Veteran shot in the face by rubber bullet at Occupy Oakland protests

Originally posted by Common Good
I think its high time for the State Militias to get involved.

Our military is obviously spread throughout the world fighting Obamas wars, so they wont be much good
with these protests since they have spread all over.

Call me crazy.
But this Police Abuse sickens me, and it needs to end.

I wonder if we could coordinate the State Militias to show up when the protesters march. That would be a great show of force for the People. I would think militias have been waiting for an opportune time to flex their muscle.

Originally posted by alienreality
I'm worried that when police start seriously abusing people, (like now), that some people nursing their rubber bullet injuries will be looking upon the police from a 3rd story window somewhere using a sniper rifle..

why are you worried? are you worried some jerk of a pig might get whats coming to him? really? I agree whole hearted with that and am not worried a bit. enough taking the abuse from the cops. obviously they do not protect and serve the people like they are supposed to. the day is coming when we all will finally wake up, and fight fire with fire, and throw these criminals in the fed out, along with their gestapo police force...

Originally posted by TheMindWar
Im sorry, but its time to start fighting back. The constitution demands people take up arms and I thinks thats what they should now do. Its obvious that TPTB dont care at all about constitutional rights, and that the only thing we have to look forward to is more violence from the criminal ruling classes. Its time to remove them from power IMHO.

I've been saying it myself. when are we going to finally do what is necessary to protect this country and the people in it. TPTB arent following the rules, and last I knew, there are no rules in a fight. and thats exactly what we are in is a fight.

Originally posted by TheOneElectric
Well, you know what happens next:

The police force have "lost" the moral highground. If protestors continue in peace, then they will have better footing for when the next push comes.

ya, and when the second push comes, the people should stand up, and maul these cops like a bunch of rabid pit bulls, the pigs would never see that one coming.........................I just now watched the video, absolutely sick. I need to get off of this thread before I find an in box full of removed posts, but ya, you get the drift. FTP

Originally posted by Anusuia
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

 

what happened to the soldiers engaed in the Maylai massacre ? Im curious to know if they do go insane from the guilt.

These police people of today are different from you guys . These ones dont have any brain left . They are twisted beyond help. They have been reprogrammed to be beasts of the worst kind. They are not what we call human anymore . That part of them has ben removed from their minds .

There was a full confessional documentary just recent years on the soldiers whom took part in the MyLai Massacre. You can find it on Youtube if you want to know more. Although everyone of them was not charged in court for they were only following orders, 2 officers were the only ones whom were sent to Leavenworth.

They returned back home and thought to put everything behind them. But unfortunately...it was not possible. Many were haunted by what they had done and found no peace...killing unarmed women and children cold bloodedly, no matter how much the green machine taught them that they were only performing national service and obeying orders.

They years did not spare them either, as these young men matured and knew more about the circumstances that led to the war, espacially from the detailed truth from the 'Pentagon Papers', published by a wikileaks forefather.

Many went insane, some depended heavily on mind drugs to keep calm. But the most striking testimonial was one whom came home, and thought he could put it all behind him and focus on his family. But one day, his young son was killed by a stray bullet from a gang war in the streets, exactly the way how he shot a young mother carrying her child pleading for mercy from him during the massacre.

He couldn't deal with it, and with tears in his eyes as he recounted the pain and regrets over the massacre he went through, and the mental drugs cocktails to keep him sane today. Because of his remorse and mental torture, I wept for him and hope one day he may find absolution. Forgiveness is not mine to give, but our common Creator to him.

Just as I weep for the police forces whom had hurt and harm peaceful protestors crying out to be heard by their leaders in OWS. They may publically proclaimed bravado, but in their quiet moments, there can be no peace, from the pain on hurting unarmed innocents.

Why? Why? All these to protect the selfish elites to retain their wealth and power? No man lives forever. We came with nothing and will leave with nothing. It's only what we do in between that matters, to be elevated to the pedestal forever or be spat upon for generations.

Why can't the elites see what they had done to the masses for centuries, and continue to do for more centuries if we the masses don't stop them today. and watch ourselves and the next generations suffer even more....the rich gets richer while the poor and middle classes gets eradicated...why, why, why? Is sharing a sin, a crime, a perversion? .......

