Why I Support A Violent Revolution

reply to post by haarvik

It's about time that there were violent protests,now don't get me wrong,if there was any chance that taking the route of peaceful protest would produce results,then great,however,this is an increasingly naive viewpoint.

We have seen time and time again,in many countries,how the authorities respond to protest,they need a taste of their own medicine if any future protest is to be taken seriously,lets face it all of the occupy protests are being increasingly held in contempt by the authorities,if they were to turn bloody,maybe they would take more notice.

If a number of the bankers who caused the financial mess that we are in ended up on a slab,that would be far more effective than even 10,000 protestors marching peacefully through a city centre.

reply to post by DarthMuerte


I haven't read the whole thread but this person nailed it.
thanks,
zoo

Tanks. We The People Need tanks. We need 5 or 6 tanks around the square where the protesters are and in between armies of trained ex military. It would be understood that these tanks and mercs are there to protect the people from unlawful harm from anyone, police included.

Look at the threads on ATS right now. There are many showing violence by the cops even shooting rubber bullets in citizens faces and tear gas. Unprovoked. These are NOT the police I want my tax dollars paying for !

I'd like to hear from some cops who worked an Occupy rally and saw or contributed to the violence. Give us your story, and if we are wrong you can tell us about it.

I double dare any Occupy cop to answer. They will not, because they are cowards.

Go ahead, prove me wrong. Lets discuss this.

As a cop, do you stand up for citizens protecting other citizens from corrupt cops? Have you been ordered to do something you knew in your heart was wrong? How do you really feel about all this.

I'll sit back and wait for your answers.

I once heard a guy trying to break up a fight say "You can't shake hands with a fist".

Well I have news for him and the rest of you pacifist that think you can win independence from tyranny with smiles and hugs, good luck when the bullets start flying, because you will be the first ones hitting the ground bleeding. Violence is as old as peace, and you can't have one without the other.

To take back our country through violence is unfathomable, and, quite frankly, juvenile.
Look at it from a militaristic/strategic standpoint. The US military is simply too strong and numerous and well-equipped. They provide for our soldiers, so don't think for a second that the majority of those in active duty will turn a sympathetic eye. They believe our government IS the embodiment of freedom, and will see a violent uprising as a detriment to those freedoms that they signed up to protect. Don't think that if we turn to violence, our government won't issue martial law or other extreme measures to quell a violent uprising, that is, if there are enough violent protesters to catch the government's eye, and police forces/national guard forces are overencumbered. In a sense, violent upheaval will only perpetuate our loss of freedoms in this country.

I'd hate to damper the spirit of revolution, but the hole is too deep, and we are way in over our head. We simply must wade it out, and let our big government follow the path it seeks. There are always times to revolt, and this is NOT OUR TIME. Give peace a chance, and don't fall into the spider's trap. Maybe 50 years from now, all will be well, and we'll look back to today and say, "what were we thinking...".

Seriously though, when one looks at the violent uprisings of Libya and Egypt, rebels had EQUAL WEAPONS to match those in power, not to mention help from other Big Brother countries through NATO and other possible black ops missions. Where would WE find the help and arms to quell those in power? We wouldn't, couldn't. Well, I'm sure FPS RUSSIA could help . We preach peace and unity and oneness, but violence will only propel hate and sadness and fear and death.

More food for thought....
What if our government through mass media and internet mediums PLANTED the seed of revolution in those arab countries? To possibly prove a point? To show that when alleged dictators are overthrown, relgious governments will arise (not saying the same for us)? That those inadequate to govern/manage a democratic nation will ultimately rise to power (yep)? The world is a our backyard, everyone's. The great eye of the east is exponentially bigger. Our nation IS a democratic nation. Those in power DO have the best interests of the people, although their morality/ethic may be a little skewed. THEY MAY ROB OUR MATERIALISTIC FREEDOMS, OUR FREEDOM TO "DO WHAT WE WANT", BUT THEY CAN NEVER ROB OUR FREEDOM OF THOUGHT. That is precisely what makes this country great: Our freedom to philosophize about the world around us, about our inner self, to figure everything out for OURSELVES. This is something that MSR (main stream religion) does not quite grasp...they simply feast on fear of death, and rob us of our own inner enlightenment through deep thought...

I realize my thoughts are going in a thousand different directions, but there is simply too much to discuss, to many parallels, et cetera, that it would take days of discussion to disect everything that's going on. I like old fashioned bonfire philosophical discussions.

