What the hell am I doing?

i have never once in my life been of "one mind" about anything. in fact i have actively been trying to broaden my mind beyond human/physical scope, i want to perceive EVERY possible point of view, every facet, every strand, everything.

as consequence there has never been one clear path in front of me, i have always been a point in space with paths leading away in all directions.

lately i worry. i seem to be all over the place. i wonder if i should stick with one path, i wonder if maybe there a goal to reach after all, and i must choose it.

but every one seems as wrong as it seems right.

the more time goes by the less options i appear to have.


the two clearest paths seem to be...
toward nature and what might be considered "the past"(though not if you expanded the timeline beyond human terms).. living like my ancestors lived, living as if the world were the garden of eden and i was simply another strand in the great web of life.

or toward... "the future".. something that i cant quite define, at first glance it seems to be anti-nature in that it embraces technology and science, and you might think that makes it "wrong" or "evil"... but i dont think such terms have actual meaning in the infinite spaces we truly inhabit.. nature can never "die", technology and science are, by the simple fact that they exist, a natural evolution from what came before.
to the rocks and the dirt, the green of life is an abomination as well...

lol.. rambling

a whole large part of me wants to chuck the whole modern world into the ditch and live in a cabin in the woods.
but the rest of me just maxed out a brand new credit card in order to afford the one piece of technology i have wanted for as long as i can remember, something that will allow me to fulfill all the dreams i had about living in the modern world with a voice that people will now be able to hear.

so not only is this about the past/nature vs the future/technology... its about seclusion vs joining society


how the hell do any of you know what is right?
assuming you dont just base it all on things you were told to believe as a child..
i always listened to the voice inside my head... but it never tells me things are black & white... it always speaks in very broad terms...

living a life is hard work.

Originally posted by BohemianBrim
i have never once in my life been of "one mind" about anything. in fact i have actively been trying to broaden my mind beyond human/physical scope, i want to perceive EVERY possible point of view, every facet, every strand, everything.

as consequence there has never been one clear path in front of me, i have always been a point in space with paths leading away in all directions.

lately i worry. i seem to be all over the place. i wonder if i should stick with one path, i wonder if maybe there a goal to reach after all, and i must choose it.

but every one seems as wrong as it seems right.

the more time goes by the less options i appear to have.


the two clearest paths seem to be...
toward nature and what might be considered "the past"(though not if you expanded the timeline beyond human terms).. living like my ancestors lived, living as if the world were the garden of eden and i was simply another strand in the great web of life.

or toward... "the future".. something that i cant quite define, at first glance it seems to be anti-nature in that it embraces technology and science, and you might think that makes it "wrong" or "evil"... but i dont think such terms have actual meaning in the infinite spaces we truly inhabit.. nature can never "die", technology and science are, by the simple fact that they exist, a natural evolution from what came before.
to the rocks and the dirt, the green of life is an abomination as well...

lol.. rambling

a whole large part of me wants to chuck the whole modern world into the ditch and live in a cabin in the woods.
but the rest of me just maxed out a brand new credit card in order to afford the one piece of technology i have wanted for as long as i can remember, something that will allow me to fulfill all the dreams i had about living in the modern world with a voice that people will now be able to hear.

so not only is this about the past/nature vs the future/technology... its about seclusion vs joining society


how the hell do any of you know what is right?
assuming you dont just base it all on things you were told to believe as a child..
i always listened to the voice inside my head... but it never tells me things are black & white... it always speaks in very broad terms...

living a life is hard work.

The primary light scheme is Black & White, but with all colors in-between.

Ditching for a cabin in the woods isn't a bad thing. I ditched for where ever my feet land me. I find that to be even better, since I have zero physical ties to bog me down. But kNot many can live like that so always think anything out to the end, kNowing you will probably miss something. It's the inevitable.

What about things you can dew in your current life? Have you explored that avenue?

