Masonic Lodges and the issues surrounding transgender people/members

reply to post by ProgressiveFreemasonryUSA


For the record we do not consider you a Freemason. In fact even if I wanted to, sitting a lodge with you would get me expelled. You are irregular.

reply to post by JoshNorton


If a tree sprouts a new limb, is it any less a part of the tree than the older limbs?
The fact that this new limb is smaller and more flexible makes it able to survive strong winds better than the older branches.

reply to post by Rockpuck

You are irregular.

Shame on you, bully!

Am I less human because my spine contains donated vertebrae?
For your information, I have more spine than most "regular" people and walk with better posture.

Not everyone is as perfect as you are.

For the record, you aren't even man enough or have the spine to apologize for your brash, judgemental attitude either.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by JoshNorton

 

If a tree sprouts a new limb, is it any less a part of the tree than the older limbs?

There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of irregular grand lodges operating in the United States. Some might be doing good work. Others might be scams trying to cash in on members' dues.

The solution isn't to start your own club that has no power. The solution is to join the larger, older institution and change it from within.

reply to post by Afterthought


Wtf are you going on about?

reply to post by JoshNorton

has no power

What exactly makes you believe that this lodge has no power? Please explain.

I think you see with your own eyes and use your own common sense to know that changing Freemasonry from within would be nearly impossible.

Originally posted by Afterthought
I think you see with your own eyes and use your own common sense to know that changing Freemasonry from within would be nearly impossible.

There are some of us who have joined Freemasonry for a different reason. Some of us want to change Freemasonry back to what it was before the Morgan Affair, before the philanthropic-based ideals, and before we cared more about the food after the degree rather than the initiation of the candidate. I and others from multiple lodges around the United States and the world are trying to help bring back Masonry to its roots. Many of us who have been joining the past years came to Masonry for the more esoteric/spiritual teachings that Masonry provides. We came to harness the power of the individual and assist them on their spiritual path. Masonry is not about the food or the stated meetings. It's about the individual and how we can assist them in becoming a better person. Some lodges are adopting these ideals and looking more at the lodge, rather than the community as important.

reply to post by bushidomason


What you're speaking about is fine and admirable. I just don't understand why it can't become more progressive, too. People are different and should be able to achieve enlightenment and status within a lodge where they feel comfortable and accepted.

I've never felt the need to belong to a group, but for those who do and would like to seek out the teachings that every other man wishes to obtain though Masonry, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to form a lodge where this is available to them.

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by bushidomason

 

What you're speaking about is fine and admirable. I just don't understand why it can't become more progressive, too. People are different and should be able to achieve enlightenment and status within a lodge where they feel comfortable and accepted.

I've never felt the need to belong to a group, but for those who do and would like to seek out the teachings that every other man wishes to obtain though Masonry, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to form a lodge where this is available to them.

That is fine, and I do believe that anyone (male or female) has the right to knowledge and spiritual enlightenment. I support lodges who carry-out these customs, i.e. the Grand Orient of France. I do not accept lodges that entertain the notion of defrauding its members and look for ways to harm their members physically, without meaning. Some brothers may not agree with me, but certain parts of the degrees we do should be a little more "physical". You should remember your promises and oaths that you made. The so-called "wussification" of Freemasonry has become a little disgusting lately. Obviously, the goal is not to harm the person, but to teach them an important lesson when it comes to secrecy within our Craft.

The teachings that we have in Freemasonry are not really secret. it's a vehicle in which we may teach it, but it's not like posses the truth that no one else will ever attain. Freemasonry is a tool and not a means to an end. I hope that everyone in the world seeks enlightenment and that everyone can answer the questions of life that are so intriguing,

reply to post by bushidomason


I agree with everything you stated except for the physical harming of members. Hazing is a disgusting practice and serves no purpose other than to make the abuser(s) feel more powerful. Nobody should ever put their hands on someone in a violent manner or use an instrument to cause pain. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Edit to Add: I also view the use humiliation in this category, too. Being accepted shouldn't include physical or mental pain.

