believe you can reproduce that result of you walking up to the deer and stroking it. You could try, but it wouldn`t happen no matter how spiritual you are. Same odds as every one else like you`re saying. And if you try, please document it. I`ll have a laugh at the failed attempts and eat my words if you actually do it


Anyway, back to all the hunters. There are actually hunters with sniper training out there. Imagine a hunter that can spend an entire day sneaking up on an animal. The only problem would be the smell of man, the same problem you will have - no matter how spiritual you are. Unless the deer has no sense of smell, blind as a bat or just flat out stupid that is - maybe you petted one of those?



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 06:38 PM
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Your scent is the least of your problems because long before you begin to throw your dice on the table with your first gamble{as in you need to be spiritually connected to everything around you,I DONT MEAN your five senses alone either,you need to first know what is around you then you need to be able to BE or think like everything around you INCLUDING nature in the form of weather and physical aspects like ground and leaves,ect.You need to think like a worm,a bird,a leaf,a piece of ground,a wisp or wind,the shallow depression in the ground where the roots of a long since blown down tree used to be feels a certain way now that the tree is gone and its feelings can be "read"by where it will carry the wisps of wind that you also understand.you see you are so far off base it is interesting because your scent is really the least of your problems ,I never in my life used a cover scent although I am sure all the cow manure on my boots was a familiar smell to the deer.

Try to forget about hunting or "sniping"you are missing the point ,these are activities that occupy your mind,which happens to be the biggest tool in your box.

A sniper only touches the fringe of what I mean because they are NEVER faced with the challenges stalking a deer in its own environment pose,NEVER.


Simply the deers sense of smell makes this comparison silly,same with hikers and hunters,you are more likely to have a random sighting if you just play frisbee near a potential easy to get food source close to water,because then an intelligent animal will think it is sneaking up on an occupied target.Remember this is an intelligent species so all the groundrules of hunting go out the window just like all the groundrules of sniping go out the _

Think about it this way,you need to "become"or think like every single thing in your environment,then you need to superimpose the perspective of every one of those living things over the picture you see of the physical terrain then you need to superimpose another overlay in your mind as you allow your knowledge of nature to let "smoke"roll over your area and because of your knowledge of heat and sun the smoke might be thick or thin or high or low to the ground,depending on other things you know it may flow fast enough over a certain terrain feature to send itself a specific directon,you will need to follow the "spiritual" ,imaginary if you like that word better"smoke"wherever it goes WHENEVER TI CHANGES DIRECTION,wherever it goes,you might not be so happy with your path either ,I have found that crappy things usually attract wind currents and eddies..

I just had a funny thought and I know this perspective is new to you ,ha ha---hows this?you need to be a worm to,you want to know why,worms only live in certain places and those are important if you are in worm country,worms like to eat certain foods as well and this combonation means that worms are a sign leading you along a silent path if you know its there,worms eat rotting stuff so the places they always are are damp and that means not crunchy and we all know what that means in the forest.

You also need to be connected especially to the sunlight and the moonlight because they will show you "spiritual smoke"that you can allow to flow through your picture that will take you places EXACTLY as the "emotional wind"did!

If you learn to behave like light does you will see things like the light does and you will see things you have always been blinded to no matter how woodsmart you think you are.

I am serious,I care not if you are a professional hunter,a professional sniper,or a professional hiker,I MIGHT RESPECT A PROFESSIONAL BIRDWATCHERS CHANCES,but the aforementioned professions do not put you in na very good position to understand nature.

I know there are people who want to learn this but have never been exposed to it,listen its simple,if you play pool -billiards or darts--for that matter anything you constantly do with one hand--do an experiment so you can get yourself in the proper mindset regarding this new tool you have found,play a regular game of pool but tell one of your buddies that at random moments in your game he has to stop you and tell you to put the pool cue or dart ect in your OTHER HAND---now stick with it as awkward as it seems and absorb the ENTIRELY NEW WAY YOU SEE YOUR ACTIONS,if you play pool especially you will immediatly see"shape"on the table you ABSOLUTELY didnt consider with the cue in your comfortable hand,I am ambidexterous ,try darts you might be surprised how well you can nail the bullseye with your off hand.

Now understand that I am not being cocky to tell you that you are where I was at ten yrs old in the forest because it wasnt as hard as you think to touch a whitetail and although at my age it is unlikely to happen again ,I could certainly teach anyone with better muscle coordination and senses to do the same.

I hope the example of overlaying perspectives helps people understand.



