Exposing the evils of Wicca Witchcraft!

Why are humans so much less in tune with stuff than animals...Do animals worship anything? Are they permitted to exist? Do they burn in eternity for eating each other or fighting or abandoning their young?

The need peeps have to have to make up a imaginary deity, whether a woodland spirit, a dastardly fallen angel, and bearded sky bully, a winged Ancient goddess or a Zombie Jew...makes me wander about the level of intelligence of humans....so much time wasted vested in fighting trying to convince everyone around them that their 'god' is the right choice, when really all you are doing is convincing yourself that you have NOT been worshipping a made up deity, a deity simply put in place to brainwash you as a form societal control. Humans have spent millennia fulfilling the need of the human EGO and power roles, and thats what 'god worship' reflects.

Surely the concept of a being that requires "worship" reflect a deity that requires the fulfilling a "ego". That concept in itself means the gods you choose are in fact not benevolent, but simply a reflection of the human need to create a hierarchy of beings that control us that our egos fit into.

So we have had billions of humans over thousands of years, worshipping animal gods, Roman Pagan gods, Buddha, Mayan gods, the entire Egyptian Pantheon.....the list goes on and on and on...an yet, did these gods do anything? Did they end the world when their worship ended? There are no repercussions. And there wont be when The Abrahamic god is also just a ancient history lesson. Its all a waste of your time, you are just fulfilling a need of your ego and the need of your society to control you. People like the OP are brainwashed into worshipping good and evil premises to cover up responsibility for their own actions. The devil didn't make you do anything. You did it. Face yourself in the mirror, and stop absconding responsibility for what you do and kidding yourself that you are being judged by a being that requires your very goodness to continue existing.

You are the only one you have to answer to. Grow up.

Get out there and an be a big brother or big sister to a homeless kid and take them to a game, feed a hungry person, give your neighbour your coat if they need, and stop competing in the battle of the made up gods board game...there is no winner....

Originally posted by wyrdwolf77
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Not all Wiccans believe in that God.
It varies upon the person. And what say you about the rest of my post? Your god is not too much better.

So modern Wicca is merely a new religion? Then how can they say it is old and hold to little of the old religion?

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker


Baptism is ritualistic symbolization... By being baptized you are accepting that what he taught was truth... and symbolizes that person being "born of the spirit"... though again the same goes for baptism... It means nothing if you do not understand and live by what he taught. Many are baptized in the name of Jesus and God, but then turn to ways that he did not teach like greed and selfishness...

notice the next verse...

20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


So baptism is symbolizing that you accept what he taught... one must believe in what that name stands for or that symbolization means nothing... Those that were baptized by them in that day, also were taught what he taught... Sadly this isn't the case in many churches

Today baptism is just a "welcome to the club" thing...

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Originally posted by avatar22

When you have a plethora of religions that say "Do what thou wilt.." which means "It's your thing, do what you want to do.." that leaves it wide open for you to do just exactly what you want, even if it means you are permitted to lust and commit adultery, that permission given by that entity.

reply to post by WarminIndy

 

But that is not what is said at all.
"Do what thou will, lest ye harm none" is the phrase.
Meaning you are free to do anything so long as no one is hurt by your actions.
It is EXACTLY the same meaning as
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

"lest you do harm" can be a relative term, as you say mine can be. Wicca does endorse revenge and love casting spells. I said in my very first post that my brother practices Wicca and we have many conversations about the subject. It is not like I know nothing about it.

You know as well as I do that there are people in Wicca who take that concept and forget about the "lest you harm none" because that is human nature to do that.

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by wyrdwolf77
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Not all Wiccans believe in that God.
It varies upon the person. And what say you about the rest of my post? Your god is not too much better.

So modern Wicca is merely a new religion? Then how can they say it is old and hold to little of the old religion?

Christianity is a NEW religion - - BTW.

Earth/Pagan beliefs precede Christianity.

Just my opinion - - but Earth/Pagan core belief remains - - while over all it progresses/evolves with society and science and need.

Fundamental Christians seemed to want to hold on to outdated cultural and political contrives.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by wyrdwolf77
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Not all Wiccans believe in that God.
It varies upon the person. And what say you about the rest of my post? Your god is not too much better.

So modern Wicca is merely a new religion? Then how can they say it is old and hold to little of the old religion?

Christianity is a NEW religion - - BTW.

Earth/Pagan beliefs precede Christianity.

Just my opinion - - but Earth/Pagan core belief remains - - while over all it progresses/evolves with society and science and need.

Fundamental Christians seemed to want to hold on to outdated cultural and political contrives.

Annee, we know this. However, Wicca claims to be a religion older than Christianity. Wiccans, however, do not worship the same entities the early Wiccans followed. The religion has been repackaged under the guise of old, when it really incorporates nothing more than New Age nature philosophy.

I posted two sources to entities worship in early Celtic paganism, which two different Wiccans responed that they don't worship today. That means they either changed the religion or it is a new religion with an old name tacked on to it. If they changed the religion, then it is not original. If it is a new religion, then they need not say it is ancient.