Ribbit

reply to post by BohemianBrim


You know what's right.. it's just hard to admit to yourself. So you, and me and everyone else comes on ATS and looks for support for the lies we tell ourselves.

Most of the time we don't want to hear the truth. But.. i can totally relate to your struggle.. make money, play society or run away to the woods, chop wood and meditate.

I will tell you what is right. Admit to yourself that from ANY moment in time you have EVERYTHING you need to make yourself successful at GIVING and SACRIFICING your life to helping others. Also admit that with that decision, NOTHING in life would ever be more rewarding than the satisfaction of truly helping other people in need. Nothing.

Demand Peace with moral authority and without judgement everywhere in your life. What you and everybody else wants is true freedom and liberty. And it comes from laying down the false life, the burden of material life, for those in need. It's hard to do. It's hard to give up a lifetime of supporting a disgusting, fake, unfulfilling system of violent domination. We feel like we are already so invested.. but what are we invested in? Our own oppression. Life is about dying for what is real, rather than living for what is false.

I hope i act on what i know is true before it's too late.

Peace Brother! Love your neighbor. That is the sum of the law!

reply to post by BohemianBrim


Well, as you stated in your OP, you have gone from *many* paths, to just two--so have you not made some progress?

Is it possible that you might find a balance, or moderate point between the two?

Otherwise, it's a false dilemma/dichotomy which defeats the rules of logic; not saying you have to live rationally--but it seems as this is what you want in some ways.

Perhaps brainstorm ways in which you may find that "Golden Mean" where you are in harmony with nature *and* society?

Let us know how your thoughts evolve...

Respect.

The two paths are towards the world and away from it. Towards matter or towards spirit. There are no other paths. There are many ways to accomplish either of these paths, but no other directions to go. Stagnation doesn't exist, at all times we are in motion, either evolving towards spirit or devolving towards matter, ascending or descending.

To be of the world, does not mean to not be spiritual. And to be spiritual, does not mean to not be of the world. The meaning of these ideas is gravely misunderstood in the west. To be of the world means attachment to things of this world, like having a fast car or indulging our sensual desires. To be of the spirit means attachment to things of that world, like devoting ourselves to taking the evolution of our consciousness into our own hands and doing whatever we have to do to achieve Enlightenment.

A man of the world might live as a monk, study holy books, and meditate all day. But if he cannot release himself from his attachment to worldly things, it won't avail him at all.

A man of the spirit might live in a city, work at a job, study and meditate on his free time, but because of his non-attachment to these actions and his self mastery, is making far more progress than the monk.

Good luck, peace be with you

reply to post by ButtUglyToad


i moved my furniture around. lol
and as i said, i bought that equipment to allow me to express myself to others, which in my current main path makes perfect sense.

im just not sure if it has real purpose yet.

reply to post by rwfresh


no, you are wrong, i do not know of anything that could be considered "right".. that is a human delusion.
i am not looking for support in lies, i am looking for more viewpoints that i may be ignoring.

"Admit to yourself that from ANY moment in time you have EVERYTHING you need to make yourself successful at GIVING and SACRIFICING your life to helping others. Also admit that with that decision, NOTHING in life would ever be more rewarding than the satisfaction of truly helping other people in need. Nothing. "

sorry, again, no.

"other people" are not separate from myself, helping them is helping myself as much as helping myself is helping them. we are all the same, we are all one. when i advance, the world always comes with me, and it never ceases to amaze me.
and besides, thats the very argument for buying that equipment, i want to spread my ideas around and help others see the truth as i see it. but im worried that will only help me become arrogant, haha.

you sound like someone who is repeating something he was told, no offense.
and you also speak in a lot of judgment terms, your mind is still grounded in the physical and so open to human self-deception.
it all sounds quite nice, it all sounds quite meaningful
but ive been there, done that, and i found it lacking and empty and the voice in my head repeated that it was not the full truth, and so ive moved past it to something more real.

the human race will always do the things you say, there is nothing wrong with that.
the monkeys will fight amongst themselves for dominance in the trees.
there is nothing wrong with that either.
if the entire planet destroys itself, no matter, there are others.
we are not these bodies, we are not this planet, we are not this universe.
we are all one.

but that doesnt really help me figure out what i should be doing RIGHT NOW. lol


reply to post by BurningSpearess


id need a time machine.. haha.

i think maybe i just need to stop trying to do what is "right" when i know there is no such thing.

its so hard to let things evolve naturally, so hard to let go and relax.


