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This Is Just For Those Who Oppose The OWS Protest!!

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posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
 
I've always been against corruption in government.
Just not against capitalism.

I'm also not a proponent for anarchy, socialism, communism etc.

If their message was just stop corruption, then I'd be all for it.

But when OWS gets endorsed by CAIR, Michael Moore, unions, socialism party, communism party, DNC, ACORN. . .. . well you get the point.


I am all with you there.

The OWS people just doesn't get all the things you pointed out.
They are just protesting for the sake of protesting.




posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by the4thhorseman

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by geryon
 


Well, all of that's true. Americans have and continue to live above and beyond their means. However, when it gets to the point to where you are just scraping by paycheck to paycheck, and that is all most people are doing,


I am scraping by paycheck to paycheck so I had enough. I cut out things in my life that were not necessary..Sat TV. Gym memberships..eating out as much. Next hopefully I will move to another house that has lower payments.

When things get tough we have to adapt, yes it sucks and it seems unfair, but in the end what does it matter anyway?



What you are doing is the first step to building your own wealth.
You are taking personal responsibility.
Keep working at it.
Anyone can do this.
Good luck to you.



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well, I've always said that socialism is a great idea that will never work. Why? HUMAN NATURE. Humans by their very nature tend to be selfish. Socialism is a form of extreme sharing. It basically views all property as communal.


No... Socialism is not all that.
What you describes, is Communism.



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by the4thhorseman

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by geryon
 


Well, all of that's true. Americans have and continue to live above and beyond their means. However, when it gets to the point to where you are just scraping by paycheck to paycheck, and that is all most people are doing,


I am scraping by paycheck to paycheck so I had enough. I cut out things in my life that were not necessary..Sat TV. Gym memberships..eating out as much. Next hopefully I will move to another house that has lower payments.

When things get tough we have to adapt, yes it sucks and it seems unfair, but in the end what does it matter anyway?



I hear you, I did the same thing, don't stop there, cutting things you don't need is always good but its even better to increase your money supply, you do both and you are sitting pretty, best of luck to you.


SM2

posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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right, socialism, while according to the Marx school of thought is a way point on the road to communism, is the work force owning the means of production. Socialism is, the workers owning the means of production. Which breaks down to no personal property, no private property or business. This goes against all things American. The cornerstone of America is private property.

I can not understand why people can not see what is right before their own eyes. This OWS IS a Marxist/socialist movement. Take off the rose colored blinder for a moment and look at what they promote. It is almost a play by play from the Communist Manifesto. Therefore, it is a Marxist/Socialist movement.



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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First off, let me say that ultimately, I do support the Occupy movement. But not without concerns..

Two things concern me, the first one being (as many have pointed out already) the heavy overtones of anti-capitalism I'm hearing from a majority of the protesters. While I'm sure their intentions are in the right place, they fail to realize that what has caused this mess is not capitalism, but Keynesian corporatism. They also fail to realize that the Fed facilitates this.

The other thing that concerns me is more hypothetical, and it's that we're (metaphorically) blowing our load of anger prematurely. The fact that Americans are taking to the streets is rather remarkable in itself, but we have to make sure we harness the efforts in a way that will actually be effective in the long term. I would hate to see all this hard work amount to an announcement of some vague reform from Obama, and months down the road when we realize once again that nothing has changed, people will think "well we already tried protesting.. that didn't really work"

But again, overall, I do support the protests, if only to remind the PTB that we do have a breaking point. It's been so long since we showed our true numbers, I'm sure it scares them. Which I guess could be good or bad.. we'll see



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well, I've always said that socialism is a great idea that will never work. Why? HUMAN NATURE. Humans by their very nature tend to be selfish. Socialism is a form of extreme sharing. It basically views all property as communal.



Well I don't know if it's a good idea but I agree with you that socialism will never work.
By indirectly suggesting that certain people should share their wealth and possessions, you should also prepare to expect all the unexpected consequences.

Socialism doesn't work because:
instead of sharing wealth to all, from top to bottom, you instead end up sharing poverty, from the bottom up.

Maybe that's the plan?
After all, since there may be many other elements at play here, Islam is the religion of the poor.



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by geryon

I hear you, I did the same thing, don't stop there, cutting things you don't need is always good but its even better to increase your money supply, you do both and you are sitting pretty, best of luck to you.


Thank you to you both. My wife and I are doing that now. I was blessed enough to take my tax return and with the help of my parents buy a small portable snow cone stand. We have been running it since May it wont make us rich but it keep the lights on and food on the table.