Originally posted by Chance321
reply to post by Vitchilo

 

Just seen the video. Where's the vet? And where's the shot of him getting hit in the face on purpose by the rubber bullet? All I seen was poor camera work and some guy/girl? being carried.

"Scott Olsen is in a "critical condition", in Highland hospital, a spokesman for the hospital has just confirmed to me.

(We already knew he was there from the accounts below, but this is the first official confirmation).

I've just spoken to Keith Shannon, roommate of Scott Olsen, the Iraq veteran who is in hospital after apparently having been hit in the head by a police projectile.

Shannon said doctors told him Olsen has a "skull fracture and swelling of the brain"

from

www.guardian.co.uk...

I somehow think that this is going to add gasoline to the fire, but I'll try to be as delicate as possible in my reply.

So far with all the Oakland police videos being showed, I have yet to see anything BEFORE the tear gas and riot police moved in. I have seen no video of Oakland citizens peacefully protesting with police quietly watching.

I have seen videos of the Oakland PD cars being vandalized, and I have but one question to the anti-police haters out there:

Do we have the full story?

Don't get me wrong, I am all for the OWS protests, I side 150% with ending the Fed and Putting the Banksters on trial, dissolving their bank accounts and depositing it into social security or some other public trust as payback for decades of oppression.

I do however have an interesting perspective on Oakland because I lived In Fairfield, CA for many years and Traveled to Oakland on a regular basis for my dad's work. The majority of people that I have met from Oakland are not peaceful people, they are just itching for a fight, and they look for any excuse to do it.

I can not take a stance in either direction concerning these videos, but I will say that while I am appalled at the idea that the police would do this unprovoked, I don't see any justification that they have done so at this point in time. If we have some ATS Oakland Residents, please chime in with your own videos and experiences, otherwise I'll leave the flaming of the Police and corruption up to the protestors in that area.

I do applaud the protestors that i've seen so far in the videos for reacting calmly despite having riot weapons used on them. They chose to retreat and regroup instead of pick up the nearest rock and fight fire with fire. I just hope that this incident isn't a precursor to what we all fear will happen in the future, but if it is, then perhaps it's great that everyone has an iphone or Android to record it.

Even though the media is censored and bias, you can't hide everyone all the time, the truth will get out. I however will wait until I see more evidence before making a snap judgement based on what appears to be a defensive reaction by the police.

(For all those anti-police members out there....I am not for or against the police, only the truth and both sides of the story before I pass judgement)

That is my 2 cents......

King

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Yep state militias and armed veterans should go in front of protests with guns and see if the cops keep acting like tough guys.

I bet they wouldn't.

Good Lord man, I have NEVER heard of a WORSE idea in my LIFE! If anyone had drawn firearms in Oakland last night, that whole area would have been FLOODED with cops raring to fight in a matter of 10 minutes...maybe a lot LESS.

Oakland Police Department sent out a Multi-County Tactical Alert for mutual aid to the surrounding cities a few hours prior to the first tear gas being popped. That was what a military man would call a 'warning order'. If that had been followed up by a legitimate cry for help from OPD, the scene was already set for HUNDREDS of police units from all over the greater SF area to converge right there in the time it took to roll in, code 3 with the pedals mashed to the floor board.

How many people actually watched the live feed? Not clips...not todays highlights..but the ongoing thing across the entire evening? I did, and I know a couple others around here did as well. The protesters were NOT babes in the woods on this. Not by a LONG shot.

If they'd approached the police lines and sat down, peacefully told the cops to stick it up their tail pipes and just refused to move....any force taken against them would have brought outrage from coast to coast. However, what ACTUALLY happened was the crowd repeatedly forming a tight mass and slowly but steadily moving right to the barriers, despite warnings not to engage the Police.

I watched 5 tear gas responses and ALL OF THEM came only after the protesters came within a couple feet, as a group, of the last barriers that stood between maybe 50 cops and a few hundred people in the street...who were anything but happy or easy going.

Did the police over-react? I'm really not sure...It was so close on that line of what is right and what isn't that I can't say without having been on the street personally....but the fact that doubt even exists is the whole problem here. Sympathy won't come from the public while OWS behavior leaves the Police response an open debate as to whether it was justified or not.

