OP/ED: Toronto to Ban Pits... Could the ban be Spreading?!

PublicGadfly.. I'm with ya. There are some degenerates living down the street from me (insert your stereotype of a junk pickup and gun rack here) that have a pit and these idiots let the dog run lose. My wife knows if that thing ever comes in my yard it will go to the big dog house in the sky. Which reminds me... I'm turning that animal in to animal control tomorrow.

I have to say again, it is definitely the owner, and NOT the breed.
Any dog can be trained to be vicious.

www.akc.org...

I was convinced that pit-bulls were great dogs, and the "bad" ones were only because of problem owners or being trained to be agressive. Notice I use the word *was*. I had the unfortunate adventure of petting a nice, well bred, well cared for pit one day who never ever bit anyone and was a "good dog."



The 8 stiches I also had on the inside of my mouth was where most of the damage occured when the dog ripped my lower lip away from my jaw. The bottom of the two wounds shown above went clear through and into my gums, and knocked a tooth crooked. Perhaps that was from the force like being hit with a brick in the teeth. I was VERY lucky.

Needless to say, I won't be petting any more pit-bulls, and I'm not quite so friendly with anyone's dog anymore. Moral of the story: It wouldn't have happened if I wasn't petting it. Owners should be procecuted if their dog is loose and attacks someone, but to outright ban an animal is a bit too much. If we banned everything dangerous there would be no cars, no snack food, no pencils (hey you can stab your eye out!), no children (I've been bitten by a 3 yr old, too), no matches, etc. Personal responsibility needs to take on more of a role in peoples' lives these days.


[edit on 31-8-2004 by RedBalloon]

Originally posted by LL1
I have to say again, it is definitely the owner, and NOT the breed.
Any dog can be trained to be vicious.

www.akc.org...

AND I'm agreeing with you, it's just the average person that wants a Pit wants a weapon. It's not your average dog lover.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by LadyV
So, they ban the Pit, so the low lifes start using Dobbies, so they ban them, then they start using Rotts, so they ban them, then they start using the akita, so they ban them............and so on and so on and so on...

OK, would you be in favor of charging the owners of these errant dogs with the same regard as those that commit gun crimes? Both can be lethal weapons.

Definitely!!! These dogs are NOT mean.....again, it is the irresponsibility of their owners! These dogs are made mean. We had a "scum" arrested a few month back in out parking lot at work (Petsmart) He had a 10 week old little pit puppy, dropping it from cheat height and laughing "to make it mean". These trash people, will not feed a dog regularly, they then take newborn kitten, and shake them at the dogs, like a ply toy...till the dog grabs it and play with it,,,,it them after time gets the taste for blood...even a pit made mean to fight, isn't human aggressive, in fact when they fight pit bulls those dogs have to like humans, the referee has to be right by the dogs, if a pit would attack the referee, the dog would be killed right then and there.. They put these dog on work out machines to build them up, they swim them, run them....when a dog losses a fight it will lay an suffer to death because to find a "real" vet is difficult as it is illegal except in Oklahoma...these poor animals are found in dumpsters, woods...it's absolutely despicable!

So are the "its the owners not the dogs" supporters just going to ignore redbaloons excellent post, in which he provides personal evidence that such an excuse is not true?

Or is there another excuse like "bad genes" that can be used for this reason.

RedBalloon

I had 12 stitches in my face from a miniature schnauzer! ANY dog has the potential to bite. I have been grooming for 18 years, Vet Teched for 5 years prior to that, I have never been bitten by a large breed dog, but I have had tons of them from smaller breeds and cats! I am so sorry this happened to you, but it doesn't prove Pits are mean.

Being vicious is the nature of the animal. You may get lucky and avoid it. Would you have a gator running lose as your pet? No. Of couse not. No matter how well you train it you can't control instinct. So profile the average owner of a Pit Bull. What kind of person owns one? Are these people generally of average or above average intelligence? Are they generally responsible? You will probably answer no to both. So do you want someone like that owning a dangerous animal? Heck no. Why? Becuase the moron will probably let it run lose or put it in his back yard with a busted fence so the dog can easily get out because the guy isn't smart enough to figure it out. If you saw my neighborhood you'd understand my feelings on this.

