Studies In The Philosophers Way, Words of Wisdom and Gospel

What is more true? Religion or the virtue that is housed therein? The outer trappings of the fable or myth, or the theme hidden under the cloth, the bundle wrapped within the outer trappings? Is any idea more important than its theme,and themes that are shared amongst others, found in the wisdom of ages?

When phrases seem familiar, when truth is in the hearts of all men, if they still themselves enough to listen.

Do we need practice in a Church or Temple, or make sacrifices on the altar, or fine tune ourselves, find the essentials that are true in ourselves and weed out the programs and excesses, perfect the weaknesses and sit at the feet of Wisdom. For where do the rays of the sun not reach, that we may not be enlightened by it? So the inner well is within all, and we are called to find its source. What is this light that guides within, and is it harmed by the passing of each light bearer, or does it spring from an even greater source?

Why do the words resemble the gospels? While it can be argued that they may have influenced them, some even believe they could be the works of philosophy, even attribted to Seneca, who was born in 4 BC and employed by Nero when Paul was on trial and spent 2 years spreading Christianity in Rome. However, there had to be something Paul had learnt, and valued so much to wish to risk his life to spread, to begin with. However, we have no definitive answers, except that the Wisdom that runs from the streams within those who seek it, seems to utter similar words and concepts, in the lives of many great minds/hearts. So this thread won't be about Christianity and its origins, but the common truth found in all hearts for those who work to overcome the world and its traps. The fountain hidden within all of us.

This thread will begin with Seneca, and will take time to unfold, for this journey is just beginning.

These works belong in the public domain, and to all of us.
www.gutenberg.org...

L. Annaeus Seneca on Benefits by Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Seneca on Benefits:

Book II on:

---let us give the way in which we ourselves would like to receive. Above all we should give willingly, quickly, and without any hesitation; a benefit commands no gratitude if it has hung for a long time in the hands of the giver.... To hesitate is the next thing to refusing to give, and destroys all claim to gratitude.

---...it follows that one who has by his very delay proved that he gives unwillingly must be regarded as not having given anything, but as having been unable to keep it from an importunate suitor.

---The best thing of all is to anticipate a person's wishes; the next, to follow them; the former is the better course, to be beforehand with our friends by giving it what they want before they ask us for it.....

---Men would be much more modest in their petitions to heaven, if these had been made publicly; so even when addressing the gods, before whom we can with all honor bend our knees, we prefer to pray silently and within ourselves.

---We ought, therefore, to divine every man's wishes, and when we have discovered them, to set him free from the hard necessity of asking; you may be sure that a benefit which comes which comes unasked will be delightful and will not be forgotten.

--- One who gives so readily must needs give with good will; he therefore gives cheerfully and shows his disposition in his countenance.

---And the following lines, the expression of virtuous—a high-spirited man's misery, –

“What thou doest, do quickly.”

---When Marius Nepos of the praetorian guard asked Tiberius Caesar for help to pay his debts, Tiberius aksed him for a list of his creditors; this is calling a meeting of creditors, not paying debts. When the list was made out, Tiberius wrote to Nepos teling him that he had ordered the money to be paid, and adding some offensive reproaches. The result of this was that Nepos owed no debts, yet received no kindness; Tiberius, indeed, releived him from his creditors, but laid him under no obligation.

---”And yet,” we are told, “Tiberius did not even by this means attain his object; for after this a good many persons were found to make the same request. He ordered all of them to explain the reasons of their indebtedness before the senate, and when they did so, granted them certain definite sums of money.” This is not an act of generosity, but a reprimand. You may call it a subsidy, or an imperial contribution; it is not a benefit, for the receiver cannot think of it without shame. I was summoned before a judge , and had to be tried at bar, before I obtained what I asked for.

---Accordingly, all writers on ethical philosophy tell us that some benefits ought to be given in secret, others in public. Those things which it is glorious to receive, such as military decorations or public offices, and whatever else gains in value the more widely it is known, should be conferred in public; on the other hand, when they do not promote a man or add to his social standing but help him in weakness, in want, or in disgrace, they should be given silently, and so as to be known only to those who profit by them.

