Exposing the evils of Wicca Witchcraft!

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
We define good or bad in relation to the Bible and the Bible ALONE. The Bible is our FINAL AUTHORITY.

By we, I am assuming you mean YOU seeing as how you are the only one you can speak for.

That being the case, lets see what Your Bible has to say on the matter.

5I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Hhhmmm there is none other than God. So, even the wiccans are part and parcel of God.

6That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

He seems pretty adamant that it is only he, no satan, no devil, just God.

7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Still saying he is everything, even the EVIL you perceive.

8Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.

This God in your Bible seems pretty pissed that he isn't given the recognition for creating EVERYTHING!

9Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

Pretty logical. Do not question the creator of EVERYTHING as to why HE created EVERYTHING.

10Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth? 11Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

Sounds like you better take your complaint about Wiccans existing to the creator of EVERYTHING and ask him why he had the audacity to create them.

What did this God's son say?

22The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. 23But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

Can you see the whole of creation my friend, or have you filled your eye with darkness that you may blot out what you do not wish to see?

. 47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

If you see evil my friend, it is within you. Pluck out your evil eye!

If thine eye be evil

I could go on and on about loving your neighbor, blessing the poor, healing the sick, and all those things Christ commanded his followers to actually do, but sadly you would not listen.

So go on your Paladin ways my friend. Take up your sword, better yet, take two!

One for your enemy, and one for yourself.

He who lives by the sword, will die by the sword.

With Love,

Your Brother

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


It is always nice to sail up to historical accuracy as close as possible and get a good
look for yourself.

With your own eyes.

Originally posted by darkredfish
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

We never said you COULDN'T worship the devil, we just said that MOST DON'T and NOT ALL worship the devil.

Darkred, that is exactly my point. There were many Wiccans on this thread that said Wicca did not involve devil worship. But it can and does, even though there are Wiccans who do not. That is what we have to address then, if Wicca does allow worship of the devil, then Wicca is a complicit religion, meaning that even though there are those who do not, they are complicit when others do.

The problem becomes this, if Wicca is complicit, then it is disingenuous to deny what they allow while accepting those who do. I have never said anything mean-spirited or hateful to any Wiccan or Pagan on this thread. I have been very forward about what I believe and some have responded very nicely to me. Those are the ones who can teach the most about Wicca.

I think it would be better to say it like this "Even though I don't, I acknowledge that my religion allows it". But too often, Christians are held to a different standard and some Wiccans and Pagans want Christians held accountable for their religion. I took that task on because I am a Christian. But it is unfair to hold Christians accountable without holding Wiccans and Pagans accountable for theirs. If we are supposed to live in tolerance and acceptance, then it must be across the board. And no one should expect another to verify every point of religion, without having to verify their own. Fairness is as fairness does, and if we want to not persecute each other, then we should all be honest about our respective religions.

I think I have been fair all along and can say this has been a very intriguing conversation. Thank you all for your positive input. But there have been some who have posted on this thread who created other threads attacking Christian beliefs, taking the argument out of spite. That is sad and destructive. And it is not tolerant or accepting of other peoples faiths.

WarminIndy

I have heard several Wiccans on here call Lucifer the Lightbearer, which is the Freemason definition.

The Masons? It's what the two root words mean in Latin. It's also part of the Christian story about Satan that he began his career as the most lustrous of angels, before he rebelled. "Lucifer" is used by Christians in connection with that part of their story, as Satan's orginal name.

That also allows them to tie Satan to a story about a human king, referred to as Lucifer, who got his comeupance in the Hebrew Bible (Isaiah 14: 12-17). The Hebrew Satan has no connection with that story, any more than the Hebrew Satan appears in the Garden of Eden.

All Christian accretions, and there wouldn't be any such thing as a Freemason for centuries to come.

The founders of Freemasonry considered Satan as Baphomet.

No, the Baphomet fantasy was yet another Christian confection, used as an accusation by sovreign creditors against their fellow Christians, the Templars, who lent the kings money which the kings preferred not to repay.

After a few hours with hammers and tongs, many Templars were only too happy to agree that they had worshipped Baphomet, committed sodomy, defiled communion bread, whatever the guy with the red-hot pliers wanted. Baphomet was later given a face in a famous bit of art work by the Nineteenth Century author Eliphas Levi. "The Sabbath Goat" was an illustration in one of his books. Very fanciful, to be sure, but much, much later than X-Satan.

Ok, not all Wiccans serve Baphomet, I never once said that.

