Whats your problem with OWS, and why dont you help?

reply to post by radosta


I hope you will see my answer although there are so many posts inbetween.

Yes, I agree with you. Perhaps I am naive but I actually thought the OWS was a honest and spontaneous demonstration. Now, thinking about it and your post also mentioning it, in the society we have today not many demonstrations are honest or spontaneous. I have heard several times, but really didn´t want to believe it, that riots or protest have been staged just so the PTB could present even more rigid rules about everymans right to speak his mind. A lot of newspapers have removed the possibilty to comment on articles anonymously and you are definitely not allowed to protest wearing masks.

I think we are definitely going towards a very closed society. But what are we going to do? Perhaps the best way is to get involved in politics and try to change the system from within...

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


Phase I - The 2008 Economical Crash
Pt I - Infiltration - Started Aug 2007 completed Aug 2008
Pt II - Activation Initiated Aug 2008 completed Nov 2008
Pt III - Exposure - Initiated Nov 2008 completed June 2009
Pt IV - Leakspin - Initiated Jan 2009 completed Apr 2009

Phase II - Restoration Of Regulation
Pt I - New Dawn - Initiated July 2009 completed Apr 2010
Pt II - Enlightenment - Initiated May 2010 completed July 2010
Pt III - Exile - Initiated Sept 2010 completed Nov 2010
Pt IV - New Era - Initiated Nov 2010 completed Feb 2011

Phase III - Recapture And Restoration
Pt I - Global Enlightenment - Initiated Aug 2011 completed Oct 2012
Pt II - Starvation - Initiated Oct 2011!

More to follow!

reply to post by cheftim59


The occupy group does not have a viable plan yet to rule, so here is one I found

Here is the essence of what The People need to do, boiled down to a few important steps that everyone can remember:

To bring down the beast we must:

1) Publically verifiable Internet Voting
2) A new law compelling government to follow the vote
3) Audits of government spending and money printing (we must control the money, this is key)
4) Organized tax withholding to defund our enemies (we must force our control on them and not let their laws scare us into sheep)

We could get this by next year if we worked at it. I say we go for it, because our government has a million problems, and even with the people passing many new laws it will still take years to find all the problems and vote them out of our country. Let's start now.

occupywallst.org...

Because 50 years of McCarthism, 20 years of reaganism/bushism/thatcherism will make a confused hater out of anyone. There is only so much propaganda you can take before believing night is day and day is night. Up is down and down is up. Its called theater of the absurd!

I see sooooo manyyyy people defending capitalism, yet attempting to subtley distance themselves from corporatism. Unfortunately corporatism is the natural progression of capitalism and its main branch. I think it is impossible to go back to the days of christ where everything was a proprietership or partnership. The markets have gone global and the strongest firms, usually from the most "developed nations", have an overwhelmingly disporportionate share versus small and medium business. Natural progression and human weakness unavoidably brought us here and the fact we acted out of ignorance spead up the process.

This is the truth as I see it! I believe in market socialism which is a very mild form of socialism and has little in common with communism. Communism is a zombie system which I will never support. I believe in fair opportunity and not equal outcome. Corporations need to be controlled and regulated effictively and efficiently. They should not be allowed to interfere with any governmental body and especially not in the election process. I also believe in the public ownership of the means of production including the issuance and control of currency. Private interests should not be allowed to infilitrate to the top. We see private pensions, private schools, private prisons, private public transportation, private security firms, private central banking, private highways, private ports, etc.

Anything that the vast majority of people consider basic needs should be public!! Below that, I fully support private business and its right to prosper. Basically I am against big business and FOR medium and small business. The little guys needs a much better chance of success than he is getting now.......

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Because 50 years of McCarthism, 20 years of reaganism/bushism/thatcherism will make a confused hater out of anyone. There is only so much propaganda you can take before believing night is day and day is night. Up is down and down is up. Its called theater of the absurd!

I see sooooo manyyyy people defending capitalism, yet attempting to subtley distance themselves from corporatism. Unfortunately corporatism is the natural progression of capitalism and its main branch. I think it is impossible to go back to the days of christ where everything was a proprietership or partnership. The markets have gone global and the strongest firms, usually from the most "developed nations", have an overwhelmingly disporportionate share versus small and medium business. Natural progression and human weakness unavoidably brought us here and the fact we acted out of ignorance spead up the process.