Simply put, keep the status quo and vote for representatives that you believe are in the best interests of the people. Run for office, protest in politics.
PEACEFULL PROTEST FTW. Atleast our democratic voices WILL be heard through peacefull, RESPECTABLE means.

reply to post by 2Isee3rd


I am an Iraq Combat vet, and served in the marine corps for 4 years, and I really think your viewpoints on how the American Armed forces would respond is WAY off. I can tell you personally, that I would never turn my gun on American citizens protecting their rights. We took an oath to defend this country, its people, and the constitution, not the American Government. Any threat foreign and domestic isn't limited to radical extremist groups, a government can be a threat to the rights and freedoms of any citizen, in any country.

reply to post by beautyndissonance


I respect your service greatly. I have a brother in the Marines and quite frankly, I believe there is no greater sacrifice. What rank did you achieve if I might ask? MOS?

A military response to maintain order is what I was referring to. A violent protest would exacerbate problems. Violence promotes violence. Clashing with police is simply clashing with people just like you. Military will be involved if things get out of hand. Soldiers will follow orders.

The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

"the oldest trick in the book"



so dont fall for it!

Originally posted by beautyndissonance
reply to post by 2Isee3rd

 

I am an Iraq Combat vet, and served in the marine corps for 4 years, and I really think your viewpoints on how the American Armed forces would respond is WAY off. I can tell you personally, that I would never turn my gun on American citizens protecting their rights. We took an oath to defend this country, its people, and the constitution, not the American Government. Any threat foreign and domestic isn't limited to radical extremist groups, a government can be a threat to the rights and freedoms of any citizen, in any country.

As a British veteran of Desert Storm,I can concur with you from a British perspective,I do not know many members of the armed services who would turn their guns on those protesting for either their rights or freedoms,those appaling scenes from your country of the police firing a baton round into the face of a serving soldier would do a hell of a lot to reinforce that viewpoint amongst our military.

reply to post by haarvik


I used to harbor similar thoughts on the subject. even here on ATS, I pointed out that Gandhi and Martin King only achieved what they did because of the implicit use of force. That they could only get to where htye were going by saying "you can have us nice, or you can have us mean."

Perhaps that's true, even still. However, there's a key word there: implicit.

I can watch films of men and women and children in the south, begin beaten, torn at by dogs, blasted down with hoses. Murdered with fire, with bombs, with rope and chains and knives and bullets. I can see even more brutality delivered thirty years before at the hands of british officers of the Raj.

And I see that the people so battered, so bloodied and broken kept coming, with empty hands. What broke hte resolve of their oppressors was the question, "If this is how resilient they are without fighting back... what might a war with them be like?" And when you think of it... that's a terrifying thought. if these men and women can take THIS abuse and keep coming with peace on their lips, then... well, how do you fight that?

How many can you kill, before you die of exhaustion? How many can you jail, before the jails burst? How much can you litigate before the courts just freeze?

There is more power in the empty hand than in a hand clenched around a weapon. An open hand can do many things; a fist can only do one thing.

I hope all the "Peaceful Protest Only!" people are also secretly people willing to defend themselves when it goes down, because when this gets all bloody it's time to give fighting back a chance, and have peace later.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Nice sentiment. Now, why dont you go out there and prove that your own warped ideology (of brainwashed serfs) works, by simply thrusting your face against a nice warm hearted riot cops fist or rubberbullet. I am sure you will appreciate the feeling of waking up in an ambulance, on your way to the hospital, proud that you proved to the rest of the ppl on this board how easy it is to resist tyranny by throwing your body against batoons, rubber bullets and soon, sound wave canons and other nice TPTB riot candy.

Morons like you are needed. Serve your Master. He needs the kinds of you in this dire time when the poor trash out there are threatening his well earned (stolen) fortunes.

s+f

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
And play into the PTB's hands?

No thank you.

I'm sorry, but I know that they want you to get violent, so they can proclaim you enemy combatants and resistance fighters and take away your rights and throw you in jail, or worse kill you.

All those police in riot gear are awaiting just one guy to throw a rock or pull a gun.

So you know we are dealing with criminals and your answer is to hand over your wallet and freedoms each time they come to mug you ?

Sitting back and doing nothing is no longer an option and it's no good playing it the legal way when the rules are being changed by the day in faviour of the elite and Youtube is being forces, or wants to remove vids of people being beaten by the police.

Whats next, will it be an illegal to talk about the police like it is to question the number of jewish people killed in WWII

Originally posted by 2Isee3rd
reply to post by beautyndissonance

 

I respect your service greatly. I have a brother in the Marines and quite frankly, I believe there is no greater sacrifice. What rank did you achieve if I might ask? MOS?

