US Marine in critical condition after OccupyOakland

Originally posted by Flint2011
reply to post by jlv70

 

I am displeased that a person was hurt overall, the fact that he is a Marine is just a means of exploitation being used by media and OWS in my view. NO ONE deserves what that young man had happen to him.

Oakland PD has launched an internal investigation and has asked the PA to investigate as well. There is video that shows several different angles.

The conclusion that he was shot with a rubber bullet is a non starter since Oakland PD does not utilise that item in their department.

In addition to the police requesting the PA inestigate the officers actions, there is the possibility the item that hit the marine did not come from the police. Apparently rocks and glass bottle were being thrown along with paint and other items.

All that aside the Marines status has been upgraded.

reply to post by capone1


The fact is that the OWS is a melding pot of people and a fair number just do not realize the implications and resources of there actions and participation. People expect to be treated better than they were in Oakland. On that level, it's valid to me. Not much more I can say than that my friend.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Hi Xcathdra, Glad to see you in here. I have been following up a bit regarding what you mentioned myself. I really wasn't debating that as without facts I am unable to pinpoint what brought about the harm to the man but it should not have happened either way. I have genuine concern for all out there. Especially my brothers in blue getting the blame for crap they didn't do. So many things can go wrong so fast.

Originally posted by Flint2011
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Hi Xcathdra, Glad to see you in here. I have been following up a bit regarding what you mentioned myself. I really wasn't debating that as without facts I am unable to pinpoint what brought about the harm to the man but it should not have happened either way. I have genuine concern for all out there. Especially my brothers in blue getting the blame for crap they didn't do. So many things can go wrong so fast.

Heyas... been trying to lay low so others can do their thing in these threads. Just wanted to add some updated info.

The info trickeling out in Oakland supports both sides of the story. The police acted because of the reports they were getting of people in the crowds assaulting people (not officers). I was watching StudioB on foxnews with Sheppard Smith and he commented on the police possibly over reacting, which coming from him says a lot.

I wasnt trying to challenge or debate or anything.. Just thought id give an update and hit reply to your post .

When the marine is more stable maybe he will be able to recall more info on what exactly happened. The latest video shows the protestors right next to the police line. It hows 1 officer tossing what looks like flash bangs into the nearest group.

When the first one went off (the marine is in the white shirt of someone has that video) the crowd kinda scrambeled and the marine went to the ground, and which poiint the second one went off. So its from the flash bang, the crowd scrambeling, possibly hitting the curb or somthing on the ground.

Oakland classified the incident as a... im forgetting the term they use, but essentially its being investigated as a top level priority that they would use if an officer uses deadly force or is severely injured. Thats why they shipped it over to the PA and their investigators.

Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by v1rtu0s0

 

So the guy died?

No, he's not dead AFAIK but he's in a serious condition in hospital.

His condition has been upgraded to "Fair".

....which usually means he'll be okay.

Originally posted by FissionSurplus
Now I know why the protesters in Athens, Greece, were seen with full motorcycle helmets on, visors down.

This is a sad story, but not unexpected, considering the mentality of the men in blue. I hope the Marine pulls through with a full recovery. I also hope that this will be a clarion call for veterans to come out and show their solidarity. They, more than any other, know how dishonest and dishonorable our government has become. They, more than any other, know that they were nothing more than an invading force for Wall Street multinational interests, and once TPTB were done with them, they tossed them aside like garbage.

It has become time to bite the hand that pretends to feed us.

That's some terribly two dimensional thinking you have on display there. It reminds me of Mr. Bush saying "you're either with us or with them".

A Brother has been injured. He was injured by the police, but he was no less injured by the protestors. They sucked him into this mess, turned him into a target, and now trumpet his injuries with glee... same as the Bu#es did. He's become a "poster child" for "the cause". They have their first martyr.

Stand in solidarity with the protestors? Not a goddamned chance in hell now, bubba. Solidarity with the police? Nope, that ain't gonna happen either. It's no more an "either/or" situation than Bushes War was.

Two dimensional thinking. Think laterally instead. there are other options, and they may be options you don't like and didn't account for. The protestors better think real hard about this war they're flirting with, because it could get really real, really quick.

Think hard before you push this war any further. Someone is going to have to put both sets of these children in the corner for a time out if they don't straighten up. Just because we promised to protect you doesn't mean we are going to join your "cause".

There ARE other options.

MARINES TO OAKLAND POLICE: 'You Did This To My Brother'

Marines around the world are outraged by the injuries inflicted by police on Scott Olsen at Tuesday's Occupy Oakland protests. Olsen is in a medically-induced coma after getting hit in the head by a police projectile.

The following picture is taken from the Reddit thread "How I feel, as a United States Marine, about what occurred in Oakland."

This man is not alone. In the five hours since the thread went up there have been over 600 comments.