This is the truth as I see it! I believe in market socialism which is a very mild form of socialism and has little in common with communism. Communism is a zombie system which I will never support. I believe in fair opportunity and not equal outcome. Corporations need to be controlled and regulated effictively and efficiently. They should not be allowed to interfere with any governmental body and especially not in the election process. I also believe in the public ownership of the means of production including the issuance and control of currency. Private interests should not be allowed to infilitrate to the top. We see private pensions, private schools, private prisons, private public transportation, private security firms, private central banking, private highways, private ports, etc.

Anything that the vast majority of people consider basic needs should be public!! Below that, I fully support private business and its right to prosper. Basically I am against big business and FOR medium and small business. The little guys needs a much better chance of success than he is getting now.......

At the end of the day, socialism is just a toll used by corporatist systems to create dependents, hence slaves, out of citizenry. Socialism is slavery. There is a reason that there are hordes of unskilled, unemployed youths ready to riot in Britain. It sure as heck aint free market capitalism. It is directly due to the dependency created by socialism. It is the opposite of compassion. It is destructive of human dignity and it destroys freedom. Corporatism and socialism are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they feed on each other. The EU is a banking, corporatist dominated quasi government, whose member nations are largely socialist. Free Market capitalism and a massive reduction in the power of centralized governments is the greatest threat there is to corporatism and to the central banking masters. Socialism is just one of their more effective tools because it requires large centrally controlled systems and massive debt creation. Socialism requires powerful elites to centrally manage the slave class.

If you are for small and medium business you are definitely anti-socialist. Government controls generally help big business and destroy small ones. Especially regulation and legislation. In reality anyway.

reply to post by radosta


You obviously have no idea what you are talking about or are dishonest to the core.

Just reading your signature made me dizzy!

Get a clue before you start twisting facts.

In other words I am ignoring your post because it is not worth my time. I simply respond to let you know how wrong you are and voice my DISpleasure..........

I don't help because I don't agree with the politics. That and I have a job. I don't have time to go smoke pot and sh*t and p*ss in the street.

And having spoken with some of the crowd, they don't even have a coherent message. Some people are bitching about corporations, some about banks. Some are complaining about rich people having money and they don't. Some want income redistribution, and many of them don't know why they're protesting. Youtube is full of interviews with clueless protesters.

Get a coherent message and people might take you seriously.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by radosta

 

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about or are dishonest to the core.

Just reading your signature made me dizzy!

Get a clue before you start twisting facts.

In other words I am ignoring your post because it is not worth my time. I simply respond to let you know how wrong you are and voice my DISpleasure..........

Many ignore truth my friend. If you prefer fantasy, have at it.

But if you would like to prove my points wrong, go ahead. Otherwise, I assume you cannot.

Hello, a new person here and this is my first post...I think that if people saw exactly what the 1% REALLY think of them there would be much more work done to raise awareness, and much more anger for instance this article today (and it is important to know that the pictures were from LAST years halloween party) yes i am talking to you...look, read, and now go do something:

www.nytimes.com...

Originally posted by Darkrunner
I don't help because I don't agree with the politics. That and I have a job. I don't have time to go smoke pot and sh*t and p*ss in the street.

And having spoken with some of the crowd, they don't even have a coherent message. Some people are bitching about corporations, some about banks. Some are complaining about rich people having money and they don't. Some want income redistribution, and many of them don't know why they're protesting. Youtube is full of interviews with clueless protesters.

Get a coherent message and people might take you seriously.

edit on 29-10-2011 by Darkrunner because: (no reason given)

Because the elite control everything and they would prefer to keep it that way. That is the reason there is no coherent message. Everything mentioned in your post is a problem for someone with eyes to see and ears to listen with.

Redistribution is necessary because all the wealth has gone to the top via trickle-down economics talked about by reagen and thatcher. Socialism was demonised on purpose so the gap between the haves and have-nots continues to grow infinitely until one day the situation will explode out of control. I and others do not have a problem with rich people who made it the honest way, but we do have a problem with tax cheaters and/or criminals who get away with their crimes.