Meet force with PEACEFUL DISOBEDIENCE. Don't menace or threaten the cops...EVER. Don't even crowd them to make them feel like things MIGHT just end with their positions being over-run and their families having to cope without their ever coming home again. The cops WILL react violently to restore order at ANY COST. That is their job and what society pays them to do. Don't FEED the reasons they can do it under cover of justification.

Peace and change through a just cause and moral high ground....NOT force and anarchy. We need to keep our heads if this is to succeed at even the smallest level. (Hops off my soapbox)

the cops and all there back up would have lost the battle but won the war...If the scenario would have played out that way think about this:

1. the police number in the hundreds right?
2. the protestors number in the thousands right?
3. for every cop there are at least 10 street hardened gangsters (many tougher, bigger and stronger than the cops) armed and waiting for something like that to green light a 48hr cop kill..

side note:
while on the dark side (govt) I read intel which spell out a very dark plan by a few groups..AB (aryan brotherhood), 1%'rs (outlaw bikers), hammerskins and their ilks to in a martial law situation effectively slaughter every state and local cop within days.. They have the names, addresses, families homes, etc.. to carry it out. and that was in 2002..

I learned this while acting as a federal officer in a Border Tactical unit in San Diego (coast guard, atf, fbi, customs, dea, county, state, city police, border patrol).. so the info was legit.

Not to mention the latin criminal org.;s..

Originally posted by rebeldog
reply to post by TinkerHaus

 

Ive had enough of your WEAKNESS!!!

Are you mentally capable to understand the difference between an ATTACK and SELF DEFENSE??

clearly you are either a suck-up, an extremely cowardly individual, or completely IGNORANT in relation to American History..
Tell me Einstein, if someone is violently attacking you would you go fetal and run your piehole?

Unprovoked Violence is wrong...Responding to violence with violence is SURVIVAL...

I can't believe how well the liberal Public Fool System, under the Dept of Indoctrination has warped you mind..

edit on 26-10-2011 by rebeldog because: spelling

You are right rebeldog, I was U2U'ed by someone that I was trying to incite violence, and I (shot) back with "no, I'm inciting self defense." if someone cracks me on the head with a baton, then I have no choice but to defend myself at that point because that person is coming after me, hitting me, attacking me, hurting me, I hope more people on here understand that. we don't have to lay down in the fetal position and take this, we have rights, we can hit them back if we are being beaten. PERIOD!!!!!!!! I give a lot of credit to all of the protesters who have kept it peaceful to this point, because I know I dont have patience like that. But when they start gassing people, and firing into crowds of un armed people, I dont care if its with rubber bullets or what. two inches lower into that mans eyeball and he would be dead. If someone is willing to take that chance that they might kill you, then come on, we cant just sit idle and take that....................

reply to post by TheMindWar


I get very riled up when I see protests, like the ones we are all watching, and when they turn violent becuase the authorities want to impose thier will on the protestors.

What good would it do to act in a violent way towards the authorities? Any violent retaliation will only make the violence from the authorities worse and justify their violent actions.


When I see the actions of the authorities and how they treat the peaceful protestors it makes me seek change in how we are to be treated as human beings. These changes may be a longer process but I think its sure to have a longer lasting effect on policies for dealing with peaceful protest which in my eyes is an inalienable right that we all have as human beings.

Real change can occur, just like with Gandhi and Martin Luther King, when everyone see's the obvious abuse of authority and the use of violence towards a peaceful protest. The true colors of whoever is in charge is clearly shown when the violence is impimented without real provocation. If violence is reciprocated, the true colors are hazy and not clear open to interpretation for example they were protecting themselves, or you see the protestors were violent and the police needed to control them.

Violence begets violence...

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
reply to post by backinblack

 

Why would they need to accept it? Well WE need to accept it because it's inevitable.

Yes we have a right to peacefully assemble - does this mean we'll automatically get it?
Those who oppress are those who write and enforce the laws. That's why we need to accept that it's a reality that protesting in such large numbers, "occupying" town squares and city parks, screaming in the face of LEOs is going to bring retaliation.

We have accept it because it's REALITY. No matter what our Constitution says. Is it right? Definitely not. Is it reality? Well, we wouldn't be having this conversation if it wasn't.

You need to accept that this is inevitable, and that the change we are calling for cannot be obtained through violence.