"i dont have to do anything"... i need to get that tattooed somewhere.

reply to post by Seventhdoor


wow, now that was a reply.

thank you. you expressed my problem very well.


though i object to your attaching human judgments to physical and spiritual.. what reason would you have for assuming one is higher or lower or greater or lesser than the other?

they are both sides of one coin are they not? yin and yang? light and dark?


THAT is my biggest problem of all.

often it seems to me i was/am spirit traveling towards the physical world... as if i am apart of the bridge between them.

i think that is really the issue... human beings want there to be a "right" and a "wrong".. and those things dont really exist.

the roots of a tree down in the dirt and dark are not evil, and the leaves and branches in the sun are not good.
they are all one together.

spirit or matter, it is the same.

so i guess my path does not matter really... i should just stop worrying about it.

reply to post by BohemianBrim


Give away the material junk you just bought and see how it feels. Otherwise telling me i am wrong is just conjecture. How would you know? From what authority do you speak?

Who am i judging? Myself mostly. But i can't lie for you like i can for myself. You asked.

You are right. it is something I've been told. And something I've been denying my whole life while also pretending to understand it enough not to actually be it. The experience of not knowing what is right sucks. It becomes painful and frustrating. It never goes away until you DO what is right. No ONE will ever tell you what you want to hear. The truth. You already know it. hearing it from another person's mouth is meaningless unless you accept it. When you accept it you are simply accepting what you already know as true.

Prove me wrong. Please. When someone tells you what is right please let me know. Because i truly want to know as well. I mean.. i want to know it is something else other than what i have refused to accept my whole life as explained in my other message.

Good luck, i understand your frustration. totally and completely.

Peace!

reply to post by rwfresh


give away all the food in your pantry, never eat another bite until every living thing in the entire universe is fully fed and happy for all eternity..
how would you imagine that would feel?
more importantly, what purpose would that serve? what purpose would that FEELING serve?

everything you said here was a judgement of others, a judgment based on how you believe things SHOULD and SHOULD NOT be from your own perspective:

Demand Peace with moral authority and without judgement everywhere in your life. What you and everybody else wants is true freedom and liberty. And it comes from laying down the false life, the burden of material life, for those in need. It's hard to do. It's hard to give up a lifetime of supporting a disgusting, fake, unfulfilling system of violent domination. We feel like we are already so invested.. but what are we invested in? Our own oppression. Life is about dying for what is real, rather than living for what is false. I hope i act on what i know is true before it's too late.

you are also judging me as being like you.
and while it is true we are the same, physically in this life we do not follow the same paths.

you say you understand my frustration, but i do not understand yours.

your life and your lessons are your own, they are not mine.

i apologize if im coming off as rude, im just being honest about how i feel.

Originally posted by BohemianBrim
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

i moved my furniture around. lol
and as i said, i bought that equipment to allow me to express myself to others, which in my current main path makes perfect sense.

im just not sure if it has real purpose yet.

reply to post by rwfresh

 

no, you are wrong, i do not know of anything that could be considered "right".. that is a human delusion.
i am not looking for support in lies, i am looking for more viewpoints that i may be ignoring.

"Admit to yourself that from ANY moment in time you have EVERYTHING you need to make yourself successful at GIVING and SACRIFICING your life to helping others. Also admit that with that decision, NOTHING in life would ever be more rewarding than the satisfaction of truly helping other people in need. Nothing. "

sorry, again, no.