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to post by one4all
 


Short answer for you: No!
Long answer: I disagree, and you`re talking jibbrish. You wrote all that jibbrish to say that no human except you and maybe bird-watchers are the only ones that could find bigfoot? Jeez
edit on 7-11-2011 by br0ker because: expanding long answer



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 12:48 PM
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Actually One4All is quite correct in that making yourself part of the landscape on multiple levels is key to not only getting closer to wildlife, but it seems to attract the Bigfoot.
1- you are already taking a non-threatening approach
2-it stands out from the norm as far as Humans go
3- it makes you in a limited way a threat to them that must be checked out

Dismiss it all you want, but it DOES work. Not every animal out there is paying attention, just as we don't in our own urban environment. I've had numerous animals wander way too close when using One4All's description of how to act. It's been accidental as I don't know him/her but was in the outdoors persuing my own agenda. I'm merely agreeing with his/her post because the evidence I have supports the theory.

Equally this is not to diss the woodscraft of others, it's just an observation of fact.
Actually he/she is supporting your own theory of we need to approach the bigfoot with respect in the same way's it's supposed all Native peoples do. So you reversed your position why again.



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by br0ker

Originally posted by Caver78




QUOTE BrOker;
1-The reports of bigfoot swiping a hunters prize have illuded me. At least I can`t remember having read it, or taken notice of it. I would guess the ones in question were: either extremely hungry, know that man won`t fire upon them, attribute the death of the game to "natural cause" or just plain crazy. Any thoughts?

2-I would guess the shift to "magical powers" would have taken place over a bit less than a thousand years. First gun was recorded in 919 A.D. Steam car 1678. The first guns really gave us the firepower needed to stand up to a bigfoot alone. Then it gradually accelerates. Over the last 6 generations I almost feel that we`ve been attributed magical powers my self. I would have no clue in h*ll how to make a computer chip from scratch. Yet this is something that makes machinery work all around us, every day.

3-Oh, I do believe they`ve tried to communicate with people many many many many times. It just hasn`t worked.

4-So what do you believe their saying with the structures and how do you believe they`ve gone about creating a common understanding of them? If they`re meant as messages to others that is.

5-You`re more focused on the different "races" of bigfoot than I am. So do you think they`re all able to communicate or have the same understanding of the structure.

Going to take these one at a time here.
1- There are many reports of Bigfoot snatching deer, elk and hogs. Just because one carries a weapon doesn't make it a threat to them since they remain hidden. A hunter can't kill what he either isn't aware of or can't see. Once a Bigfoot determines how many hunters are in a location, and ttheir specific locations moving around them is simple. Being faster and already in position, it's simple to make off with the downed animal. Many hunters aren't even looking for them. It's been also reported gunfire draws them in as it's a signal there will be the potential for a free dinner.

2- Being advanced or magical is in the eye of the beholder. To bigfoot they may simply have no use for the same things we do. By all accounts they are hunter/gatherers so traveling light, freedom of movement or lack of attachment to a particular place would be paramount. They have never struck me as 'stupid' so it's very possible they don't see our toys as necessary to what already works for them.

3- That's a conclusion I have real issues with as equally many people HAVE reported communications with them on an individual basis. From lost kids being taken care of by them till S/R arrives to kewanee Lapersitis's ongoing saga. Just because one of them hasn't shoved a 'spoke's squatch' forward to make a press release in no way negates they do and have communicated with humans.

4-what they are saying with the structures has also been outlined in multiple reports. From regular trailmarkers to marking water sources to the X's used to singify boundaries.

5- is the easiest...lol. I don't 'focus' on the types or races, it was a glaringly obvious gap in your generalization theory. As preliminary leaks from the Ketchum Study is indicating, and the Russians have already decided we are dealing with another type of human. Even the Natives historically had a universal trade language used across North America. Why Bigfoot wouldn't also is a no brainer. As researchers decyper the tree sign it's being applied in other locations , and shockingly being discovered to have the same meanings. And before you run off the rails....

rt.com...



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by Caver78
 


Huh.. didn`t know they took hair samples from the cave. So I sure didn`t know they had the results yet. Thought they concluded by the prints etc. after the conference that bigfoot was 95% probable. Before the hairsamples that is..

Well, I differ between communication and communication. Sticks and stones are lesser communication, when I don`t see real communication I mean where language is being used and understood/made understood. Relating words to objects - from bigfoot to man. Though theory goes far, it`s not really sure that the whoo op means what it means. The whistle, the different howls, the copycating of human voices.. etc. I can`t see that anyone has given much evidence of "the words/expressions" are what we think they are.

As for stick structures, I can see how "water" and "tipi" can be proven beyond doubt by enough examples of home and water being close to the structures.






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