Injured Marine Scott Olson Is A Network Engineer Who Can't Stand American Inequality

The Iraq War veteran injured in clashes between police and anti-Wall Street protesters felt so strongly about economic inequality that he wanted to do something to change it, his roommate said Thursday.

Scott Olsen, 24, joined the protests as he worked his day job as a network engineer and left his apartment each night to sleep alongside protesters in San Francisco and Oakland, Calif., Keith Shannon said.

Lots of marines are pissed... and not just marines. And rightfully so. Freaking cops committing felonies and getting away with it.


And one point... isn't it weird that it's only ``important`` when a veteran gets his skull cracked in? It's not as ``important`` when it's a 25 years old student... why that is? The military worship in America? Some citizens are more equal than others it seems.

Originally posted by AzureSky

If there are any military in the audience, what is your view on it?
I believe that the military men/women have a bond, stronger than just any old bond. A war bond. They fought together in the war. It will incite anger among a lot of people i do believe. If this man dies, it will be the turning point i do believe. It just brings more military into the mix. And they are tougher than cops ever will be.

Veterans fought a war, and now they're fighting one at home against people sworn to protect the people.

I can't speak for everyone. Here's my take. These "protestors" are the same people who railed against the military for being "tools". Now THEY want to make them "tools" again, but for their side this time.

News flash: soldiers fight for the People. The WHOLE people, not just some mini segment of the fringe. "99%" my ass. The protestors are putting the whole People at risk at the hands of the police. It's a bad brew, but it's not an either/or situation. You are BOTH putting the People at risk.

lateral thinking.

Make damned sure you want what you're gonna get if you keep pushing this. It may not turn out to be what you hoped for.

Another thing about soldiers: since they've been made "tools" before, they've learned to recognize when that sort of manipulation is afoot.

Like now.

What are you going to do if some of them listened, and decide not to be putty in YOUR hands at the expense of the People?

Originally posted by AzureSky
Alright. So where did it become okay to use tear gas as a first response? It matters not if they are blocking the way, they are peaceful protesters, and you can grab them and take them away. But you must resort to using tear gas? and rubber bullets? and sound cannons? I have lost even more respect for some of the police. There are pictures of the marine, and other people in the link, beware, some are bloody. One photographs a woman in a wheelchair coming out of a cloud of tear gas. The marine got smashed in the head with a tear gas canister (or perhaps a rubber bullet), he has a fractured skull, and brain swelling. God bless.

This is going to invoke more of a response from the marines and military, I am not military, but i have the understanding that they are like brothers, they fight side by side. And after this, i suspect an increased military presence at any Occupy encampment.

Military like this man, will always have a place in my heart for standing up for what they believe in. Peace.

edit on 26/10/11 by AzureSky because: (no reason given)

Agreed.
Something needs to be done to reign in the police from the bottom to the top.
Be it , dating their daughter, or wife, or punching them out at their favorite hangout.
They are out of control and should be brought to attention.
They feel they have the right to beat anyone who is out of line, because they have a badge.
I dont have a badge, but feel the same rights apply to me.

Why?: Because I was born with it.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Yeah, I am aware of the investigation status. I also learned the Marine is in fair condition at current which is a good sign. I was reading an article from San Francisco Chronicle about the idiots pitching tents up yet again. What is wrong with these people. They were informed more than once and yet they continue to snub there noses at the City and police authorities. I think the protesters believe they can take advantage of the situation with the young man who was hurt and the investigation taking place an all now. They are so mistaken. Force will be used to remove them as needed yet again.

reply to post by jlv70

Here's a pic taken before he got shot, Olsen and the sailor are standing directly in front of the police line. Olsen and the sailor are sandwiched between the main body of protesters and the police.

... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. I'd have shot that Marine, myself, appearing in public in such a disgraceful way.

At least the second class petty officer, there, has some damned pride in the uniform. (I believe he's an AE - hard to make out the rating badge, but it appears to be an Aviation rating - could be an AO, as well).

reply to post by Aim64C


Well if this is not an obvious troll post -- it's sheer ignorance.

I'm sure the pig pen needs more hogs.

reply to post by Vitchilo


The titles and articles are a bit premature since the police have not been officaly listed as the cause of his injuries. Hence the reasons its under investigation. The Rubber Bullet claims are inaccurate since Oakland PD does not use rubber bullets at all.

Let the independant investigation run its course before we do the 100 meter rush to judgement.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Flint2011
reply to post by jlv70

 

there is the possibility the item that hit the marine did not come from the police. Apparently rocks and glass bottle were being thrown along with paint and other items.

All that aside the Marines status has been upgraded.

Yes, a protestor would throw a bottle or rock at someone who was defending them...