---”What,” say you, ought he not to know from whom he received it?” Yes; let him not know it at first, if it be essential to your kindness that he should not; afterwards I will do so much for him, and give him so much that he will perceive who was the giver of the former benefit; or, better still, let him not know that he has received anything, provided that I know that I have given it. “This, “ you say, “is to get too little return for one's goodness.” True, if it be an investment of which you are thinking; but if a gift, it should be given in a way which will be of most service to the receiver. You should be satisfied with the approval of your own conscience; if not, you do not really delight in doing good, but in being seen to do good.

---We ought not even to tell others of our good deeds. He who confess a benefit should be silent, it should be told by the receiver; for otherwise you may receive the retort which was made to one who was made to the one who was everywhere boasting of the benefit which he had conferred; “You will not deny, said his victim, “that you have received a return for it?” “When?” asked he. “Often, “ said the other, “and in many places, that is, wherever and whenever you have told the story.”

---If the farmer ceases his labor after he has put in the seed, he will lose what he has sown; it is only by great pains that seeds are brought to yield a crop; no plant will bear fruit unless it be tended with equal care from first to last, and the same rule is true of benefits. Can any benefits be greater than those which children receive from their parents? Yet these benefits are useless if they be deserted while young, if the pious care of the parents does not for a long time watch over the gift which they have bestowed. So it is with other benefits; unless you help them, you will lose them; to give is not enough, you must foster what you have given. If you wish those whom you lay under an obligation to be grateful to you, you must not merely confer benefits upon them, but you must also love them. Above all, as I said before, spare their ears; you will weary them if you remind them of your goodness, if you reproach them with it you will make them hate you. Pride ought above all things to be avoided when you confer a benefit. What need have you for disdainful airs, or swelling phrases? The act itself will exalt you. Let us shun vain boasting: let us be silent, and let our deeds speak for us.

--- “Not so; you he will blame, and deservedly; when he comes to his right mind, when the frenzy which now excites him has left him, how can he help hating the man who has assisted him to harm an to endanger himself? It is a cruel kindness to allow one's self to be won over into granting that which injures those who beg for it.”... Let us confer benefits of such a kind that the more they are made use of the better they please and which never can turn into injuries. I never will give money to a man if I know that he will pay it to an adulteress, nor will I be found in connection with any wicked act or plan; if possible, I will restrain men from crimes if not at least I will never assist them in it.

---....I must give to him that wants, yet so I do not want myself; I must help him who is perishing, yet so that I do not perish myself unless by so doing I can save a great man or a great cause.

---There should be a proportion between men's characters and the offices which they fill; and virtue in all cases should be our measure, he who gives too much acts as wrongly as he who gives too little.

---The best man is he who gives readily, never asks for any return, and is delighted when the return is made, because, having really and truly forgotten what he gave, he receives it as though it were a present.

---Every function which is performed by two persons makes equal demands upon both: after you have considered what a father ought to be, you will perceive that there remains an equal task, that of considering what a son ought to be: a husband has certain duties, but those of a wife are no less important. Each of these give and take equally, and each require a simliar rule of life, which, as Hecaton observes, is hard to follow: indeed, it is difficult for us to attain to virtue, or even to anything that comes near virtue: for we ought not only to act virtuously but to do so upon principle. We ought to follow this guide throughout our lives, and to do everything great and small according to its dictates: according as virtue prompts us we ought both to give and to receive.

This book on benefits, or the virtues of giving, not that which is loaned, but generosity and unity, of humanity.
I particularly enjoyed this work and will post my notes on passages that stood out. In his day and times, Rome,under the employment, forced employment, of Nero, though born of wealth he was not free, yet attained an inner freedom and peace far beyond most.

From the works I'm currently reading, he said this:

Seneca, Moral Epistles

www.martinfrost.ws...