You also have never produced even one Wiccan who does. You just keep saying it's possible that some Wiccan would. It's also possible to be a Wiccan Christian. So what?

I suspect you would agree that the possibility that a Wiccan would choose Jesus as his or her personal god doesn't make Wicca a Christian denomination. Why does the possibility of a Wiccan choosing some version of Satan make Wicca a Satanic denomination?

Again, not a Christian invention.

The Christians took the Hebrew name for a loyal angel and slapped it onto their personification of evil, a grotesque who started out as a metaphor for the Roman Empire - before the Christians ran it, of course. Then the grotesque had to stand for something else. The cosmic personification of evil was born.

Originally posted by eight bits
WarminIndy

Ok, not all Wiccans serve Baphomet, I never once said that.

You also have never produced even one Wiccan who does. You just keep saying it's possible that some Wiccan would. It's also possible to be a Wiccan Christian. So what?

Again, not a Christian invention.

I do not have to produce one, all I am saying is that it is allowed. That is my point, Wicca and Paganism allow it. I have posted sources from your side. I did not say Wiccans did, I said it is allowable and permissible. And if it is permissible, then are there not Wiccans who do? I think it would be naive to think there are none.

My own brother is a Wiccan. He is also a Freemason. I know many people who claim to be Wiccan and Pagan so it is not like I know nothing about it. Let's move forward on this point, if Wicca allows it, then cannot it not also approve of it?

WarminIndy

... your side ...

Just to be clear, I am not a Wiccan, and nobody here posts from my "side." This seems to keep coming up.

I think it would be naive to think there are none.

Then it must be equally naive to think there are no Wiccans who worship Jesus, since that, too, is permissible. I have corresponded with a member on another board describes herself as a Christian witch, for example. I don't know whether she's Wiccan, but it does remind us of the serious possibility of combining a nature religion with moderate Christianity. So, I ask again,

I suspect you would agree that the possibility that a Wiccan would choose Jesus as his or her personal god doesn't make Wicca a Christian denomination. Why does the possibility of a Wiccan choosing some version of Satan make Wicca a Satanic denomination?

I know many people who claim to be Wiccan and Pagan so it is not like I know nothing about it.

Few of my comments have been about your personal knowledge. I don't know you. The site you posted was not a Wiccan site, and the page was not a Wiccan page, contrary to claim. Most of the rest of our discussion has been about Christian beliefs, especially those concerning the Devil. Neither a knowledge of Wicca nor a knowledge of paganism would bear on that, one way or the other.

Let's move forward on this point, if Wicca allows it, then cannot it not also approve of it?

What "it" are you asking about? Wicca allows everything except what is harmful to someone. People can disagree about what is harmful, I suppose. For something stronger than allowing, there is no official organ that I know of to approve or disapprove of anything. Individual Wiccans would approve or disapprove as they see fit, I imagine, or perhaps some coven consensus would prevail locally.

I do not have to produce one, all I am saying is that it is allowed. That is my point, Wicca and Paganism allow it. I have posted sources from your side. I did not say Wiccans did, I said it is allowable and permissible. And if it is permissible, then are there not Wiccans who do? I think it would be naive to think there are none.

My own brother is a Wiccan. He is also a Freemason. I know many people who claim to be Wiccan and Pagan so it is not like I know nothing about it. Let's move forward on this point, if Wicca allows it, then cannot it not also approve of it?

You are misinterpreting what wicca is.

Wicca is a way, simply put, to find your OWN religon.

You say that because wicca allows it, it is aproved, when in fact since wicca is NOT organized at a major scale, nobody allows it, nor condems it.

I hope this cleared stuff up

Originally posted by darkredfish

I do not have to produce one, all I am saying is that it is allowed. That is my point, Wicca and Paganism allow it. I have posted sources from your side. I did not say Wiccans did, I said it is allowable and permissible. And if it is permissible, then are there not Wiccans who do? I think it would be naive to think there are none.

My own brother is a Wiccan. He is also a Freemason. I know many people who claim to be Wiccan and Pagan so it is not like I know nothing about it. Let's move forward on this point, if Wicca allows it, then cannot it not also approve of it?

You are misinterpreting what wicca is.

Wicca is a way, simply put, to find your OWN religon.

You say that because wicca allows it, it is aproved, when in fact since wicca is NOT organized at a major scale, nobody allows it, nor condems it.

I hope this cleared stuff up

Wicca is very organised at a major scale people just don't see alot of it because it's a passive religion. In Australia it's the only recognised religion of all the pagan religions because several years ago a great lot of Wiccans put their hand up to be counted in the census.

