US Marine in critical condition after OccupyOakland

reply to post by AzureSky


Yeah there is something eerie about cops in riot gear
I'm pretty sure they are slaves or being brainwashed
protect and serve us warrants

Also found this:

Below is section two from the Oakland Police Training Bulletin.

b. The use of Direct Fired SIM must cease when the violent or destructive actions cease. These weapons must not be used for the purpose of apprehension or to otherwise prevent escape unless escape would present a substantial risk of continued imminent threat to loss of life or serious bodily injury.

c. Members shall only deploy Direct Fired SIM during a demonstration or crowd event under the direction of a supervisor. Oakland Police Department, 28 Oct 05 17

d. When circumstances permit, the supervisor on the scene shall make an attempt to accomplish the policing goal without the use of Direct Fired SIM as described above, and, if practical, an audible warning shall be given to the subject before deployment of the weapon.

e. Any person struck by a round shall be transported to a hospital for observation and any necessary treatment. Ambulance service, if required, shall be ordered per General Order I-4. First aid, when necessary, shall be administered per Training Bulletin III-K.

f. No member shall use Direct Fired SIM without formal training.

g. Direct Fired SIM shall not be used against a person who is under restraint.

h. Members shall not discharge a Direct Fired SIM at a person’s head, neck, throat, face,
left armpit, spine, kidneys, or groin unless deadly force would be justified

www.theblaze.com...

Originally posted by NightGypsy
From the videos I've watched involving Occupy Oakland, the police gave clear warnings that they were going to shoot tear gas, etc., into the crowds if they did not disperse. When the police say that, they mean it. You should expect if you're going to remain there, you may be hit by something. Whether it's wrong or right for the police to be shooting things into the crowd is a whole different debate, but the fact is, get the hell out of the area when they issue the warnings or you risk being injured. It's just common sense.

Secondly, speaking for myself only, there are no vets in these recent wars that I believe were "fighting for my rights" here in America. That is a load of crap. I'm sorry if that offends, but I'm tired of people putting these vets up on a pedestal like they've done me a favor, because the opposite is true. They blindly followed the government's direction when it was clear there was no need for these wars. If people can't see that after all this time, then there is something drastically wrong. In my mind, the fact that this man is a vet is irrelevant.

When the police say to disperse....disperse.......

So you are excusing the cop who fired another canister into the concerned protestors who were trying to help a severely injured man? I hate boot lickers ...

reply to post by NightGypsy


You are of course, entitled to that opinion but I disagree. At the very least, Scott Olsen was fighting for our RIGHT to peacefully assemble and demand a redress of our grievances via the first amendment.

You've got it exactly backwards, which is not surprising given the media manipulation going on. Posting stuff on the Internet is NOT a revolutionary act, but standing down half the battle compliment of the death star surely is.

A good peaceful protest would be if the non LEOs start shunning them.
The resteraunts have a right to refuse service -Start by making the other patrons feel 'safe' and keep the LEOs out. Hopefully the other stores would follow suit.

I would feel better shopping at a store knowing that the self aggrandizing thugs were not around. Security guards are just as if not more capable yet they treat others with respect.
They police have been allowed to get away with acting like they are God for far too long. They are not in fact the world would be a safer more pleasant place without them.


Of course if the protesters dressed nicer (suits, shined, shoes etc) I speculate that the cops would not have been so quick to resort to violence because as I have stated they are not the bravest and they do think twice before beating up someone who looks like he might be a politicians personal aid who might have the connections powerful enough to get the LEO demoted while people dressed like a college student between classes are fair game for their abuse.

I remember a quote that "Violence is the last action of someone who has run out of ideas"
Considering how quickly the Police resort to it, they don't have very many ideas to run out of.

reply to post by ker2010


I don't lick "books."

Hate me all you want. I don't give f***.