They are trained to fight and kill. Any breed can be trained in the same manner.
They mistreat the dogs terribly!

www.thejournalnews.com...

LadyV is the thread about the man who had his genitals ripped out by a pitball, just another example of pit bull persecution as well?

How many excuses do you have to make for a dog that is known world wide for its unprovoked attacks on people and other animals?

What about the lions and tigers! Oh my!

Sure, they can be tamed, but not everyone is Siegfried and Roy. Wow, as soon as typed that I remembered the accident. Didn't mean to make a joke of it, that way.

Cmon Lady. You can't be serious. Do you want to play the odds? Quiz. You have a 5 year old. You gonna let your 5 year old run around in a yard with a Pit or with a Minerature? The answer is an absolue no brainer.

Originally posted by LadyV
RedBalloon

I had 12 stitches in my face from a miniature schnauzer! ANY dog has the potential to bite. I have been grooming for 18 years, Vet Teched for 5 years prior to that, I have never been bitten by a large breed dog, but I have had tons of them from smaller breeds and cats! I am so sorry this happened to you, but it doesn't prove Pits are mean.

I didn't blame it on mean pits - I said I wouldn't be so quick to pet ANY dog. Animals are unpredictable, and any of them can turn on you in a second. Smaller dogs have smaller jaws and less power. Even though they can still do damage, it's a lot easier to be ripped to shreds by something like a pit bull than a poodle. It was the force more than the bite that got me.

As for "good genes" vs "bad genes" these animals have a breeding history, and perhaps some have more aggressive tendencies by nature than others, perhaps not. I just know I'll keep my distance from pit bulls for a while

I'm still for personal responsibility though. Nail the owner if they did something irresponsible, but banning a dog won't solve the problem. We'll just find another breed to go after.

[edit on 31-8-2004 by RedBalloon]

Better yet. Take two 5 year olds. Put one in a fenced in back yard with 3 Pits and one in a fenced in back yard with 3 Collies. Come back an hour later and see which kid is still alive. I might sound like I'm being mean but no responsible parent would ever leave his/her kid unattended with a Pit because its not safe. And 3 of them forget it. You leave a 5 year old unattended with 3 of them and you are just begging to attend your kids funeral.

Dog owners, pitbulls, and pitbull victims all suffer from the misconceptions about this breed and dogs in general. People don't understand that dogs can be safe for the infants in their families to climb on, pull their ears, pull their tail, play with, but a full-grown person who's a stranger to that dog can be attacked seemingly at random.

All breeds develop tolerance and acceptance of certain social groups and hold distrust of outsiders. The degrees to which a dog may act on that distrust is NOT entirely based on the way that dog was raised. Just because a fighting dog won't hurt a family member or a friend does nothing to guarantee it's safe around a stranger at any time.

People who love their fighting dogs and say that all dog attacks come from bad owners are spreading dangerous myths.

[edit on 31-8-2004 by taibunsuu]

Originally posted by intrepid


AND I'm agreeing with you, it's just the average person that wants a Pit wants a weapon. It's not your average dog lover.

Not entirely...do a search on the net...there are many, many people trying to save this breed and many, many "regular" people who share their lives with the them. They are used rescue animal (9/11) therapy dogs, police dogs, in agility and training...

Pit Bulls speak - we are good dogs!

Most people, who are unfamiliar with the American Pit Bull Terrier, falsely believe that they are dangerous dogs. Unfortunately, Pit Bulls have a bad reputation because of some mean people who have abused their dogs and trained them to be aggressive. Pit Bulls are actually very stable, intelligent, and highly trainable. They are strong athletic dogs, and they require a guardian who is responsible and will give them plenty of exercise and training. They are very loving and loyal and make excellent animal companions.