I dont see where the OP is spewing hatred thru this thread I see them stating truth with biblical knowledge to back it up and the only real rebuttal i have seen from the other side is "if you belive in God" or "if you believe in the bible" this is from those that choose to deny the truth. good topic here OP keep it up.

Originally posted by JROCK2527
I dont see where the OP is spewing hatred thru this thread I see them stating truth with biblical knowledge to back it up and the only real rebuttal i have seen from the other side is "if you belive in God" or "if you believe in the bible" this is from those that choose to deny the truth. good topic here OP keep it up.

Did you see the OP when it was first posted before it was smoothed out by the MODS?

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by JROCK2527
I dont see where the OP is spewing hatred thru this thread I see them stating truth with biblical knowledge to back it up and the only real rebuttal i have seen from the other side is "if you belive in God" or "if you believe in the bible" this is from those that choose to deny the truth. good topic here OP keep it up.

Did you see the OP when it was first posted before it was smoothed out by the MODS?

edit on 1-11-2011 by steveknows because: (no reason given)

Why are you posting lies on my topic to try and make me look bad? Mod's haven't touched my original post as far as I'm aware. I'd appreciate it if you didn't make stuff up.

Thanks.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by JROCK2527
I dont see where the OP is spewing hatred thru this thread I see them stating truth with biblical knowledge to back it up and the only real rebuttal i have seen from the other side is "if you belive in God" or "if you believe in the bible" this is from those that choose to deny the truth. good topic here OP keep it up.

Did you see the OP when it was first posted before it was smoothed out by the MODS?

edit on 1-11-2011 by steveknows because: (no reason given)

Why are you posting lies on my topic to try and make me look bad? Mod's haven't touched my original post as far as I'm aware. I'd appreciate it if you didn't make stuff up.

Thanks.

But you did edit out the bit where you called me arrogant for saying jealousy was one of the 10 commandments and then you must of read them again and realised that it was the 10th one lol, and he has edited the original post.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


RG good to see you again!
Do you have anything to say or to add to your conversation today?
One of your fellow Christians seems to have taken your place as OP, and I have to say has done a very good job in your absence. He has made a point of attempting to understand, as well as stating his case.
Understanding is key yes?

Originally posted by darkredfish
I have some questins for revhen, and when i get into town on mondat, i want them awnsered.

1. Tell us your conversion story. Why are you christan now vs your old religon?
2. Tell me the diffrwnce between divine power and magic without using bible quotes, i would prefer common logic if possible.
3. When you say these thoughts are from luvifer, how do you suppose they got there?[direct talking,subliminals,possession,ect]
4. What else do you hate,?
Check all that apply:
Non-christians
Evolutionists
Gays
Humans
Gingers
Blacks
Mexicans
Herbal medicines
Catholics
Music stars
Harry potter
Unicorns
Puppies
Nyan cat

I will be awaiting my aqnees when i arrive into town.

do not dissapount me!!! [red]

Its been aqhile...

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by JROCK2527
I dont see where the OP is spewing hatred thru this thread I see them stating truth with biblical knowledge to back it up and the only real rebuttal i have seen from the other side is "if you belive in God" or "if you believe in the bible" this is from those that choose to deny the truth. good topic here OP keep it up.

Did you see the OP when it was first posted before it was smoothed out by the MODS?

edit on 1-11-2011 by steveknows because: (no reason given)

Why are you posting lies on my topic to try and make me look bad? Mod's haven't touched my original post as far as I'm aware. I'd appreciate it if you didn't make stuff up.

Thanks.

I'm not posting lies you liar. Read what the MODS said. I believe you're just an alround bad person and I will no longer give you energy. If your God is as nice as you say he is you're in for a rude awakening when you pass.

Originally posted by boymonkey74

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by JROCK2527
I dont see where the OP is spewing hatred thru this thread I see them stating truth with biblical knowledge to back it up and the only real rebuttal i have seen from the other side is "if you belive in God" or "if you believe in the bible" this is from those that choose to deny the truth. good topic here OP keep it up.

Did you see the OP when it was first posted before it was smoothed out by the MODS?

edit on 1-11-2011 by steveknows because: (no reason given)

Why are you posting lies on my topic to try and make me look bad? Mod's haven't touched my original post as far as I'm aware. I'd appreciate it if you didn't make stuff up.

Thanks.