I'm just telling you what the bottom line is. No one is going to get suspended for this. People didn't disperse, and someone got hurt. Is there some portion of that reality that you cannot comprehend. How does that make me a "book licker" just because I'm stating the obvious?

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


Well that part is obvious.....and that's not my gripe. My gripe is the fact that some people act like this incident is more appalling because this man is a vet. His status as a vet is irrelevant in my mind, and I already stated why I feel this way.

He should have known better. We're trained to avoid such shenanigans for a reason. You end up being -the- 5-O'Clock news.

People love soldiers in their own way. To some, they are romantic, gallant figures; to others, they represent everything that they fear. The actions us military personnel take in the civilian world tend to carry immense weight because of our famous/infamous marginalization.

He shouldn't have been there, plain and simple. His status as a veteran should have been left out of the issue, entirely. His -individual- actions reflect upon the uniform he once wore.

He's now been injured and compromised. If "# hits the fan" and we do need armed citizens - he's out of commission and also labeled himself as a threat to various parties in the wings.

Hence why I don't ever show up at protests/demonstrations. I'll be there when it matters, voting on legislation or participating in open floor discussions; or stalking through the streets with an assault rifle in pursuit of enemies - there's not much need to draw more attention to myself or my affiliations than that.

You hit it right on the nose. For more than 15 years I have tried to explain this to so many folks on every side of life when it comes down to these things. Seems only fellow veterans get it most of the time and even a fair number of them don't get it much anymore. I will observe and do my part as a private citizen through the American participation and judicial process to make a change and when it does go down I will be where it counts defending and fighting the domestic enemies without hindrance of anyone knowing me nor my affiliations and associations when the time comes. It is our responsibility to do so. We must preserve and respect the former of our charge as much as the present.

Star for your brother.

reply to post by 0zzymand0s

You've got it exactly backwards,

Please explain to me what exactly it is that I have backwards?

reply to post by RainbeauBleu


When I propose support of the Rule of Law, I am speaking of the same Rule of Law that our founding fathers spoke of. Law that protects the weak, law that allows peaceful society to exist. It truly comes down to an idealistic concept rather than something that has ever actually existed.

It's the idea that just because you are strong enough to have your way doesn't mean that you should. What is right for the greatest number of people is what is considered right for the society, not what is right for just the strongest or wealthiest.

And, no, I am not surprised, just very disappointed and a little discouraged.

Originally posted by NightGypsy
reply to post by ker2010

 

I don't lick "books."

Hate me all you want. I don't give f***.

I'm just telling you what the bottom line is. No one is going to get suspended for this. People didn't disperse, and someone got hurt. Is there some portion of that reality that you cannot comprehend. How does that make me a "book licker" just because I'm stating the obvious?

Regardless of if the man didnt obey the cops quick enough or not that doesn't mean to leave him injured in the street. Thats beside the point.

So disperse and let the man die? Is that what you are saying..I guess had that been a relative of yours you would have just sat there and let them die of a brain hemorrhage because the cops said move .. We all know how long the police take to get hurt people help sometimes. Their have been documented cases of them waiting 30 minutes to a hour before they called in medics to a injured person.

BOTTOM line is a man was injured, people who have a soul/heart ran back to get the guy out of harms way. They fired on those people once again which was unnecessary. They did not give a damn how bad the guy was injured or if they hurt the others trying to help him. The man sustained life threatening injury's. You do know its a possibility he may have died if the protestors hadn't gotten him help when they did.

But you dont give a F%6& like you said. Its no one you know so you dont care. Had it been your brother, mom, dad etc im sure you would have just waited back and let the police prolong the situation before getting help to them with life threatening injurys..

Hell no America wont change cause we got people like you who most of America is composed of now who are unfortunately soft as cotton types who will do what anyone in power says regardless of rather it is right or not.

The mentality of authority is always right, do as they say, obey , do not question their god like authority is a very sick mentality.