I can understand your need to work to sustain your family(or yourself) but there is no need to be ignorant of worldely matters. You must keep up with the news(mainstream or alternative) less you fall behind and belong to the "and there are people who wonder what happened." of the eloquent James A. Lovell quote.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by Darkrunner
I don't help because I don't agree with the politics. That and I have a job. I don't have time to go smoke pot and sh*t and p*ss in the street.

And having spoken with some of the crowd, they don't even have a coherent message. Some people are bitching about corporations, some about banks. Some are complaining about rich people having money and they don't. Some want income redistribution, and many of them don't know why they're protesting. Youtube is full of interviews with clueless protesters.

Get a coherent message and people might take you seriously.

edit on 29-10-2011 by Darkrunner because: (no reason given)

Because the elite control everything and they would prefer to keep it that way. That is the reason there is no coherent message. Everything mentioned in your post is a problem for someone with eyes to see and ears to listen with.

Redistribution is necessary because all the wealth has gone to the top via trickle-down economics talked about by reagen and thatcher. Socialism was demonised on purpose so the gap between the haves and have-nots continues to grow infinitely until one day the situation will explode out of control. I and others do not have a problem with rich people who made it the honest way, but we do have a problem with tax cheaters and/or criminals who get away with their crimes.

I can understand your need to work to sustain your family(or yourself) but there is no need to be ignorant of worldely matters. You must keep up with the news(mainstream or alternative) less you fall behind and belong to the "and there are people who wonder what happened." of the eloquent James A. Lovell quote.

Sounds like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth there. On the one hand you say you have no problem with rich people who earned their money honestly, and on the other hand you say redistribution is necessary because "all the wealth has gone to the top" which is basically saying "my neighbor drives a Lexus and I take the bus every day so we need to spread the wealth around."

And for the record, I am not rich, I am middle class. But I don't expect the rich to share their wealth with me. I don't demand "free" health care, "free" college or "free" job training.

It is not the government's job to take care of you. Maybe I have read a little too much Ayn Rand.

Originally posted by Darkrunner

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by Darkrunner
I don't help because I don't agree with the politics. That and I have a job. I don't have time to go smoke pot and sh*t and p*ss in the street.

And having spoken with some of the crowd, they don't even have a coherent message. Some people are bitching about corporations, some about banks. Some are complaining about rich people having money and they don't. Some want income redistribution, and many of them don't know why they're protesting. Youtube is full of interviews with clueless protesters.

Get a coherent message and people might take you seriously.

edit on 29-10-2011 by Darkrunner because: (no reason given)

Because the elite control everything and they would prefer to keep it that way. That is the reason there is no coherent message. Everything mentioned in your post is a problem for someone with eyes to see and ears to listen with.

Redistribution is necessary because all the wealth has gone to the top via trickle-down economics talked about by reagen and thatcher. Socialism was demonised on purpose so the gap between the haves and have-nots continues to grow infinitely until one day the situation will explode out of control. I and others do not have a problem with rich people who made it the honest way, but we do have a problem with tax cheaters and/or criminals who get away with their crimes.

I can understand your need to work to sustain your family(or yourself) but there is no need to be ignorant of worldely matters. You must keep up with the news(mainstream or alternative) less you fall behind and belong to the "and there are people who wonder what happened." of the eloquent James A. Lovell quote.

Sounds like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth there. On the one hand you say you have no problem with rich people who earned their money honestly, and on the other hand you say redistribution is necessary because "all the wealth has gone to the top" which is basically saying "my neighbor drives a Lexus and I take the bus every day so we need to spread the wealth around."

And for the record, I am not rich, I am middle class. But I don't expect the rich to share their wealth with me. I don't demand "free" health care, "free" college or "free" job training.

It is not the government's job to take care of you. Maybe I have read a little too much Ayn Rand.

And you are creating a false dichotomy of what I implied. We already have a redistribution system in america, but it has more loopholes than the best swiss cheese you can find. If the law says you MUST PAY 40% then who are you to tell them "go f... yourself"??

You work hard and make lots of money? Good for you. Now pay the taxes to recirculate the wealth and if you get caught cheating, then do the time. It is really that simple to keep america(and the world) balanced. We can work on the constitution later.....

reply to post by Battleline


no permits? in a PUBLIC PARK WHERE EVERYONE WAS MEANT TO USE IT?...
i mean....i don't get it.
illegal? isn't that our...um 1st amendment? or has it been edited haven taking out that amendment?
wait...let me google it..
yup it's still there.