But you did edit out the bit where you called me arrogant for saying jealousy was one of the 10 commandments and then you must of read them again and realised that it was the 10th one lol, and he has edited the original post.

edit on 2-11-2011 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)

I made a typo everything I said stands. The OP isJust an unethical person with nothing real to say.

Would turning a Staff into a serpent, and parting a sea be called magic? The bible is full of magic and magical things.

Genesis 44:5 "...in which my lord drinketh and whereby indeed he devineth"

This is a Jesus-following Wiccan's statement of her faith which I found online.

www.godisnowhereonline.info...

Please note that I didn't claim there were any Presbyterian Wiccans, just that a Wiccan might accept Jesus Christ as a god.

Onto Satan and Wicca. I wasn't able to find a corresponding Wiccan personal statement of faith in Satan. Of course, Christians are far more numerous than Satanists. I was, however, able to find an apparent Wiccan professing angels,

white-witchcraft.blogspot.com...

She doesn't mention Satan, but as I've already posted, the Hebrew Bible's Satan would be as "good" an angel as Michael and Garbiel. The other angels she names, Raphael and Uriel, appear only in deuterocanonical Hebrew works (apocrypha) within the Biblical tradition familiar to Nicene Chrsitians.


WarminIndy

Let's move forward on this point, if Wicca allows it, then cannot it not also approve of it?

Based on what I searched through while looking for the above attested instances, there seems to be proportionally almost as much Wiccan resistance to adopting as Jesus as there is active Christian resistance to adopting Wicca. Similarly, professing Satanists seem as anxious to distance themselves from Wiccans as Wiccans are to distance themselves from Satanists.

This pretty much ensures that "Wiccan Satanist" will be at least as atypical as "Wiccan Christian" for some time to come. Yes, the Wiccan religion permits those combinations, but the ideas of the Wiccan religion do not blend easily with either one.

Wiccan acceptance of other angels of God seems generally to be based, as it is in the article cited above, on the existence of angels or proto-angels in ancient non-revealed religions. X-Satan's real antecedent is Zoroaster's Ahriman. The Zoroastrian religion is as much revealed ( = based upon believing absent humans' testimonies about the supernatural) as any Abrahamic religion. There's a lot of Zoroaster in the Abrahamics, thanks to the Hebrew domination by Persians and Christianity's emergence in a Hellenistic world.

So, Ahriman-Satan-Iblis suffers an impediment to Wiccan acceptance that Hebrew angels do not. He has only ever appeared in revealed religious traditions, and revelation is what Wiccans nearly unanimously reject.

Conceivably, the Hebrew Satan could make it into Wicca, as his fellow Hebrew angels of God have done, if there were a constituency for him. One problem with building that constituency is that he so rarely appears in the Hebrew Bible, despite how often Christian readers claim to find him there.

reply to post by WarminIndy

I think other Wiccans on here have addressed my point. The definition of Wicca involves serving whatever way, path, entity, deity, spirit or whomever you choose and you worship that within the definition of it. Is that not correct?

WarminIndy, good question you pose here. To me it is all the same Force of Divine Energy, and whatever name you call it, it is all same same. This Force its at our disposal, to help us out in times of need, to heal the sick, to punish the wicked. Once this Force is known, and accepted, it becomes a part of you, and you a part of it.

I quote myself from another post.
We all have encoded DNA, that which is the building blocks of man/womankind, and this DNA contains blueprint not only for the human body you see in the mirror every day, but, even more than that....it also contains the entire consciousness and manifestation of the Universe itself. Who is the CREATOR here? "I AM." (meant in a metaphoric way)"

All we need do, friends and neighbors, is STOP IT. Stop it all, everything that is fake, everything that is designed to control us. Turn our collective backs to everyone, everything that stands against us, or attempts to control us. And standing together is the point of this exercise. The World is a whole lot more than we can see, and never trust your human eyes anyway!
There are evil, sinister forces that want to control our Spirits. They know that we do not know who or what our Spirit is. May I submit that within each one of us is in fact a Divine Spirit? Divine even to ET? Perhaps we are the God/Goddess everyone has been searching for all of this time? The Moon and the Sun have been charged with certain attributes ever since the dawn of time. The Moon was the first universal measurer of time. The Moon symbolizes time, fate, spinning, wheels, weaving, cauldrons, and of course the Great Mother, or Feminine influence. (The time is NOW, ladies)

Does this make sense to anyone besides me?

reply to post by IAMIAM

I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Please. There are 18 "Gods" in the Bible, and all wish to be called "Lord." I have posted the names in here before. There are two Goddesses too, one is known as the Queen of Heaven.