Thankfully it sounds like this marine will live but of course it doesn't matter to you cause you woulda left him out in the street to die because cops told you to move along. And we cant question our demi gods can we?

If this guy dies... I have a feeling all hell is going to break lose...

reply to post by stephanies-chase



Thanks!

I am sure that it is going to come to that no matter what, but which side does it first?

Who knows!

#ING RIOT!

reply to post by GrimTroll


Violence is not the answer when the solution is simple. If everyone closed their bank accounts, and stopped feeding the system, the bankers would have no choice but to surrender. I do NOT condone any violence. The world has seen enough of it already.

We cannot bring a good future through an act of violence, all it will do is lead to more violence and vengeance. Enough is enough, if humanity doesn't learn this lesson, humanity may aswell be an extinct race in the next 100 years. (Assuming the nuclear power plants aren't shut down, then we would have a world wide fukushima )

Again

1. Close your bank accounts
2. Boycott powerfull companies
3. The resources used to pay police, military etc would deplete itself.


People have no idea how powerfull they can be with just those three suggestions. And guess what, not only will you have shown the world that there is a better way, but you will also do it with the LEAST bloodshed.


Sigh I hope Ron Paul wins, maybe this nightmare will be over if he becomes president.


One can only hope.

reply to post by Aim64C


Your quote ..

my views on the system and politics. I don't see much point in attempting to try and intimidate people/systems into doing what I want them to do

...I say to you that TPTB are there to implement what we want them to do and if we are not happy than change should be made. If we tried to lobby change through the right channels it would be laughed out and they would never implement what changes we want, they have power because we allow them to have and this is forgotten by career politicians and most Government's. They gain to lose so much if OWS ideology is successful and you seem to forget public demonstrations as the multitude that occurred against the Vietnam war which were peaceful in nature on the protesters side. you also say and i quote...

That is a very domineering way of thinking

....I say we the people are the true government, and we should be domineering to our government who we allow to govern. So they do not get complacent with the belief they can rule anyway they want. also you say

people who seem to be most upset by police actions are precisely the ones who are going to end up creating an atmosphere where violence is necessary.

...... You could also say the people who are upset will also be the ones who bring the wrung doings of the police to light and inadvertently justice. the most disturbing thing you say which sounds like something the stereo typical image of a gun toting police officer who thinks he is in the wild west show would say. Here is what you say

The way I see it - if you know I have pulled a weapon on you - I was far too slow

thanks because with that last quote you have condemned your self.
PLEASE Protesters stay peaceful and don't let the police planted protesters steer us in to violence. or THEY will win in demonizing us.

reply to post by ker2010

Regardless of if the man didnt obey the cops quick enough or not that doesn't mean to leave him injured in the street. Thats beside the point. So disperse and let the man die? Is that what you are saying..I guess had that been a relative of yours you would have just sat there and let them die of a brain hemorrhage because the cops said move .. We all know how long the police take to get hurt people help sometimes. Their have been documented cases of them waiting 30 minutes to a hour before they called in medics to a injured person.

What the hell are you even talking about? Who said to leave the man injured in the street? I never said anyone should do that! Jesus Christ! I am strictly talking about the man who got injured. He was injured because he didn't disperse! WTF are you going on about? I'm not talking about others who were attending to him!

Originally posted by NightGypsy
From the videos I've watched involving Occupy Oakland, the police gave clear warnings that they were going to shoot tear gas, etc., into the crowds if they did not disperse. When the police say that, they mean it. You should expect if you're going to remain there, you may be hit by something. Whether it's wrong or right for the police to be shooting things into the crowd is a whole different debate, but the fact is, get the hell out of the area when they issue the warnings or you risk being injured. It's just common sense.

Secondly, speaking for myself only, there are no vets in these recent wars that I believe were "fighting for my rights" here in America. That is a load of crap. I'm sorry if that offends, but I'm tired of people putting these vets up on a pedestal like they've done me a favor, because the opposite is true. They blindly followed the government's direction when it was clear there was no need for these wars. If people can't see that after all this time, then there is something drastically wrong. In my mind, the fact that this man is a vet is irrelevant.