We do what we can and make the money we have work for us. That is what I don't get about the OWS movement especially where free education is concerned. If the school is too expensive don't go to that school..don't go just to say I WENT TO YALE, I WENT TO HARVARD.... it takes more than a good school to make you worth anything.

So instead of PARTYING through their own and parents money. They want to PARTY through the countries money instead. (Please bear in mind this is not a blanket statement there are great college kids out there)



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by MegasAlexandros
 


I am looking at your avatar... did you recieve some police brutality too? lol



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by MegasAlexandros
 




It should be endorsed by all people

No way! Those protesters are urging communism to sweep the land. That is something I will never support in any shape or form. In fact, I'll push back, really hard.



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
 


I agree with this OWS thing, I think it's a good thing for people to get out there and smell the roses. This current illusion we live in will come to an end in the coming generations, so it's best they learn a thing or two about the current system they all live under, sooner rather then latter.

I bet you they have learned much already.
Like the whole freedom of peaceful assembly and how far that will take them, or that supposed fact that we live in a capitalistic society, or especially democratic one.
Talk about some far out there ideas, really were do they get them?

Already they have become a little more enlightened and gotten a glimpse of what what there true enemies are, or at least they will eventually. I specially like it when they come onto forums even ATS or even better on the msm and argue against people who's job it is to spin anything and everything they say around on them.


Oh yes they are all learning much.



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
 


We have been saying why, you just weren't listening. We have said over and over it is because the OWS want direct democracy, more socialism, more entitlements, free college(after the rest of us have had to pay for ours), they stand for things like Universal health care (read:socialist), they want to get rid of corporations and capitalism. Most of their demands are just part of the Democrat Socialist platform. Democrats are de facto DSA now.

And everything Beezer said...
edit on 27-10-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by bacci0909
 


You need to stop making a distinction between Wall Street and the Fed...Wall Street IS the Fed


Look up the CVs of those at power at the Fed...



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by Vaxar
reply to post by MegasAlexandros
 


I am looking at your avatar... did you recieve some police brutality too? lol


No, he is a young, wannabe me,
but I think he had some sense knocked into him.

Don't think it worked.
edit on 27-10-2011 by Alxandro because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
 
I've always been against corruption in government.
Just not against capitalism.

I'm also not a proponent for anarchy, socialism, communism etc.

If their message was just stop corruption, then I'd be all for it.

But when OWS gets endorsed by CAIR, Michael Moore, unions, socialism party, communism party, DNC, ACORN. . .. . well you get the point.



what better way to discredit such a movement if it is hijcacked by people like the ones mentioned. instead of not supporting it help getting those jackasses out of the movement.



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
For those of you who disagree with the OWS'ers, I think it is incumbent upon you to explain why. The "silent majority" have spoken and most of them agree with the aims of the OWS...

Without pushing this to the edge of insanity, I will explain why I disagree with OWS's philosophies. Even though I agree with a certain amount of their complaints, I disagree with their overall resolutions.

I am a Libertarian.

Libertarians want less government regulations on everything, job opportunities, and to be rewarded for individual strength. Leads to individuals being rewarded for their strengths, which comes in the form of bonuses, low taxes, abundance of food, shelter, resources, and large healthy-successful families. Wealth stays within the family structure, so that future generations have a high rate of survival. If anything were to wipe out the government, Libertarian families will pass along their genes successfully. Why? Since they don't depend upon anyone to survive, Libertarians learn that self-reliance breeds freedom. Darwinism. Natural order of nature. = Strong Individualism.

'OWS' wants more government regulations on everything, free education, free healthcare, and to be rewarded for individual needs. Leads to individuals being taxed for others who want everything for free. Redistribution of wealth ideology. Wealth is taken from a hardworking family, and then it is given to someone who stays at home. Also leads to complacency. People get comfortable while using the government system, so they decided that work is not an overall priority. If anything were to happen to the government, these type of people will not be able to survive. Since they have relied on the establishment for necessities, all of their lives, their long-term family's survival and health rate will have diminished. Why? No one will be around to help them. = Socialism/Weak Individualism.

What 'OWS' overall misses is... money doesn't bring you happiness. Although you may be able to use it to buy materialistic items (capitalism), money cannot buy you pure affection from loved ones. As a matter of fact, based upon social psychology, most divorces are caused by the economic failure of one of the spouses. Mostly the failure of the male.

So... Do I envy the top 1%? No. Even though I would like them to lower the cost of their products and services, to make them more affordable, the wealth they have gained over the years has not necessarily made them happy. Why would I want to punish someone for ensuring the longevity of their family genetics?

