Masonic Lodges and the issues surrounding transgender people/members, page 3

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reply posted on 1-12-2011 @ 06:25 PM by Rockpuck

reply to post by ProgressiveFreemasonryUSA

For the record we do not consider you a Freemason. In fact even if I wanted to, sitting a lodge with you would get me expelled. You are irregular.

reply posted on 1-12-2011 @ 06:25 PM by Afterthought

reply to post by JoshNorton

If a tree sprouts a new limb, is it any less a part of the tree than the older limbs?
The fact that this new limb is smaller and more flexible makes it able to survive strong winds better than the older branches.

reply posted on 1-12-2011 @ 06:28 PM by Afterthought

reply to post by Rockpuck

You are irregular.

Shame on you, bully!

Am I less human because my spine contains donated vertebrae?
For your information, I have more spine than most "regular" people and walk with better posture.

Not everyone is as perfect as you are.

For the record, you aren't even man enough or have the spine to apologize for your brash, judgemental attitude either.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 1-12-2011 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 1-12-2011 @ 06:34 PM by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by JoshNorton

If a tree sprouts a new limb, is it any less a part of the tree than the older limbs?

There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of irregular grand lodges operating in the United States. Some might be doing good work. Others might be scams trying to cash in on members' dues.

The solution isn't to start your own club that has no power. The solution is to join the larger, older institution and change it from within.

reply posted on 1-12-2011 @ 06:34 PM by Rockpuck

reply to post by Afterthought

Wtf are you going on about?

reply posted on 1-12-2011 @ 06:36 PM by Afterthought

reply to post by JoshNorton

has no power

What exactly makes you believe that this lodge has no power? Please explain.

I think you see with your own eyes and use your own common sense to know that changing Freemasonry from within would be nearly impossible.

reply posted on 1-12-2011 @ 06:46 PM by bushidomason

Originally posted by Afterthought
I think you see with your own eyes and use your own common sense to know that changing Freemasonry from within would be nearly impossible.

There are some of us who have joined Freemasonry for a different reason. Some of us want to change Freemasonry back to what it was before the Morgan Affair, before the philanthropic-based ideals, and before we cared more about the food after the degree rather than the initiation of the candidate. I and others from multiple lodges around the United States and the world are trying to help bring back Masonry to its roots. Many of us who have been joining the past years came to Masonry for the more esoteric/spiritual teachings that Masonry provides. We came to harness the power of the individual and assist them on their spiritual path. Masonry is not about the food or the stated meetings. It's about the individual and how we can assist them in becoming a better person. Some lodges are adopting these ideals and looking more at the lodge, rather than the community as important.

reply posted on 1-12-2011 @ 06:56 PM by Afterthought

reply to post by bushidomason

What you're speaking about is fine and admirable. I just don't understand why it can't become more progressive, too. People are different and should be able to achieve enlightenment and status within a lodge where they feel comfortable and accepted.

I've never felt the need to belong to a group, but for those who do and would like to seek out the teachings that every other man wishes to obtain though Masonry, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to form a lodge where this is available to them.

reply posted on 1-12-2011 @ 07:08 PM by bushidomason

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by bushidomason

What you're speaking about is fine and admirable. I just don't understand why it can't become more progressive, too. People are different and should be able to achieve enlightenment and status within a lodge where they feel comfortable and accepted.

I've never felt the need to belong to a group, but for those who do and would like to seek out the teachings that every other man wishes to obtain though Masonry, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to form a lodge where this is available to them.

That is fine, and I do believe that anyone (male or female) has the right to knowledge and spiritual enlightenment. I support lodges who carry-out these customs, i.e. the Grand Orient of France. I do not accept lodges that entertain the notion of defrauding its members and look for ways to harm their members physically, without meaning. Some brothers may not agree with me, but certain parts of the degrees we do should be a little more "physical". You should remember your promises and oaths that you made. The so-called "wussification" of Freemasonry has become a little disgusting lately. Obviously, the goal is not to harm the person, but to teach them an important lesson when it comes to secrecy within our Craft.

The teachings that we have in Freemasonry are not really secret. it's a vehicle in which we may teach it, but it's not like posses the truth that no one else will ever attain. Freemasonry is a tool and not a means to an end. I hope that everyone in the world seeks enlightenment and that everyone can answer the questions of life that are so intriguing,

reply posted on 1-12-2011 @ 07:13 PM by Afterthought

reply to post by bushidomason

I agree with everything you stated except for the physical harming of members. Hazing is a disgusting practice and serves no purpose other than to make the abuser(s) feel more powerful. Nobody should ever put their hands on someone in a violent manner or use an instrument to cause pain. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Edit to Add: I also view the use humiliation in this category, too. Being accepted shouldn't include physical or mental pain.

edit on 1-12-2011 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 2-12-2011 @ 08:55 AM by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Afterthought

I agree with everything you stated except for the physical harming of members. Hazing is a disgusting practice and serves no purpose other than to make the abuser(s) feel more powerful. Nobody should ever put their hands on someone in a violent manner or use an instrument to cause pain. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Edit to Add: I also view the use humiliation in this category, too. Being accepted shouldn't include physical or mental pain.
edit on 1-12-2011 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)

I agree with all of this. However, bushido spoke of "physical" requirements, not hazing or humiliation. Hazing is completely foreign to the high spiritual ideals of Freemasonry.

reply posted on 2-12-2011 @ 11:46 AM by JoshNorton