"other people" are not separate from myself, helping them is helping myself as much as helping myself is helping them. we are all the same, we are all one. when i advance, the world always comes with me, and it never ceases to amaze me.
and besides, thats the very argument for buying that equipment, i want to spread my ideas around and help others see the truth as i see it. but im worried that will only help me become arrogant, haha.

you sound like someone who is repeating something he was told, no offense.
and you also speak in a lot of judgment terms, your mind is still grounded in the physical and so open to human self-deception.
it all sounds quite nice, it all sounds quite meaningful
but ive been there, done that, and i found it lacking and empty and the voice in my head repeated that it was not the full truth, and so ive moved past it to something more real.

the human race will always do the things you say, there is nothing wrong with that.
the monkeys will fight amongst themselves for dominance in the trees.
there is nothing wrong with that either.
if the entire planet destroys itself, no matter, there are others.
we are not these bodies, we are not this planet, we are not this universe.
we are all one.

but that doesnt really help me figure out what i should be doing RIGHT NOW. lol


reply to post by BurningSpearess

 

id need a time machine.. haha.

i think maybe i just need to stop trying to do what is "right" when i know there is no such thing.

its so hard to let things evolve naturally, so hard to let go and relax.


"i dont have to do anything"... i need to get that tattooed somewhere.

Move your bed so you are sleeping with your head pointing north and feet point west.

Ribbit

Originally posted by BohemianBrim
i think that is really the issue... human beings want there to be a "right" and a "wrong".. and those things dont really exist.

don't really know what you mean by this, but I disagree. I know some people can argue everything is relative and perception is reality, but you would be fooling yourself to believe that there is no right and wrong. It is Circumstance that creates right and wrong, correct and incorrect. Virtue cannot exist, neither can blame nor praise. Indifference and apathy become the basis of morality on that notion.

Originally posted by juveous

Originally posted by BohemianBrim
i think that is really the issue... human beings want there to be a "right" and a "wrong".. and those things dont really exist.

don't really know what you mean by this, but I disagree. I know some people can argue everything is relative and perception is reality, but you would be fooling yourself to believe that there is no right and wrong. It is Circumstance that creates right and wrong, correct and incorrect. Virtue cannot exist, neither can blame nor praise. Indifference and apathy become the basis of morality on that notion.

morality doesnt exist.
do animals have morality?

do you believe every intelligent alien being that has ever, or will ever exist, in the entire universe shares the same concepts as we humans?

if not, then you must face the fact that everything IS RELATIVE.



thats one thing the human race has over the animals, the ability to stare truth in the face and pretend it doesnt matter because it doesnt conform to their beliefs.

Originally posted by BohemianBrim


morality doesnt exist.
do animals have morality?

Do animals have culture?

do you believe every intelligent alien being that has ever, or will ever exist, in the entire universe shares the same concepts as we humans?

Can't possibly begin to comment on that as there hasn't been contact. (unless you count ancient aliens, in which they would be responsible for our concepts, right?)

if not, then you must face the fact that everything IS RELATIVE.


thats one thing the human race has over the animals, the ability to stare truth in the face and pretend it doesnt matter because it doesnt conform to their beliefs.

things can be relatively right or wrong...

Originally posted by BohemianBrim

Originally posted by juveous

Originally posted by BohemianBrim
i think that is really the issue... human beings want there to be a "right" and a "wrong".. and those things dont really exist.

don't really know what you mean by this, but I disagree. I know some people can argue everything is relative and perception is reality, but you would be fooling yourself to believe that there is no right and wrong. It is Circumstance that creates right and wrong, correct and incorrect. Virtue cannot exist, neither can blame nor praise. Indifference and apathy become the basis of morality on that notion.

morality doesnt exist.
do animals have morality?

do you believe every intelligent alien being that has ever, or will ever exist, in the entire universe shares the same concepts as we humans?

if not, then you must face the fact that everything IS RELATIVE.



thats one thing the human race has over the animals, the ability to stare truth in the face and pretend it doesnt matter because it doesnt conform to their beliefs.