Originally posted by Afterthought

I agree with everything you stated except for the physical harming of members. Hazing is a disgusting practice and serves no purpose other than to make the abuser(s) feel more powerful. Nobody should ever put their hands on someone in a violent manner or use an instrument to cause pain. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Edit to Add: I also view the use humiliation in this category, too. Being accepted shouldn't include physical or mental pain.

edit on 1-12-2011 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)

I agree with all of this. However, bushido spoke of "physical" requirements, not hazing or humiliation. Hazing is completely foreign to the high spiritual ideals of Freemasonry.

Originally posted by Afterthought
What exactly makes you believe that this lodge has no power? Please explain.

Because nothing it does will have any effect on mainstream Freemasonry.

Freemasonry is, at its heart, wholly democratic. If his lodge isn't part of the larger system, it has no vote, and thus, no voice in the grand scheme of things.

There IS progressive change happening in mainstream Freemasonry, as Bushido refers to. There are younger, open-minded guys who are joining, and they have a vote.

I live in the south, and yeah, there are still a lot of small-minded rednecks in the system. It's going to be slow going growing to the point where the progressive voice gains majority, but I can already see it happening... The guy who's the highest power in Masonry in my state just this year wanted to issue an edict forbidding gays from being Masons. He got shot down by just about everyone on his advisory council because such an action would be divisive and prejudiced. I take it as a sign of positive change that sanity prevaled...

Just some info to help people make informed decisions..
The new biological findings the past two years have confirmed that people who are transsexual, transgendered, or gender identifying non-specific are so because of biological development from birth. It can also be caused by endometrial cancers or problems with the ovaries due to androgen exposure or lack of. press.endocrine.org...
It has been removed from the DSM-V and is no longer considered a mental health disorder, however the problems they face in a non-accepting society does lead them to have mental health problems such as PTSD from trauma due to hate crimes, depression from lack of understanding or acceptance from family and society, and 42% will attempt or commit suicide.
There are 700,000 Transgender people in the USA who are known and have the language to self identify the difference. There are another estimated 200,000 who are believed to be unaccounted for due to fear of coming out. Just under 3,000 transgender people are murdered every year, which would partially account for their low numbers.
Transgender people do not want to be transgender. You cannot choose your gender. That being said, this can't be understood until gender itself is also understood. There are not only two genders. Gender is a spectrum across the board in all of nature from animals to people to ocean life to the smallest organism. There are roughly 2,000,000 unisex (a person who is born with both anatomical sex organs or both partial anatomical sex organs) in the United States.
Gender happens separately in the brain and in the body during development. Keep in mind, all of this data comes from new studies on the topic (post 2014 or when many of these tests studied were completed) so if your information is older than that, than like all outdated medical text, it will no longer be applicable to today's science. This is the education they are teaching in medical school as of the start of 2016. There are new educational YouTube videos available for medical professionals (and others) to view so that they may treat these patients adequately and humanely.
Invetro, the baby is exposed to a series of hormones, typically estrogen, testosterone, and androgens. Some affect the body and create anatomical visible changes such as sex organs or as I mentioned before a spectrum of partial changes may take place. Nature is not perfect. There is a blueprint in nature but it is not strict. That blueprint evolves and changes and as it attempts this, variants can take place. It does with numbers of appendages, disadvantages or advantages for intelligence and it does so in every other aspect of development in all of nature so it does in this area as well. This makes sense to me. Other changes take place when hormones "wash" the brain of the baby. If this doesn't happen or if this happens inadequately, what you can end up with is the possibility that the brain gender may not match up with the physical gender of the body. In the case of female to male transgender individuals, autopsies were performed and it was found that an exposure of androgens invetro was present. This is not present in gay men (please refer to the reference).
Transgender people carry the same spectrum of sexual preferences.A transgender female to male who is attracted to women is considered straight and one who's attracted to only men is considered gay.
Children as young as two and three years old, know which gender they identify with once gender differences are explained to them. If they are transgender, it is no different for many of them. People who identify later in life, will say they knew in early childhood that they were but did not have the language or understanding to express the difference. They were not told that there are more than two genders and so this is often the case for many non-binary transgender (people who's brain genders are in the middle of the gender spectrum) typically learn to identify later and due to our very binary oriented culture, this makes sense.
Transgender is not a new phenomenon. Ancient Native Americans (you can Google old black and white pictures of this if you are interested) understood that there were people "in between" both sexual preference and gender identity and even though we know today that gender and sexuality are unrelated and do not determine one another, they were lumped together into one group known as "two-spirited" people. People who carried parts of both male and female energies. They were considered peace keepers and bridges between the two sexes and were often revered as medicine men or tribal leaders. The concept came from their sacred pipe that they used to send their prayers to Creator. Creation takes both the male and female energies of life for life to happen. The pipe has a female end (the bowl) and a male end (the stem), but there is also the place where the two come together and it is believed that creator is both male and female and so this correlation led to these people being revered in their societies, particularly by tribes in the north such as the Wabanaki.
Tribal ceremonies and all of life for Native people was based on gender roles. So how did they deal with this? They believed each man or woman knows themselves the best and knows which roles they have the best skills for or have a need to pursue. There was a general respect that each person has autonomy over their own sense of self and were best at communicating that to the external world.
I am not in a position to make suggestions involving the how Mason's hold their ceremonies or accept their members. Nor do I have any interest to want to. I am only offering information by way of helping out. I actually stumbled onto this page by accident in the middle of my research paper for college in my gender studies class. So take it or leave it as you see fit.
If I WERE going to make suggestions however, I would simply listen to how others view themselves.If a unisex person came to me and said,"I have both parts but I feel I am a man." I don't see how I could disbelieve him. Or the same for a woman. If a transgender person said "I have a man's body, but a woman's mind" it is the mind that gives us our thoughts and motivates the body. The mind is the driver for the rest. The body has no opinion of itself, so I would trust that this person feels as they say they do. If they identified as female in a male lodge, I would most likely ask them to join the female lodge. Keep in mind, a transgender person does not live in secret to "trick people". That would be a lot of wasted energy. They do so because they are murderd more often than any other minority on the planet. Human beings are social creatures who NEED society. Families may not be accepting so they may turn other places for that society. A group like a lodge might be a logical choice. If a person came to me and said, "I have a female body and a male brain" I would say their place is in the male lodge. However there might be a need to open a transgender lodge. There must be roles in life that these people can fill, and talents they can bring to the table. They are human beings with all the same hopes, dreams, fears, beliefs etc.
That's just my opinion though. Like I said, I am not in a position to give that kind of advice. I'm just processing the problem outloud and sharing. I respect whatever it is you all decide to do, either way.