Originally posted by Battleline
reply to post by cheftim59

 

You are the perfict example of what this site's motto (deny ignorance) tries to prevent.OWS has no direction,no rule of law,no permits and has truned into an illegal party in the middle of city parks that were ment for everyone to use.The fact that people are getting hurt was bound to happen when the rule of law is inforced agenst those that brake the law.What do you purpose,total chaos tell you get your college loan payed for by the tax payer??
The fact that you harp on a vet getting hurt like he was targeted spacificly because he was a vet show's your mind set.Where is your concern for the people getting hurt that are not vets?Wait, thats right,doesn't have the impact that a young vet does......................does it??

edit on 28-10-2011 by Battleline because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-10-2011 by Battleline because: (no reason given)

no permits? in a PUBLIC PARK WHERE EVERYONE WAS MEANT TO USE IT?...
i mean....i don't get it.
illegal? isn't that our...um 1st amendment? or has it been edited haven taking out that amendment?
wait...let me google it..
yup it's still there.
(sorry for posting this twice, i meant to "quote" his post not reply)

Originally posted by firehose
www.nytimes.com...

I will happily quote this link. Everyone should click on it. I get enough blow off from the wannabe 1% to keep me edgy. This link has pushed me over that edge. I see you, rich. I will no longer try to understand why you avoid me. I will no longer try to break down the wall. I have zero respect for you and will show it at every opportunity that doesn't get me fired.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

Phase I - The 2008 Economical Crash
Pt I - Infiltration - Started Aug 2007 completed Aug 2008
Pt II - Activation Initiated Aug 2008 completed Nov 2008
Pt III - Exposure - Initiated Nov 2008 completed June 2009
Pt IV - Leakspin - Initiated Jan 2009 completed Apr 2009

Phase II - Restoration Of Regulation
Pt I - New Dawn - Initiated July 2009 completed Apr 2010
Pt II - Enlightenment - Initiated May 2010 completed July 2010
Pt III - Exile - Initiated Sept 2010 completed Nov 2010
Pt IV - New Era - Initiated Nov 2010 completed Feb 2011

Phase III - Recapture And Restoration
Pt I - Global Enlightenment - Initiated Aug 2011 completed Oct 2012
Pt II - Starvation - Initiated Oct 2011!

More to follow!

edit on 29-10-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)

That sound like you're claiming to have caused the crash in a problem - reaction - solution sort of scenario. Is that the case, or am I reading that wrong?

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I'm a private security contractor. What you are proposing here would put me out of a job, since there is no way I'd ever works for anyone else, especially not in the public sector. I make my own decisions on which contracts to take, and that isn't ever going to change.

So what do you do with us armed, trained, out of work, and pissed off people who've had their living removed and have nothing better to do than strike back? Just kill us off as you find us?

I mean, if that's the game plan, I'm aboard - what a way to go! Who wants to live forever anyhow?

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Let's see :
1. Personal responsibility, if you mean the banks and speculation traders being held with their feet to the fire for nearly bankrupting the world by using other people's money to gamble with their friends.,

Personal responsibility starts with YOU.... We have seen how the mayority of the OWS movement have been demanding for their own BAILOUTS... That is no way to respond to the corruption, which was put there by the left in the first place.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
4. Smaller government if you live in reality you know this is a pipe dream as you clearly have no idea how Gov't even works. Smaller gov't as in no more intrusive searches to board a plane, a major drawback on Gov't spying on it's citizenery, I'm forever down for it but if you are asking that there be less constraints on multi national, multi billion a year conglomerate who needs their every move chequed and scrutinized, everything then not a chance in Hell!.

More intelligent men than you or I knew it was possible, and they funded this nation with the right ideas. That is until the left decided to put in power the bankers/elites and then all hell broke loose and the U.S. was set on a course that would bring it slowly down a spiral for almost 100 years... And since the left set up the Feds, it was because of them that the world had to accept the U.S. dollar, which the Feds invented, and also put the whole world at the mercy of the bankers/elites...