On the section pertaining to the wisdom of age:

----But I am ashamed of
mankind, as often as I enter the lecture-hall. On my way to the house of Metronax I am compelled to
go, as you know, right past the Neapolitan Theatre. The building is jammed; men are deciding, with
tremendous zeal, who is entitled to be called a good flute-player; even the Greek piper and the
herald draw their crowds. But in the other place, where the question discussed is: "What is a good
man?" and the lesson which we learn is, "How to be a good man," very few are in attendance, and
the majority think that even these few are engaged in no good business; they have the name of
being empty-headed idlers. I hope I may be blessed with that kind of mockery; for one should listen
in an unruffled spirit to the railings of the ignorant; when one is marching toward the goal of honour,
one should scorn itself.


----What then is peculiar to man? Reason. When this is right and has reached
perfection, man's felicity is complete. Hence, if everything is praiseworthy and has arrived at the
end intended by its nature, when it has brought its peculiar good to perfection, and if man's peculiar
good is reason; then, if a man has brought his reason to perfection, he is praiseworthy and has
reached the end suited to his nature. This perfect reason is called virtue, and is likewise that which
is honourable.


---I shall explain what I mean: A good man will do what he thinks it will be
honourable for him to do, even if it involves toil; he will do it even if it involves harm to him; he will do
it even if it involves peril; again, he will not do that which will be base, even if it brings him money, or
pleasure, or power. Nothing will deter him from that which is honourable, and nothing will tempt him
into baseness. Therefore, if he is determined invariably to follow that which is honourable, invariably
to avoid baseness, and in every act of his life to have regard for these two things, deeming nothing
else good except that which is honourable, and nothing else bad except that which is base; if virtue
alone is un-perverted in him and by itself keeps its even course, then virtue is that man's only good,
and nothing can thenceforth happen to it which may make it anything else than good. It has escaped
all risk of change; folly may creep upwards towards wisdom, but wisdom never slips back into folly.

Very few seem to first of all question why they're here,and pull themselves away from world's traps, entertainment, purchases to think deeply on the issues. And this lack within, is the reason for the perils and corruption without, for only Love uplifts a world, and Goodness. Without reason, wisdom, compassion and love, that outpaces our technologies there is no way we will pass on this bounty we were gifted with, to our children, we've allowed this planet to resemble a hellzone, and depleted the resources, and broken the very intricate circles of life, that we're not immune from.

We're not wise enough to think, feel, reflect, and seek, and do the work we came to do, grow up in spirit, wisdom, love and our actions should follow suit.

The background and mystery surrounding Seneca is rather intense. He is one of the most interesting men,sufficient to say.

Many questions could be asked and so far I've been entertaining several lines of thought. For Seneca is quite a deep rabbit hole to traverse.

He was born in Spain before 4-1 BC , and his family moved to Rome. There are accounts that he spent time in Egypt as well.

Seneca and his older brother Galio, were sons of the rhetorician Seneca the Elder: en.wikipedia.org...

Lucius or Marcus Annaeus Seneca, known as Seneca the Elder and Seneca the Rhetorician (ca. 54 BC – ca. 39 AD), was a Roman rhetorician and writer, born of a wealthy equestrian family of Cordoba, Hispania. Seneca lived through the reigns of three significant emperors; Augustus (ruled 27 BC - 14 AD), Tiberius (ruled 14 AD - 37 AD) and Caligula (ruled 37 AD - 41 AD)....

During a lengthy stay on two occasions at Rome, Seneca attended the lectures of famous orators and rhetoricians, to prepare for an official career as an advocate. His 'ideal' orator was Cicero, and Seneca disapproved of the florid tendencies of the oratory of his time.

Perhaps there was a similarity between the Stoicism of the father and son here.

Of Seneca's brother, Gallio,

en.wikipedia.org...