Everything is Relative to Source and Source is Relative to Everything.

Ribbit

I feel the same as you and it has been plaguing my mind for quite some time. I think i would much prefer to live in the forests and spend all my time chopping wood, hunting/growing food and meditating. But unless i moved somewhere where they were already doing this i don't see it being possible.
So my solution.
I continue to live my life, not it dismay but in peace. I do what i can to avoid the system and still follow my spiritual path. I avoid materialism and live a simple life.
I believe i am here to help others, so that is what i do.
I just quit my job because it was causing harmful effects on my spirituality, i don't know what i am going to do and it does not bother me. Being at one with the world is my primary focus.

Also the world is starting to fall apart, so i have this inkling that i am waiting for this period for my time to shine!
Not sure if this will help you in anyway but thought my experience might put your mind at ease

Originally posted by BohemianBrim

though i object to your attaching human judgments to physical and spiritual.. what reason would you have for assuming one is higher or lower or greater or lesser than the other?

they are both sides of one coin are they not? yin and yang? light and dark?

often it seems to me i was/am spirit traveling towards the physical world... as if i am apart of the bridge between them.

I didn't judge anything but I see how it was interpreted like that. I certainly didn't use the words greater, lesser, higher or lower. When I spoke of descending and ascending what I am speaking of is a scale, or an axis if you will. Its entirely objective. It is like musical notes. On one side of the octave you have the spiritual, on the other you have the material. Our soul first goes towards the material, gains experience, and then goes towards the spiritual. Overall the process is one of integration and not exclusion. Some will certainly exclude one over another in life, some will never think a spiritual thought, and others will retreat from the world, condemning all that is earthly, and seeking to escape forever.

This scale is objective because all it ultimately represents is energy. This energy conforms to the Universal Law, which we often call Karma. This Law permeates everything, and as we are made up of energy of different kinds, we are subject to this Law. Its basically cause and effect. What people fail to grasp is that cause and effect also exist on the emotional and mental levels of our being. Its not just Newtonian physics. When we think or feel certain things, it creates suffering. In fact, almost all our suffering is generated on the emotional and mental levels. Its all about how we approach things, how we deal with life and reality. Buddha explains it far better than I, and in four short simple statements:

The Four Noble Truths

Originally posted by BohemianBrim
i think that is really the issue... human beings want there to be a "right" and a "wrong".. and those things dont really exist.

the roots of a tree down in the dirt and dark are not evil, and the leaves and branches in the sun are not good.
they are all one together.

spirit or matter, it is the same.

so i guess my path does not matter really... i should just stop worrying about it.

There may not be right or wrong, but there are actions which lead towards unconsciousness and towards consciousness, towards being more prone to suffering and less so. Its wrong to tell someone who is clearly not going to follow a spiritual path in this life that their way of life is evil, and try to instill fear in them of some eternal hell. They are learning important things that will help them evolve eventually, in this life or another. Though we should always make the attempt to let them know there is something higher. Its also wrong to tell someone trying to spiritually evolve that its OK to indulge their egoistic desires, because that will hold them back and they won't be able to achieve the realization they are seeking.

Spirit and Matter are opposite extremes of the same spectrum, the ascending/descending axis. The trap many people who want to develop are in is that they see the fulfillment of their egoistic desires as a basic right of theirs to indulge in and they are actually correct. It is, that's what free will is all about. However that same person also has the free will to decide to abandon those things and seek a different way of life. Its all about choice.