You are the one who "clearly has no idea how the government of the U.S. should work"... as it is written in the U.S. Constitution that it SHOULD work...

Do yourself a favor and read it, from top to bottom, and read it again, and read it again until you understand it. The answers to solve all the problems in the U.S. are there... And if we follow it, we would use once again gold and silver instead of dollars, which will stop the use of the dollars around the world and the bankers/elites will not have as much of a hold on other countries...

Also, since we supposedly owe so much money to almost everybody on Earth we should DEMAND for every country that we ever helped to pay back all the monies we have given them, in gold/silver... That would stop them from demanding from us to pay them our debt, which they have NEVER forgiven, yet we have forgiven 10 times as much from almost every country in the world...

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Because 50 years of McCarthism, 20 years of reaganism/bushism/thatcherism will make a confused hater out of anyone. There is only so much propaganda you can take before believing night is day and day is night. Up is down and down is up. Its called theater of the absurd!

Theater of the absorb is to forget first of all that there has ALWAYS been a threat of socialism/communism... I have to laugh every time some ignorant person has to claim "socialism/communism have never been a problem"... Really? the over 110 million CITIZENS, without counting the deaths of soldiers in wars, murdered under socialist/communist doctrines/dictatorships around the world and the millions more who were put in gulalgs, and re-education/indoctrination camps in less than 200 years doesn't clearly show what socialism/communism really is?...

The fact that socialist/communist dictatorships like China, Cuba, and others have been spreading socialism/communism around the world by force "was never a threat"?...

Heck, we can even see how many young people, or not so young who have never experienced socialism/communism have been falling for the same lies which installed the worst dictatorships on Earth... Yet, socialism/communism have never been a problem?...

McCarthy WAS RIGHT... But the subversion started before him. Look at what the CENTRAL BANK/Feds have done to this country... What their INVENTED money has done to corrupt our political system which has slowly, but surely attacked the United States Constitution until what is left today is nothing but a shadow of what it once was...

If PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS under Woodrow Wilson hadn't signed into law in 1913 the Federal Reverse Act, and funded the IRS as it exists today the United States of America, and the world would be a different place, a much BETTER place...

Reagan WAS A LIFELONG DEMOCRAT who saw the corruption which plagued the Democrat Party and changed sides. But you actually think that he stopped believing in everything he believed in as a Democrat you are more delluded than I thought.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
I see sooooo manyyyy people defending capitalism, yet attempting to subtley distance themselves from corporatism. Unfortunately corporatism is the natural progression of capitalism and its main branch.

And again in this you are wrong once again... It wasn't capitalism which put the bankers/elite in power, it was the PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS.

Corporatism is the natural progression of SOCIALISM.... In SOCIALISM EVERYTHING is centralized, where a small group of people have all the power and CLAIM to represent the people, but they NEVER do... This is why every time a country has completely embraced socialism/communism it has become a DICTATORSHIP...

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
This is the truth as I see it! I believe in market socialism which is a very mild form of socialism and has little in common with communism. Communism is a zombie system which I will never support. I believe in fair opportunity and not equal outcome. Corporations need to be controlled and regulated effictively and efficiently. They should not be allowed to interfere with any governmental body and especially not in the election process. I also believe in the public ownership of the means of production including the issuance and control of currency. Private interests should not be allowed to infilitrate to the top. We see private pensions, private schools, private prisons, private public transportation, private security firms, private central banking, private highways, private ports, etc.
...

When you centralize all power over corporations only the stronger/the richer will survive, and this in turn will control the political system of every country in the world...

Can you not understand that centralization is an effect of socialism?... EVERYTHING is centralized in socialism giving power to a FEW people over all the economy, and all the resources, and no matter how many times it is claimed that such a socialist system will only serve the people, and all the people will be in power, the truth is that it will only give power TO A FEW PEOPLE...

I thought I should just post to say the protestors have my full support. Infact I have seen some with anti-TSA boards which doubles my support. Anyone who puts thier hands down peoples trousers and upskirts for money is a seriously sick individual IMHO and ahould be jailed immediately. The TSA arw aick tyrants bullying people, the people should line up the TSA and make them strip naked and march then round the cities as an example and throw tomatoes at them, then they should be locked up in the stocks for a week as a warning to anyone else.