ETA: I wonder how many of those calling for violent retaliation against police attacks have actually been out to an Occupy protest. It's easy to sit behind your desk and call for violent revolution, it's a different story when you're out there trying to accomplish something and you realize what violence on the part of protesters would mean.

ETA #2 - this is why I'm calling for protest that would be physically effective without being violent. Like refusing to pay our taxes. Striking. Shutting down economic centers through refusal to take part in a corrupt system, rather that trying to violently overthrow it. These will be the tools that bring about ACTUAL change. What you're calling for will bring only pain.

edit on 26-10-2011 by TinkerHaus because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-10-2011 by TinkerHaus because: (no reason given)

I agree. They need to pick a day and a company and then NOBODY who agrees that the corporations are out of control patronizes that company. It should be a company that people have legitimate gripes with (I am hearing something about Nov. fifth and BOA, yes?) this is the kind of thing that will show them real numbers. Post a company and a day on FB. Give a reason why not to patronize. Let this happen to five companies: no business at all for their selected days. See who starts being willing to talk about improving things then.
If they don't come around, same five: two days in a row.
then three...
If we work together to simply NOT do something, our absence will be felt far more keenly than our presence ever was.
They only see us in terms of potential revenue, vote with your wallet. That's how they do it...

We are still allowed to not spend money right? So let's NOT spend it in force. I say start with business instead of taxes. You can face reprecussions for failure to pay taxes. Failure to buy widget X? Not so much.

its huge on the top of the page on huffingtonpost but havent seen it on any other MSM websites yet

reply to post by Vitchilo


Here is a little more on this brave young Marine veteran

Olsen's roommate, Keith Shannon, 24, told The Huffington Post that Olsen is still in the emergency room.

"Right now, he's under sedation," Shannon said. "He walked into the hospital." But soon after his arrival, Shannon said, doctors found that there was swelling in Olsen's brain and put him under. He did not get a chance to talk to his friend. "They are waiting for a neurosurgeon to examine him to see if he needs surgery or not," Shannon said. If he doesn't need an operation, he'll be moved to the intensive care unit.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

There was a Navy vet there as well. He held the Constitution in one hand and "Veterans for Peace" flag in the other. He was tear gassed shortly after the below photo was taken:

reply to post by Talltexxxan


That wool blanket advice is good . So tell me if you had a house insulated with wool then would that do the same thing ? blocking out mircowaves and elfs . and what if you wrapped your smart meters in wool blankets , would that stop them emitting harmfull rays .
and if I wraped my router in one would it stop the router being able to function ?

Anything that stops elfs is good news for me .
Oh and yes very interesting thoughts about the planned public upheavals . Seems valid point if they were making all that stuff . So nice that people are so willing to commit acts of war against their own people .
Its is a world without boundries now.

Citizen terrorizing citizens. Or who is the most heavily armed . It amazes me to see the mindset of the people in general here and other forums as they are simply a cross section of a peoples mentality , how easy they feel about attacking others within their own territories .

That disgusts me.
And I don't mean because he is a veteran.
Above all else he is a Person!

Originally posted by rebeldog

the cops and all there back up would have lost the battle but won the war...If the scenario would have played out that way think about this:

1. the police number in the hundreds right?
2. the protestors number in the thousands right?
3. for every cop there are at least 10 street hardened gangsters (many tougher, bigger and stronger than the cops) armed and waiting for something like that to green light a 48hr cop kill..

side note:
while on the dark side (govt) I read intel which spell out a very dark plan by a few groups..AB (aryan brotherhood), 1%'rs (outlaw bikers), hammerskins and their ilks to in a martial law situation effectively slaughter every state and local cop within days.. They have the names, addresses, families homes, etc.. to carry it out. and that was in 2002..

I learned this while acting as a federal officer in a Border Tactical unit in San Diego (coast guard, atf, fbi, customs, dea, county, state, city police, border patrol).. so the info was legit.

I can't argue the point you make there. Yes, the police can be over-run in any of these situations. I do disagree about the ultimate outcome on the same night. If I read you right, you're saying the crowd could expect to be victorious, even for the night....I don't see that as a likely outcome. However, they sure could stomp down the line of police we saw last night and in moments...before backup could arrive. The retaliation would be brutal, bloody and absolutely without precedent in U.S. History, if those 50 or so Officers became 50 'killed in the line of duty'.