My apologies for the typos. I am up very late studying. It is 1am here. I am Eatern a Time, I am not sure why the website clock is showing 11.

Oh and I am not here to start a debate or argue. Just info sharing. I won't be returning to this page. Im not judging or disagreeing with anyone with the intent of starting anything. I haven't even read more than a couple if comments here and there trying to figure out what this was. I don't want to step on anyone's toes or go against the purpose of your organizations. I'm just trying to be helpful. This also took longer than expected and time is valuable to me. Take care and good luck. a reply to: SageAriya

Forgot a couple of things. They don't just change the body. They take a male mind and increase the maleness by measuring the testosterone already present and increasing those levels to normal men's levels. The increased presence of testosterone does not only change the body. The sex drive goes up, they experience all the same things boys going through puberty experience. At the end, their minds are purely male. Same goes for those who are male to female, only with estrogen. Those who are in the middle, will often seek a partial change to try and get their bodies to match their gender. A lot of people disagree with me about the need for a third bathroom for gender non-specific people, but I think it would help.
Dysphoria is not a synonym for transsexual or transgender. Dysphoria is just one if the mental health problems that can be associated with being transgender. Not all transgender people have dysphoria, especially after a successful post op. They no longer feel "trapped" in their bodies. So to speak. Dysphoria is experienced by anyone having trouble with their bodies, such as anorexia, bulimia, or after an amputation or some other body altering unwanted change. Dysphoria is what is discussed on the DSM-V for transgender people.
Lastly, if you watch videos about what these people go through in order to get these changes, you'll never look at it as a choice again. They literally strip the meat off of your arm or legs in order to create these changes. I sort of get the desperation. I also wouldn't do that to myself unless I was extremely desperate. These procedures often do not end well. They are taking huge risks. The technology for it is well known to be underdeveloped and risky. For gender non-specific people, the medical technology was developed only for complete binary changes. Not for partial changes, so they have no good options. No one would do this to themselves just based on wanting to appear as something they aren't.