Zombie Physiology

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
In regards to your comment, I don't think intelligence has anything to do with a virus. A virus attaches to a normal cell, replicates and takes over more cells until there are none left or the host is dead. The entire purpose of a virus is to reproduce, so the zombie concept goes hand in hand with virus. Also, viruses are programmed to modify cells (they change programming to survive the perpetual war with immune systems, or can be artificially programmed in a lab). When I say that a virus kills its host before reanimation, I mean that the virus shuts down the immune system and completely takes over; technically the host doesn't really die as an organism, but certainly dies as a concious individual since their braincells become infected and overwritten with orders for the host to carry out the will of the virus.

Thanks for the little explanation. It makes more sense now I agree.

I've read about Solanum in the zombie survival guide.
I formulated my thought wrong. It would require an advanced virus with relatively, in comparison with other viruses, advanced aspects, and not an intelligent virus.

So it would either be bio engineered or naturally mutated but it certainly wouldn't be a daily development. I think it would be humans specifically bio engineering the virus for purposes or a human action triggering the natural mutation. I don't see how it would just mutate if there isn't a reason to. E.G. the excess use of antibiotics would be a reason to mutate and survive.

Originally posted by novuslibertas

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
In regards to your comment, I don't think intelligence has anything to do with a virus. A virus attaches to a normal cell, replicates and takes over more cells until there are none left or the host is dead. The entire purpose of a virus is to reproduce, so the zombie concept goes hand in hand with virus. Also, viruses are programmed to modify cells (they change programming to survive the perpetual war with immune systems, or can be artificially programmed in a lab). When I say that a virus kills its host before reanimation, I mean that the virus shuts down the immune system and completely takes over; technically the host doesn't really die as an organism, but certainly dies as a concious individual since their braincells become infected and overwritten with orders for the host to carry out the will of the virus.

Thanks for the little explanation. It makes more sense now I agree.

I've read about Solanum in the zombie survival guide.
I formulated my thought wrong. It would require an advanced virus with relatively, in comparison with other viruses, advanced aspects, and not an intelligent virus.

So it would either be bio engineered or naturally mutated but it certainly wouldn't be a daily development. I think it would be humans specifically bio engineering the virus for purposes or a human action triggering the natural mutation. I don't see how it would just mutate if there isn't a reason to. E.G. the excess use of antibiotics would be a reason to mutate and survive.

edit on 28/10/11 by novuslibertas because: (no reason given)

The potential is there for a perfect storm of the right virus with the 'wrong' variables.
It would have to be a very pertinent virus of course. Maluable, adept to all conditions. Engineered to be deadly.
The mutation rate would depend on the environment in which it escapes into, and how many people get infected in x amount of time. With no defense mechanisms against it, i'd imagine it would find easier ways to infect our immune systems in more rapid amounts of time.

reply to post by novuslibertas


Indeed.

I'm not an expert on biology or genetics, but viruses are very interesting in their own right. Consider all of the different viruses out there with different programming... did they all stem from one single viral strain a long time ago, with the variations caused by how the base virus spread and mutated through different hosts? Or can a brand new virus just spring up on its own?

If we want to get realistic about zombies, I believe that the type that I mentioned can be theoretically created by developing an artificially programmed virus. Viruses already are manipulated in labs to carry out specific functions, sometimes beneficial to us. Even bacteria has been artificially created to do things such as eating crude oil. I don't think that bacteria would be suitable for my type of zombie though, since bacteria is a cellular attack on the body as opposed to cellular hijacking by a virus.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
reply to post by novuslibertas

 

did they all stem from one single viral strain a long time ago, with the variations caused by how the base virus spread and mutated through different hosts? Or can a brand new virus just spring up on its own?

If we want to get realistic about zombies, I believe that the type that I mentioned can be theoretically created by developing an artificially programmed virus. Viruses already are manipulated in labs to carry out specific functions, sometimes beneficial to us. Even bacteria has been artificially created to do things such as eating crude oil. I don't think that bacteria would be suitable for my type of zombie though, since bacteria is a cellular attack on the body as opposed to cellular hijacking by a virus.

from wiki: virus

5,000 viruses have been described in detail, although there are millions of different types.
Viruses are found in almost every ecosystem on Earth and are the most abundant type of biological entity
The origins of viruses in the evolutionary history of life are unclear: some may have evolved from plasmids – pieces of DNA that can move between cells – while others may have evolved from bacteria.

The zombie virus would most likely be a merging of existing viruses

reply to post by Cosmic911


Yes - zombie evolution does seem to be happening, but also we see the trend of herding and grouping in the latest genres. Is there a higher function, and does it lead to select neural shutdown by some virus or parastie, that also manages the function via some for of secretion to keep motor skills running albeit at a raw level? Hmmm - we must wonder.

reply to post by topherman420


Yes, the organism you refer to is more like "the Thing" now in its third version in hollywood. I think there is no creativity left there.