He was adopted by Lucius Junius Gallio, a rhetorician of some repute, from whom he took the name of Junius Gallio. His brother Seneca, who dedicated to him the treatises De Ira and De Vita Beata, speaks of the charm of his disposition, also alluded to by the poet Statius (Silvae, ii.7, 32). It is probable that he was banished to Corsica with his brother, and that both returned together to Rome when Agrippina selected Seneca to be tutor to Nero. Towards the close of the reign of Claudius, Gallio was proconsul of the newly constituted senatorial province of Achaea, but seems to have been compelled by ill-health to resign the post within a few years.

According to the Book of Acts he dismissed the charge brought by the Jews against the Apostle Paul. (Acts 18:12-17) His behaviour on this occasion ("but Gallio cared for none of these things", v. 17) showed his disregard for Jewish sensitivities, and also the impartial attitude of Roman officials towards Christianity in its early days. Gallio's tenure can be fairly accurately dated to between 51-52 AD or 52-53 AD,[1] therefore the events of Acts 18 can be dated to this period. This is significant because it is the most accurately known date in the life of Paul.[2]

He survived his brother Seneca, but was subsequently put to death by order of Nero in 65 AD or committed suicide probably due to the death of his brother.

The ties between the Apostle Paul, and Seneca are more than superficial, as is the similiarity of not only what is said in the gospels, but the manner of writing in them as well.

Reading Seneca's book on benefits, was an experience that awed me. Going into this, since his reputation was so variant, was only looking for surface similarities at first, when, the brilliance of his mind, and spirit rooted me to the spot, and all I can say is it is a privilege to have been so graced, and have received such a benefit, all these years fast forwarded on earth's dvd run, to have sat at his feet so to speak, taking notes.

Though many questions come out of his life, questions that pertain to the very formations of the Gospels and the truth about Christ.

For some reason with all of this in ambiguity, but seeing the true source of Inner Wisdom springing forth, while naturally using my discernment, weeding out the voice of the soldier or the male stoic/austere, balancing the information to the female energy so to speak, he is still remarkable.

The life and career of Seneca is very interesting and it depends on his character. The character of the man is very well entrenched in his works, he has integrity and strong values of goodness. What is less known is if how much he was forced to compromise these. And whether or not his so called vices: womanizing and ambition were true. Because people were set up all the time, power plays occurred with rapid circuit switches, even a sure thing could not be counted on, in those days, what seemed a steady path, was suddenly hijacked by those wishing power, and influence in affairs. Some of what happened with him was obviously set up, to set him aside and end his influence, and halt Christianity, which he had a hand in, just what role beyond probably shaping and authoring the gospels, I can't assess fully, trying to. At this point its a list of possibilities and probabilities.

But, a to whether or not he would submit to doing or "covering" for crimes, for the good of the state/country? Its possible. So how many affairs he had is probably far less than what has been said, as that is probably set up. Along with his part in any conspiracy against Nero, as well. He frequently asked for retirement and release so he was not of the mind to endure the psychopathy surrounding him.

en.wikipedia.org...

In 49, Claudius' fourth wife Agrippina the Younger had Seneca recalled to Rome to tutor her son Nero, then 12 years old; on Claudius' death in 54, she secured recognition of Nero, rather than Claudius' son Britannicus, as emperor.

From 54 to 62, Seneca acted as Nero's advisor, together with the praetorian prefect Sextus Afranius Burrus. Seneca's influence was said to be especially strong in the first year.[5] Many historians consider Nero's early rule with Seneca and Burrus to be quite competent. However, over time, Seneca and Burrus lost their influence over Nero. In 59 they had reluctantly agreed to Agrippina's murder, and afterward Seneca wrote a dishonest[vague] exculpation of Nero to the Senate.[6] With the death of Burrus in 62 and accusations[vague] of embezzlement, Seneca retired and devoted his time again to study and writing.