'OWS' has done one thing positive for me... I now want to work harder, so I can become apart of that 1%. As long as I remember to volunteer my time (not through mandates and regulations), I will feel as though there is something meaningful to gain.
edit on 10/27/2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 05:25 PM
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I'm convinced the people who are against the movement are the same type that would take a job as a cop in riot gear in all these brutality videos. I always wonder what kind of mentality it takes to be a cop and this website gives great insight on that kind of person. The tin foil hat side of me says they are under intense brainwash or work for the PTB.

And I am still baffled that people think becoming a part of the 1% is always a result of hard work and the 99% is a result of laziness. This has to be brainwash. These billionaires wouldn't last a day as a Mexican who waits in front of Home Depot willing to break his back every day.
edit on 27-10-2011 by Trueminatti because: adding on...



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by Trueminatti
 

If you read the whole thread above yours, you would have kept everything within context.

Irony.



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well, I've always said that socialism is a great idea that will never work.


You are saying that capitalism works?

I think we need a mix of the two - socialism for basic human needs like food, shelter, and medical care, and capitalism for everything else.

Capitalism does a great job of providing cool gadgets - I doubt Socialism would produce an iPad. However we have masses of the poor who can't afford care - and this affects everyone really - we have addicts who want to get off drugs who can't afford treatment, we have people sick with viruses and anti-biotic resistant bacteria who can't get treatment early enough.

These folks end up in the emergency rooms, where we all end up paying higher medical bills to cover their care - it's orders of magnitude more expensive to treat someone in an e-room.

Then also, we get the extra crime from untreated addicts and the ever more resistant flesh eating bacteria from the untreated sick, that effects even the 1%.



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by Section31
 


Oh i read but chose to ignore it because I come from a different reality. I live in the poorest congressional district in the country. Ironically where the billion dollar profiteering home of Yankee stadium is. I choose to ignore most of what people say when "explaining" their views. I never complain about the 1% nor do I envy them. I simply state facts when speaking about them. My reality in this world, especially when I've only met an amount of people I can count on one hand in my neighborhood that would be on a site like this, is one that I know for a fact is not understood by any of you unless you are from here. The police and their supporters will never understand what goes on in my neighborhood. When the Gun Squad pulls me out of my vehicle with guns to my head because I stopped my car passed the white line on the street where I'm supposed to stop at a red light, without asking for even my license and warning me to then be careful for the "blue and whites", I am thankful that I don't have to spend the weekend at the precinct. They call it bullpen therapy and they use it against us all the time. I can't make that argument on this website because most have no clue this even happens. There are murders in my neighborhood that never make the news.

My point is that I'm jaded when it comes to the police and the truth is nobody cares what they do to the innocent and they may never care unless it's done in a more public manner. This is what I felt when I posted my comment, not responding to anybody's post because after years of reading this site I know for a fact that my reality is far removed from all of yours. So when I see people post their "reasons" I simply KNOW that there are just parts of life they know nothing about. I would never want to be a part of the 1%. I wouldn't dream of being a person who doesn't know the love that I have in my welfare filled neighborhood. I know what a person who wants money for milk for their baby goes through and the fact that they are looked at as society's garbage without any actual facts on the hardships that they don't even complain about yet keep quiet because the pain is too great to even voice.

YOU PEOPLE will never understand us because you watch TV or drive through our neighborhood ONCE and tell us everything about ourselves and what we need to do to fix our lives. You are actually convinced that we are too dumb or lazy to get out of our situations as if we weren't the ones living in this misery and don't go a day without trying to figure out how to get out of it. God forgive us if the pain is so great that we may want our food stamps so that we can have a big cookout to forget about our hardships that the 1% could never withstand.

Forgive my rant I barely even remember my point but the truth is the people who oppose OWS are the ones who are TRULY SPOILED in this life. You can't even fathom a situation where life backs you up against the wall. Where things actually aren't fair. To not understand the frustration in this country means to me that you have NEVER known the ugly side of America. It's not even worth explaining because you are BRAINWASHED. Out of sight out of mind. You can't convince me that my reality doesn't exist. My neighborhood is full of strong minded individuals who have survived more than your worst day of your life on a daily basis. I have been beaten, jailed, tricked, and fined by this country and been held accountable for every last thing that has been done to me as if I willingly asked for it. Through it all I have been patient and opposed violence. The rage in me wants to see you all try to live my life and watch you complain daily. You are evil and you don't even know it.

I will never go downtown and join them because I know how this story ends. But I root for them and hope they can change my mind.

People ask what is OWS really about? It's about EVERYTHING! If you're upset McDonalds doesn't use real meat then let it be about that too! To hell with people who can't understand the simple difference in caring or not caring about another human life whether you know them or not. The 1% are pitiful human beings. I'm done.





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