When the police say to disperse....disperse.......

Just because you oppose to every war there is, doesn't give you the right to discredit all personnel serving and having served war in one way or another. Armed Forces do what they are told, they don't follow orders they get discharged and they are out of a job.

When was the last time you served your country?

People like you makes me wann puke, a selfish and arrogant individual who likes to talk the talk but does nothing to be in the front line like the vets you are now accusing of not fighting for your rights!

Get a life and do us a favor, unless you have been in the front line (in any element) like most of us, you have NO RIGHT to discredit vets!

Enough Said!

Originally posted by RisenAngel77
reply to post by GrimTroll

 

Violence is not the answer when the solution is simple. If everyone closed their bank accounts, and stopped feeding the system, the bankers would have no choice but to surrender. I do NOT condone any violence. The world has seen enough of it already.

We cannot bring a good future through an act of violence, all it will do is lead to more violence and vengeance. Enough is enough, if humanity doesn't learn this lesson, humanity may aswell be an extinct race in the next 100 years. (Assuming the nuclear power plants aren't shut down, then we would have a world wide fukushima )

Again

1. Close your bank accounts
2. Boycott powerfull companies
3. The resources used to pay police, military etc would deplete itself.


People have no idea how powerfull they can be with just those three suggestions. And guess what, not only will you have shown the world that there is a better way, but you will also do it with the LEAST bloodshed.


Sigh I hope Ron Paul wins, maybe this nightmare will be over if he becomes president.


One can only hope.

Yes this would work if a large majority of Americans were a 100% behind the cause.

But most Americans are complacent as long as they have their Lcd TVs and American Idol and just enough to get by they are happy.

Originally posted by RisenAngel77
reply to post by GrimTroll

 

Violence is not the answer when the solution is simple. If everyone closed their bank accounts, and stopped feeding the system, the bankers would have no choice but to surrender. I do NOT condone any violence. The world has seen enough of it already.

We cannot bring a good future through an act of violence, all it will do is lead to more violence and vengeance. Enough is enough, if humanity doesn't learn this lesson, humanity may aswell be an extinct race in the next 100 years. (Assuming the nuclear power plants aren't shut down, then we would have a world wide fukushima )

Again

1. Close your bank accounts
2. Boycott powerfull companies
3. The resources used to pay police, military etc would deplete itself.


People have no idea how powerfull they can be with just those three suggestions. And guess what, not only will you have shown the world that there is a better way, but you will also do it with the LEAST bloodshed.


Sigh I hope Ron Paul wins, maybe this nightmare will be over if he becomes president.


One can only hope.

You are absolutely right. And while we're at it....boycott the media and refuse to subscribe to their lying rags. It would send them a message that they need to start reporting the facts instead of propaganda.

Originally posted by NightGypsy
reply to post by ker2010

 

Regardless of if the man didnt obey the cops quick enough or not that doesn't mean to leave him injured in the street. Thats beside the point. So disperse and let the man die? Is that what you are saying..I guess had that been a relative of yours you would have just sat there and let them die of a brain hemorrhage because the cops said move .. We all know how long the police take to get hurt people help sometimes. Their have been documented cases of them waiting 30 minutes to a hour before they called in medics to a injured person.

What the hell are you even talking about? Who said to leave the man injured in the street? I never said anyone should do that! Jesus Christ! I am strictly talking about the man who got injured. He was injured because he didn't disperse! WTF are you going on about? I'm not talking about others who were attending to him!

Did you not see the other vids that were posted several times in here of a group of protestors running up to get the man help and remove him and being fired upon again? Thats low, the cops were in no danger. The people were just trying to remove a severely injured man no need to fire upon them. They were unarmed!!

If I misunderstood you then my apology.