And the must have the arm of a professional baseball pitcher. Really? You can do better than this....

reply to post by Xcathdra


They were masked. We don't know who they were or what 'force' they represent. With no discernable ID how can anyone be investigated? At this point it would require others on that side of the barrier to make a positive ID...if they can...or will. Being a member of our military does not rule out participation in a peaceful demonstration. We have the right to peaceful demonstration. Speaking up when we believe our gov'ts action is
wrong is our duty.

The system is broken. A broken system will not allow itself to be voted out.

reply to post by Flint2011


There is apparently a split in the protestor intentions. You have the large bulk who are all about minor civil disobediance and protesting, which is fine. You then have the other half of the protestors who are advocating violence towards the government, which is not fine.

Although relatively minor in their numbers, all it takes is just one of the violence morons to act in a moment of confusion to set things off. The other issue the protestors seem to have is what is public and what is private property. Using New York as an example one of the main parks they were using is actually privately owned that is open to the public. Since its private the protestors can be told to move at any point the owenrs wish.

In a larger city close to me they are allowed to use the city-county park system to protest, however the parks close at dusk, which the protestors dont seem to comprehend.

They need to organize beter, set themselves apart form the wingnuts advocating violence, refine their message and goals and go from there. Right now we know there is a protest, and we have an understadning of why, and nothing else.

What do the protestors want?
How do they expect to arrive at their goal?

Originally posted by kno22
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

They were masked. We don't know who they were or what 'force' they represent. With no discernable ID how can anyone be investigated? At this point it would require others on that side of the barrier to make a positive ID...if they can...or will. Being a member of our military does not rule out participation in a peaceful demonstration. We have the right to peaceful demonstration. Speaking up when we believe our gov'ts action is
wrong is our duty.

The system is broken. A broken system will not allow itself to be voted out.

They were in Uniform and were okland PD officers. Secondly anytime those types of items are utilised reports are required to be done since its a use of force. Most larger departments have other methods aside from paperwork as well to track that type of stuff (some departments actually weight officer issued pepper spray among other methods).

The video from various sources is also part of the investigation. Keepo in mind the investigation is to determine what happened, not guilt or innocence as of right now. If wrongdoing is located it is up to the PA to pursue the charges.

In addition to the officers, they will be looking at the protestors that were in the immegdiate area as well to see if an object other than the flash bangs were used.

Let the investigation proceed and see what is found.

As a side note Im not attacking anyone for protesting in any way shape or form, with the exception of the ones who want to use violence, which is not needed. As I see people constantly point out on this site about due process, law enforcement is extended that right as well.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
The irony of the whole thing, is that the same people that are putting these vets on a pedestal, BEFORE the OWS protest, were the same people calling them monsters, baby killers, tools of the gov.....

Not to mention stupid, ignorant, oh and lets not forget that only people who are the bottom rung in America join the military......



Oh wait, unless its for OUR cause............

Really, some people make me want to vomit until i have a brain hemorrhage.......

Yeah, it's kind of like how the Tea Party didn't like their movement being smeared, and yet that's exactly what they're doing to the Occupy Protests. Or you know, the Tea Party complaining about Occupy Protestors breaking the law (i'm not talking about the public indecency thing) when the original Tea Party (aka what their movement is based) also broke the law. Or you know, complain about the occupiers threatening violence when the tea partiers did the same. I guess it's only a double standard when it's on the side that doesn't agree with you.

Originally posted by technical difficulties

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
The irony of the whole thing, is that the same people that are putting these vets on a pedestal, BEFORE the OWS protest, were the same people calling them monsters, baby killers, tools of the gov.....

Not to mention stupid, ignorant, oh and lets not forget that only people who are the bottom rung in America join the military......



Oh wait, unless its for OUR cause............

Really, some people make me want to vomit until i have a brain hemorrhage.......

Yeah, it's kind of like how the Tea Party didn't like their movement being smeared, and yet that's exactly what they're doing to the Occupy Protests. Or you know, the Tea Party complaining about Occupy Protestors breaking the law (i'm not talking about the public indecency thing) when the original Tea Party (aka what their movement is based) also broke the law. Or you know, complain about the occupiers threatening violence when the tea partiers did the same. I guess it's only a double standard when it's on the side that doesn't agree with you.

edit on 27-10-2011 by technical difficulties because: (no reason given)

Please provide links to anything relating to "violence" by the Tea Party. Or....breaking of the law.

The OWS movement is endorsed by the National Communist Party, The American Nazi Party, and the Iranian Government.

Please peddle your bullsh*t someplace else if you're going to accuse without proof.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Vitchilo

 

The Rubber Bullet claims are inaccurate since Oakland PD does not use rubber bullets at all.

I'm not so sure about that. Folks out there are allegedly finding rubber bullets and empty shotgun shells laying on the streets where this went down.









Source

Source

EDIT:

Interestingly enough, the Oakland PD allegedly does not use rubber bullets, but the image below definitely shows that they posses them.

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