In 65, Seneca was caught up in the aftermath of the Pisonian conspiracy, a plot to kill Nero. Although it is unlikely that he conspired, he was ordered by Nero to kill himself. He followed tradition by severing several veins in order to bleed to death, and his wife Pompeia Paulina attempted to share his fate. Tacitus (writing in Book XV, Chapters 60 through 64 of his Annals of Imperial Rome, a generation later, after the Julio-Claudian emperors) gives an account of the suicide, perhaps, in light of Tacitus's Republican sympathies, somewhat romanticized. According to it, Nero ordered Seneca's wife to be saved. Her wounds were bound up and she made no further attempt to kill herself. As for Seneca himself, his age and diet were blamed for slow loss of blood, and extended pain rather than a quick death; taking poison was also not fatal. After dictating his last words to a scribe, and with a circle of friends attending him in his home, he immersed himself in a warm bath, which was expected to speed blood flow and ease his pain. Tacitus writes: “He was then carried into a bath, with the steam of which he was suffocated, and he was burnt without any of the usual funeral rites. So he had directed in a codicil of his will, even when in the height of his wealth and power he was thinking of life’s close.”

www.emersonkent.com...

This is what is evident in the real nature of Seneca, the spirit in is many works and writings, who was amiable, and gave gifts selflessly, striving to perfect his spirit, gaining fear over death and outcome, living with the peace of Budda and the wisdom of all the philosophers before him, Nero was his student, before he become Caesar, and for the first 5 years, they were considered good, due to Seneca's influence.

Tacitus, arguably the greatest historian, says that the working relationship between Seneca and Burrus "had unanimity rare for men in such powerful positions."

The results?

There was only good behavior on Nero's part, apart from the occasional night of bar hopping. And there were plenty of swell improvements in Roman life, society, and its administration. Seneca wrote Nero's speeches, and yes, Seneca became even wealthier. Young Nero could be very generous.

I intend to look into his writings in depth, and add to them the works of other well known philosopher's. And what they mean, applications for the way of virtue, balancing some of the more austere, stoical things that relay more to their experiences being male ones on warzone earth, that nonetheless shine because of this, for to have such wisdom, in spite of a certain machoism, and austere times of conquest, is to me a certain sign of Spirit, and the wellspring of truth that is universal and can be accessed by all. Though all the great works and histories have really lacked from the view point of BALANCE, for they miss the female energies which they need profoundly, but that is something born in mind and compensated for.

But before that, the part about Paul, Mark, Timothy, Seneca and Seneca's brother all need to be looked at because there are a host of possibilities here. I am a Christian, albeit a msytic, Quantum one, but only Goodness/God/Family will take the story of Christ from my spirit if it has been concocted, for there is no greater Love than depicted therein. And its less macho, more balanced, considering the times depicted. However, to various degrees, the Christ Consciousness, the Spirit of Peace and Love, and the morphing of something into more does not harm my faith in Goodness, Love or Family so this somewhat balances the list of possibilities that occurred to me.

reply to post by Unity_99


Thank you for the thoughtful introduction to Seneca. It was well worth reading, especially for the moral primer points which have a current value beyond any biographical information in my opinion. Yet another great from the past I'd like to spend some time to read about in the future. I'm so saddened to hear about the manner of his end though - how mad was Nero to order that ?? What happened to any residing friendship, after all, wasn't he fostered from a young age by Seneca? Lead cups huh?

This had me curious to see if Seneca College (Canada's largest) had anything to do with this fellow, but it turns out it was named after the Seneca Indians who inhabited the area.

But before that, the part about Paul, Mark, Timothy, Seneca and Seneca's brother all need to be looked at because there are a host of possibilities here.

I'm still curious as to what relations with Paul and Seneca were, and as it extends to the other apostles. Thus far, it's great you brought the matter to light, they were contemporary in their geography, timeframe, and moral focus. It leads to questioning what influence he had upon the early church, and possibly what influence the apostles had towards the empire, given that Seneca wrote Neros' speeches. I've only studied so much history, but of that, can't recall him mentioned before, or these importances being drawn. Good work!