A military response to maintain order is what I was referring to. A violent protest would exacerbate problems. Violence promotes violence. Clashing with police is simply clashing with people just like you. Military will be involved if things get out of hand. Soldiers will follow orders.

edit on 27-10-2011 by 2Isee3rd because: (no reason given)

I was a Sergeant, 8152, stationed pretty much my entire enlistment at Camp Pendleton attached to CLB-1 CLC-111. Two tours In Iraq in the Al Anbar province with my main AO in Haditha.

What people don't realize is it does not have to come to violence. However, if they perceive the threat of violent revolution, the fear itself may be the catalyst that motivates them to correct the wrong doings of the last 30 or 40 years. Until they feel the pressure, it will only be rhetoric to pacify a populace they see as passive.

reply to post by 2Isee3rd


What you don't realize is that the majority of the military will never take up arms against it's citizens if they are fighting for their rights, and the constitution. You take a poll of active/inactive military I will bet you that over 75% of them would support the populace doing just that. They swear an oath to protect a document, not a person or group. They swore an oath to uphold what our forefathers died and fought for. They swore an oath to protect the citizens of this nation and their rights. To think they would disregard that oath is simply not giving them credit to understand what our constitution means.

In addition, with the aggression our leaders have shown in the recent past, I would wager that a revolution starting here would have the microscopic attention of ever other nation on earth. The first time our military is ordered to fire upon it's citizens, there would be a plethora of other countries coming to the citizens aid. There are a number of countries that are our allies, that would love nothing more than to have our governments hypocrisy thrown in their face. Make no mistake, if violence does come to the revolution, we will not be alone in our cause.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by 2Isee3rd

 

What you don't realize is that the majority of the military will never take up arms against it's citizens if they are fighting for their rights, and the constitution. You take a poll of active/inactive military I will bet you that over 75% of them would support the populace doing just that. They swear an oath to protect a document, not a person or group. They swore an oath to uphold what our forefathers died and fought for. They swore an oath to protect the citizens of this nation and their rights. To think they would disregard that oath is simply not giving them credit to understand what our constitution means.

In addition, with the aggression our leaders have shown in the recent past, I would wager that a revolution starting here would have the microscopic attention of ever other nation on earth. The first time our military is ordered to fire upon it's citizens, there would be a plethora of other countries coming to the citizens aid. There are a number of countries that are our allies, that would love nothing more than to have our governments hypocrisy thrown in their face. Make no mistake, if violence does come to the revolution, we will not be alone in our cause.

I think you will find those allies sold out to the banks, and the UN would send in troops... to aid the USA vs. it's people. It's worse than you think. The people of the world will not weep for us like you imagine. Since they're going to go through it as well. Plus, let's face it, we've been bombing people so long there's a lot of rightfully placed bad blood against the USA and it's people who smile and play while their government murders millions.

People calling for violence are irresponsible.It is also almost criminal.Who do you want to hurt? The Police? The Army? Politicians? The wealthy elite? Violence is not the answer.We need to convince people with ideas. Change peoples minds.There are still alot of people that dont agree with the protests.We need to convince them.I think the movement needs to register as a political party so they can have legal gatherings with microphones,speakers, where people can be heard,ideas put forward,someone needs to fuse all the energy together in something people can all agree on.Ron Paul is awesome but I think somewhere at one of the protests is are leaders.I think the will emerge and concentrate all that building energy.People that consider themselves 'conservative' seem to need the most convincing If the movement cant make themselves more attractive to 'consrevatives' than Bachmann,Perry, Cain or Romney then it deserves to fail.I think it should be trying to find common ground with the Tea Party because they are the key.Some Tea Party Patriots already support it.They have been hijacked and have no true leader.If we put our differences aside and agree on some things,which is alot,the movement would be unstoppable. More people need to agree on change and what the change will mean for them.The movement should gain hope from Ron Paul.His is being ignored by mainstream media yet his support is massive.The Movement can beat them at there own game.It will be much more satisfying that way.

reply to post by theovermensch


You know what. Sitting back while the world is murdered by madmen is evil. Pretending you can win the hearts of "the people" so that they can take back their government peacefully is a dream, a nice one, and I would like that too. It's just not reality.

I think people have been fooled to forget that Good men can use violence when it is forced upon them. It has been forced upon humanity for decades, and yet, here we are. Good should not equal "non-violent". Righteous wrath is sometimes needed, like now.