But as noted within the thread the viral/parasitic route is the best avenue to explore from an scientific (if you can call this thought pattern scientific) approach. However, in the living dead series it is spawned by a chemical reagent, that kills then reanimates. One could only surmise rapid genetic mutation at that point. Hmmm...

Thanks for the input.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Got that, also huge fan as well, but then is the victim technically dead, or are we missing something from Zombie physiology as a whole. In Resident evil the idea was a super soldier and super healing, so if the agent is a recombinat DNA virus, would this not be a zombie but then a new species through DNA minipulation, and thus killing them should not require a head shot. If it is uncontrolled restorative properties, that creates such a creature, then we are talking about killing the ego and keeping the ID. Hmmm... more to ponder.

reply to post by novuslibertas


Not so on virii, they seek to replicate, and the biologic community is still out if a virus qualifies as a living thing. It replicates, but has no sentience, and other items that traditional biology would use to classify a living structure. It is basically a fragment of DNA or RNA wrapped in a protein shell. However, we cannot discount singular population sampling when it comes to sentience, maybe en masse they think at some level?

reply to post by yourmaker


If it ever came to pass you could put good money on that mankind did it to themselves. Nice posts and reposts, Thanks.

I just watched the History channel documentary called:
Zombies:A living history.
It was somewhat similar to Ancient Aliens' latest episode in its first part, but after a while it goes into great detail on the biological, sociological, practical facets of an hypothetical zombie invasion.
I recommend it to ya all, it's pretty interesting, albeit a bit boring at times.

reply to post by mantarey


Well I didn't have the thing in mind but I see the correlation you made there. It would definately be limited to the virus just being able to keep the body alive and moving enough to pass onto another host to replicate some more.

Simplistic. Lets say like malaria making a home in your liver and replicating there, this virus would do it in your brain but in order to go one step further and make sure it goes on it makes its home in the brain and muscle tissues and replicates just the functions of certain cells/nerves. Being in the brain and seeing as how it makes a zombie lash out and bite and eat, it would be a relative of rabies (biting, infection through saliva), the mimicking of a specific cell function would be something genetic and engineered imo. Im more inclined to the 28 days later bug and an engineered one, but with an undead factor added in.

reply to post by topherman420


It would be somewhat like rabies and ebola combined. Rabies degrades cognitive ability while inducing aggressive tendancies, while ebola is highly contagious.

reply to post by AurelioMaghe


Cool - will have to check that out and see if it is on-demand!

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Rabies itself is highly infectious and Ebola would be too damaging to the body I would think. Maybe an influenza could be the key for a quick spread with limited impact on the body so at least its host stays viable longer for transmission. The longer it takes symptoms become apparent the more chances it has for spreading before any panic happens.

This would have to be an engineered virus I imagine, something programmed and precise. By whom? Who knows, I would like to imagine the governments being involved or more likely IMO, a more secret, non affiliated lab with potential buyers, some of whom could be world governments.

Then as for the use, well who knows what the intentions were. Could be a super-soldier idea or maybe a biological weapon, or some sort of miracle anti aging drug or life prolonging serum that goes horribly wrong.

And now I see I have spent way too much thought on this....I will snapping back into reality now and grabbing me a coffee.

reply to post by topherman420
I could see H1N1 H5N1 mixed with rabies, the three are air born both the flu virus and the rabies virus can spread for species to species, yews rabies is no longer a bit you get virus the air you breath can be infected with it, like in a tent a cave, or a room ie, a cabin, or a vehicle. speak of the devil this just came in www.newscientist.com... from the link

CDC prepares us for zombie attack this Halloween

yes i do get e alerts about the H1/ H5 / or cdc.

Originally posted by topherman420
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

Rabies itself is highly infectious and Ebola would be too damaging to the body I would think. Maybe an influenza could be the key for a quick spread with limited impact on the body so at least its host stays viable longer for transmission. The longer it takes symptoms become apparent the more chances it has for spreading before any panic happens.

This would have to be an engineered virus I imagine, something programmed and precise. By whom? Who knows, I would like to imagine the governments being involved or more likely IMO, a more secret, non affiliated lab with potential buyers, some of whom could be world governments.

Then as for the use, well who knows what the intentions were. Could be a super-soldier idea or maybe a biological weapon, or some sort of miracle anti aging drug or life prolonging serum that goes horribly wrong.

And now I see I have spent way too much thought on this....I will snapping back into reality now and grabbing me a coffee.

Yep, something that can be transmitted by airborne or droplet transmission would be ideal. Something simple, like you said, a virus with a latent prodromal period would be ideal. Influenza is great because there are so many strains and its active across all age groups.

Can't you see it now, "Thousands of undead as a result of weaponized influenza-zombie virus!"