Little-known facts about Pit Bulls:

Pit Bulls serve as therapy/service dogs. The Chako Rescue Association has Pit Bull therapy dogs in Texas, Utah and California. Helen Keller even had a Pit Bull as her canine companion and helper. Cheyenne and Dakota are a team of hard-working Search-and-Rescue Pit Bulls in Sacramento, California. They play an important role in their community by locating missing people in conjunction with the local Sheriff. In their off-duty hours, they do charity work as therapy dogs.

Petey, the faithful dog on the TV show, The Little Rascals, was a Pit Bull. He spent countless hours with children day after day and never hurt anyone. He was one of the most intelligent Hollywood dogs of all time.

There are quite a few celebrities who have Pit Bulls as members of their family including: Rosie Perez, The Crocodile Hunter, Judd Nelson, Usher, Alicia Silverstone, Cassandra Creech, Sinbad, John Stuart, Amy Jo Johnson, Linda Blair, Vin Diesel, and Bernadette Peters.

Pit Bulls are heroes! America's first war dog was a Pit Bull named Stubby. He earned several medals during World War I and was honored at the White House. The Ken-L-Ration dog hero of 1993 was a Pit Bull named Weela. She saved 30 people, 29 dogs, 13 horses and a cat during a flood in Southern California. A Pit Bull named Bogart saved a four-year-old child from drowning in a swimming pool in Florida. Dixie, the Pit Bull, was inducted into the Georgia Animal Hall of Fame after she saved some children from a Cottonmouth snake.

Pit Bulls are one of the most stable people-friendly dogs in existence. The National Canine Temperament Testing Association tested 122 breeds, and Pit Bulls placed the 4th highest with a 95% passing rate!

taibunsuu that unfortunately is very incorrect. There have been far too many reports of Pits mauling family members. Mainly little kids and infants. And the genetic makeup of the dog is a problem. They are muscular and have a bite habit that most dogs dont and thats a powerful bite without a release. Once you get attacked it is difficult to break free. That problem as far as I know doesn't exist with any other dog. Just the Pit.

A simple seach on google for "pitbull attack" brings up 100's or examples to prove the "nurture not nature" argument to be false...

www.google.com...

LadyV the "good" pits you mention can be numerically beaten in just a month of google reports of people being attacked by the breed. Only the very blind cannot accept the truth...

How about this one...

www.wwaytv3.com...
(August 3, 2004) - Two Wilmington police officers opened fire yesterday afternoon, killing a pit bull after the dog attacked a man off Wrightsville Avenue.

A real estate agent checking on a house called police saying he had been attacked by a dog. When police got there, they found the man on the ground bleeding badly, and the dog was still in the area.

Officers say the dog was acting weird. The officer who shot the dog first was within two feet of the dog when it started coming towards him. They shot it a total of four times with their shotguns, one of the officers said he thought the dog was coming back to attack the man again.

"My understanding, from people that saw him, said his right forearm, right hand, and right side were pretty cut up and bleeding," said Tom Eason with the Wilmington police department.

Rowe suffered bites to his arm and hand. He'll also have to go through a series of shots in case the dog had rabies. Police charged the dog's owner he'll face a five hundred dollar fine.

[edit on 31-8-2004 by Netchicken]

A friend of a friend breeds pitbulls and I've met three of the dogs. They are my 'shadows' when I'm around. These dogs are bright, strong, and obedient. I just love 'em to death.

I have a mixed pitbull that I rescued. His owners chained him to a tree and neglected him. Shortly after gaining possession of "Rombo" the vet told me he had heartworms. He fully recovered after treatment and has been a great addition to the family.

A former co-worker had a toy poodle, Tattoo, that attacked her 8 month old daughter out of jealousy. The baby needed several stitches on her head.

All animals are potentially dangerous. Hell, we're all potentially dangerous.

Originally posted by LadyV
Pit Bulls are one of the most stable people-friendly dogs in existence. The National Canine Temperament Testing Association tested 122 breeds, and Pit Bulls placed the 4th highest with a 95% passing rate!

As with all breeds you will get good and bad, however there is also predispostion of the breeds. For example, I'm sure you will find a smart Irish Setter out there but by and large a kind, but dumb dog.

What I quoted above I don't believe at all.