To really understand it all you need to study some Eastern Philosophies. Buddhism is a great place to start, but whatever you are naturally drawn to is best. I actually believe in religious and spiritual syncretism, but I admire Buddhism deeply. Buddhism is great for people who don't like moral dogma as well, because one of Buddhas main teachings was "Don't believe me, come and see for yourself". He never forced himself upon his students, he taught them and let them decide what to do with it. He also never taught about God, but said simply that such a thing would be incomprehensible and pointless to talk or think about. He also never labeled things as good and evil ultimately, but basically taught that suffering is bad and not suffering is good, which I think almost everyone but the mentally ill can agree with. Indian philosophies are also great, but you have to learn all the terminology and wade through like 6000 years of literature, but its a fun adventure.

reply to post by BohemianBrim


The way I read your description, I understood what I tend to think of as the two ways of yin or yang, or the masculine and feminine paths. I am not really talking of the sexes, but more about two parts of my own mind that I began to see as more feminine in nature and the other more masculine.

The more nature-past-physical side I see as being the feminine side..... perhaps just because it always seems to me that more women have a tendancy to feel closer to nature, to the inner workings of body and emotion, to being a peice of a larger whole in harmony, and the way past experience charges with meaning all in the present.

The future-mental-technology side, I call the masculine. More men seem to me to be focused upon dominating nature and "doing better" in creations than nature does; feeling closer to the mechanical and the logical, and standing outside of the whole as a separate being, and the way the future goals and intents charge the present with meaning.

These two paths of perception lie in each of us, I believe. My current view is that between the two, there is "I" the self consciousness that is always the mediator between the two, the part that must constantly weave the two together in the present, respecting the value of each in the now.

Kinda like a child between a mother and a father? because I see this way, I tend to see belief systems such as the Trinity in Christianity as a tool for comprehending this inner dynamic.

Personally, my choice for living at this time has been a bit of each, but perhaps leaning a bit on the feminine side (I am a woman, so that might be expected?) . My personal compromise has been to move to a rural area- I live high in the mountains, in a rather isolated spot, in a very old and large stone farmhouse, with everything I'd need to be self sufficient. The bonds I create with people are of a deeper nature than those I had when I lived in an urban environment- in a small town, everyone knows everything about everyone else and helps each other. This creates those associations of past with the present- I feel drawn to help someone because in the past, they helped me; I feel patience and compassion for others which really stems from my memories collected about them in the past. Life feels more down to earth, more "real" more sensual, and I really feel a part of a larger thing- a part of nature.

On the other hand, I do not reject technology. I am online (obviously) I have a cell phone (though it is not anything fancy, I can't go online with it, and don't care to), I drive a car. I have less technological toys than I used to. I don't even have a clothes dryer! It broke one day I decided I prefer hanging them outside and never bought another. But I set goals and desires for myself, which are essential to my masculine side.
They just are not usually in terms of possessing things, but possessing knowledge, skills, or experiences.
I do sports like running, I train and ride horses, (there's that taming of nature drive!), I am currently in the early stages of scuba diving as my latest hobby. I choose hobbies and sports to fulfil that need for self mastership.

The current society often proposes to the masculine side of us that possessing technological objects will fulfil that masculine drive, leading to consumerism. It is really worth checking out if that part of you can't be more fulfilled possessing challenging experiences in the present, with long term goals involved! My husband used to be a rabid collector of things, but I introduced him to this concept and he is convinced! Like he is crazy about many thigns, one of them being fighter planes. So he had models and flight simulators and made furniture out of peices of planes, and we even have a (real) jet in our front yard.

I worked for a year to earn the money, but I bought him a flight on a fighter jet. The experience blew his mind and convinced him that all the possessions he had were worthless compared to actually DOING what he dreamed of.

I'd consider trying it out. Instead of focusing on the next toy for your future, try taking up a sport, like martial arts, or rockclimbing! See if that doesn't just become your motivational force that becomes more important than the latest toy! In such things, you get to be master of self and nature.

It also has the side effect of creating fulfilling emotion charged memories that the other side can savor and they then have a common meeting point- like a husband and wife that find a hobby they share!