The ancient Celtic religion, which is the parent of modern Wicca, did have not only the concept of good and evil entities, they worshiped those entities.

WarminIndy

He is called Iblis in Islam, and they worship him in a cave. They are called Black Light Satanism who worship Iblis in a cave. Iblis is another name for Lucifer. So even in Arabic, they understand the difference and this can't be passed off onto Christian invention.

Islam begins more than 500 years later than Christianity. It includes other Christian elements like Jesus, his mother Mary, and John the Baptist. Why not the Christian Satan or Devil, too?

If you have a source for any observant Muslims worshipping Satan, Shaytan or Iblis, whether or not in a cave, then many of us would be interested in seeing what you've got.

Except that all the books of the Old Testament came before Christianity and if you read the Book of Job, which is considered the oldest book, Satan is mentioned there.

That's the Hebrew Satan. He's an angel, a loyal servant of God, and the very model of a good first officer.

The character of a willing supernatural absolute opponent of God was invented by Christians. Like all inventors, they used bits and pieces of existing materials to fashion their novelty. In this case, Christians took the Hebrew angel's name, which is a common word, meaning "contrary," "accuser," "opponent" etc., and his order of being, angel (he probably became a jinn in Islam, since Islam's angels don't have free will).

The rest they made up. First, as a metaphor for aspects of life in a pagan Roman Empire, and later as established Christians re-reading those metaphors as something else.

I suppose you think Satan appears in Genesis 3 as well. Since we can still read the Hebrew story, we can see for ourselves the Christian invention in that case.

We know that in all ancient religions, all had the concept of a singular evil entity that opposed the Great Spirit (not only called that by Native Americans, but other ancient religions as well).

Judaism didn't, as already discussed. Buddhism doesn't have a great spirit, so that puts that one to rest, but Mara wouldn't be the devil anyway. The Indo-European gods aren't good, so while they have opponents, typically giants of one kind or another, the giants aren't evil. Indeed, Greco-Roman Prometheus is a non-god giant, and from a human perspective, absurdly good. Zeus, in contrast, is a ... well, less good entity.

So in the interest of space, ancient Wiccans did believe in an evil entity.

There were no ancient Wiccans. The religion we know is an eclectic Twentieth Century revival, even the varieties of practice that aren't called "eclectic." There weren't any Medieval Wiccans, either. The women who burned were generally Christians.

Of course, for some Christians, anything worshipped by a non-Christian, or even by a Christian unlike themselves, would be an "evil entity." But assuming you meant something with third-party interest, then Wiccans would have plenty of ancient models to revive which lacked a dedicated evil being.
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reply to post by WarminIndy

He did not seek to raise Lazarus for the purpose of divination, it was not accomplished through rites or rituals. He spoke life into Lazarus because Jesus IS the resurrection and the life, both naturally and spiritually.

Gee whiz, WarminIndy! I didn't realize I was in the company of Time Travelers.
You say that like you were there, listening while all of this happened. The truth is, dear dear WarminIndy, you do not know exactly what happened there, do you? Why do you religious types always do this? You either know what was said, word for word, over 2000 years ago, or, you know the mind of God so well that you are his new spokesman/spokeswoman. Do you see how this makes you look? So, which is, do you know this because you were there, or were you just making it up as you went along?

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

He did not seek to raise Lazarus for the purpose of divination, it was not accomplished through rites or rituals. He spoke life into Lazarus because Jesus IS the resurrection and the life, both naturally and spiritually.

Gee whiz, WarminIndy! I didn't realize I was in the company of Time Travelers.
You say that like you were there, listening while all of this happened. The truth is, dear dear WarminIndy, you do not know exactly what happened there, do you? Why do you religious types always do this? You either know what was said, word for word, over 2000 years ago, or, you know the mind of God so well that you are his new spokesman/spokeswoman. Do you see how this makes you look? So, which is, do you know this because you were there, or were you just making it up as you went along?

Does that mean we no longer have to listen to "Do unto others" because we were not there? You should stop the cherry picking you accuse us of.

reply to post by Akragon

I don't see what your point is? And i don't know why Jesus didn't write anything... Are you trying to prove he didn't actually exist? Because even if that is true, whoever wrote the lessons that said non-existant person taught remain true... even to this day

Well, Akragon, you posted a rather long list of writers that you claim wrote about Jesus. All I did was post a list of historians who did not. Things like that make me wonder. Some unknown person says a thing, and that makes it true, but then a historian of the same period says different, or says nothing, and that doesn't count?

And Truth, my friend, is not to be found in the Bibles. Case in point:

"If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it."
(John 14)

I once had not one, but a group of Christians, angry at me because they could not defeat me with their rhetoric, when i told them there was no Hell, that it was all made up, they all knelt down and prayed to Jesus that I would be shown the truth about Hell, right then and now.

My Mother, bless her heart, prayed for years that I change my mind and become a minister.

"Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst." (Matthew 18:19-20 KJV)

My family and I all agree that God has a wife, and lover, the Goddess and Queen of Heaven. We are in full agreement on this, so it must be true, right?
A lot of Christians ignore what Jesus actually says in the Bible. They also tend to add things to the actual words to make them say something else. If you honestly and truthfully read these quotes, without adding to them, it is very easy to see that Jesus is not saying that God will think about your prayers. He says God will grant all your prayers. Clearly, God doesn’t grant all prayers and this proves that Jesus was a habitual liar.

This is from a source from Wiccan-pagans themselves...
paganwiccan.about.com...

If the religion is merely nature based, then why all these gods and goddesses?

Three pictures of worshiped deities within Celtic paganism, the parent of modern Wicca.




According to this site, you apparently can worship Satan, it is not off limits. So by default, Wicca can be Satan worship. This from their site about Hel, a Norse goddess, also part of the pantheon of paganism..

She is a daughter of Loki, the trickster, and Angrboda. It is believed that her name is the source of the English word "hell," because of her connection to the underworld. Hel appears in the Poetic Edda and Prose Edda, and to sentence someone to "go to Hel" means to wish them death. Following the death of Baldur, the goddess Frigga sends Hermóðr to offer Hel ransom.

But according to the author of this site, someone who is Wiccan can worship any deity they wish and if they worship Satan, then it is not off-limits for them to do so.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Akragon

 

I once had not one, but a group of Christians, angry at me because they could not defeat me with their rhetoric, when i told them there was no Hell, that it was all made up, they all knelt down and prayed to Jesus that I would be shown the truth about Hell, right then and now.

The word Hell in English derives its origin from Norse mythology.

Hel-She is a daughter of Loki, the trickster, and Angrboda. It is believed that her name is the source of the English word "hell," because of her connection to the underworld. Hel appears in the Poetic Edda and Prose Edda, and to sentence someone to "go to Hel" means to wish them death.

reply to post by WarminIndy

Wiccans, however, do not worship the same entities the early Wiccans followed.

There you go again with those statements of fact that are not true! The truth is, you do not know who or what I myself worship, and you do not know anything about Wicca save what your brother told you. Every Wiccan thinks different from other Wiccans. My son and I are both Wiccans, he follows one tradition, I follow another. My wife follows yet another.

The religion has been repackaged under the guise of old, when it really incorporates nothing more than New Age nature philosophy.

Kinda like how the Christian religion is repackaged Catholic and Pagan practices, and even different from the laws laid out by the Biblical God of Abraham? How old are you? Only the young throw that "New Age" terminology around.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Wiccans, however, do not worship the same entities the early Wiccans followed.

There you go again with those statements of fact that are not true! The truth is, you do not know who or what I myself worship, and you do not know anything about Wicca save what your brother told you. Every Wiccan thinks different from other Wiccans. My son and I are both Wiccans, he follows one tradition, I follow another. My wife follows yet another.

The religion has been repackaged under the guise of old, when it really incorporates nothing more than New Age nature philosophy.

Kinda like how the Christian religion is repackaged Catholic and Pagan practices, and even different from the laws laid out by the Biblical God of Abraham? How old are you? Only the young throw that "New Age" terminology around.

I just posted a source from a Wiccan expert. That expert says that a Wiccan or a Pagan can choose to worship whatever god or goddess or deity they wish. If a Wiccan chooses to worship Satan as the Christian defines him, then they by default are a Satan worshiper. Is that not correct?

I was not applying any other deity in this conversation with you, I am asking simply, according to that expert on Wicca, if a Wiccan can choose to worship Satan, as the Christian definition of him is, then that Wiccan is a Satan worshiper.

I don't really want to know who you serve, that is not my business to know that. But if within your own definition of Wicca, you can worship whomever you want, and if you want to worship any evil deity, then you are allowed to do so. Is that not correct?

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reply to post by autowrench


You might notice that Jesus answered any question that anyone asked him... even hard questions like what will happen at the end of the world...

I believe that is what he meant when he said "ask anything in my name"

IF God answered everyones prayers we would have all won the lottery by now... And besides that, Its said that God knows what you need before you ask...

5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.


So believe me when i tell you Jesus did not lie... as far as i've found.

Originally posted by Akragon
You might notice that Jesus answered any question that anyone asked him... even hard questions like what will happen at the end of the world...

What Jesus?

There is not one shred of actual fact/evidence that "mythical biblical Jesus" ever existed.

reply to post by autowrench


Your right, my bad. Sorry!

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Akragon
You might notice that Jesus answered any question that anyone asked him... even hard questions like what will happen at the end of the world...

What Jesus?

There is not one shred of actual fact/evidence that "mythical biblical Jesus" ever existed.

Isn't there some roman records though? Like execution sentences or somthing? Idr...

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Akragon
You might notice that Jesus answered any question that anyone asked him... even hard questions like what will happen at the end of the world...

What Jesus?

There is not one shred of actual fact/evidence that "mythical biblical Jesus" ever existed.

Do you believe that really matters?

Regardless of he existed, who ever it was that the authors wrote about knew what he was talking about