I'm not even sure the POLICE would be the ones doing much of it, as the nation has 10's of millions of good, decent people who are also just about fed up with the Government nonsense, but won't tolerate real world actions like that from a mob. Every OWS camp in the nation would have very good reasons to nervously look around their perimeters and wonder if they could safely sleep that night or any other, again.

As much as I'd love to laugh off your message...I can't. Your logic and thought process is based in solid expectation for what may happen if one of these gets totally out of control. I don't even want to think about your second part, because I have little trouble believing that either. Our nation is FULL of small groups and gangs with scores to settle and all the energy and weaponry to do it, if only given a short period of anarchy where they could act without fear of consequence.

Lets hope this movement doesn't spark the fuse which leads to a blow out like that. I'm not sure we'll ever get America back the way we know it today if control slips to that extent...even for a moment.

Originally posted by mileysubet
Violence begets violence...

"blah blah blah", did anyone else hear anything?
I'm tired of hearing this from people.
how do you think the revolution was won?
how do you think the Nazi's were defeated?
heck, even Tibetan monks have fighting monks in a monastery.
so please stop with those little comments that everyone should be good, and not hit back, don't push and shove in line, etc. etc. etc. we have been peacefully protesting, and getting what for it?
oh ya, beat, arrested, tricked and then arrested, gassed, shot at (even if it is with rubber bullets)
people are getting fed up with being kept down by TPTB.
We have already showed them that we can protest and not be violent, even when they are violent to us. Ya, violence begets violence, no duh!!! thats common sense right? What do you think happens when a criminal attacks an innocent person, and the innocent person shoots the criminal dead, violence begets violence right? RIGHT! That person defended their self right? But afterwards you don't see this innocent person running around shooting all of these other innocent people right? You can still use violence in a necessary way, sorry, but it's reality, and the world we live in, You still follow? Violence was necessary at that moment for peace to continue. The cops keep abusing protesters and if they (protesters) decide to stand up, and fight back we're in the wrong? violence will always beget violence, in some way shape or form. Look at all these other countries that stood up against their leaders, and government, fought back, protested, and won. We all praised them for doing so, then when it happens to our country, to a government that is known to be wrong, cruel, greedy, corrupt, we are in the wrong? These people want nothing but peace in their country, but they had to fight for it didn't they? I hope you will think before you write three little words again, please.

The police are failing. Right now it seems as though their job is to incite violence, and to do anything to prevent the growth of this movement. I'm proud that the protesters are remaining peaceful, they know this is too important to retaliate, despite how tough that must be considering the police have been nothing but unreasonable and unlawful for the most part.

Obviously not every protester is remaining peaceful, but the vast majority are, where as the majority of cops are abusing their power. I'm not violent, but it would be extremely difficult to stand by and watch "public servants" do what they're doing to our brothers and sisters, despite the numbers, kudos to them.

Originally posted by gunshooter

Originally posted by mileysubet
Violence begets violence...

"blah blah blah", did anyone else hear anything?
I'm tired of hearing this from people.
how do you think the revolution was won?
how do you think the Nazi's were defeated?
heck, even Tibetan monks have fighting monks in a monastery.
so please stop with those little comments that everyone should be good, and not hit back, don't push and shove in line, etc. etc. etc. we have been peacefully protesting, and getting what for it?
oh ya, beat, arrested, tricked and then arrested, gassed, shot at (even if it is with rubber bullets)
people are getting fed up with being kept down by TPTB.
We have already showed them that we can protest and not be violent, even when they are violent to us. Ya, violence begets violence, no duh!!! thats common sense right? What do you think happens when a criminal attacks an innocent person, and the innocent person shoots the criminal dead, violence begets violence right? RIGHT! That person defended their self right? But afterwards you don't see this innocent person running around shooting all of these other innocent people right? You can still use violence in a necessary way, sorry, but it's reality, and the world we live in, You still follow? Violence was necessary at that moment for peace to continue. The cops keep abusing protesters and if they (protesters) decide to stand up, and fight back we're in the wrong? violence will always beget violence, in some way shape or form. Look at all these other countries that stood up against their leaders, and government, fought back, protested, and won. We all praised them for doing so, then when it happens to our country, to a government that is known to be wrong, cruel, greedy, corrupt, we are in the wrong? These people want nothing but peace in their country, but they had to fight for it didn't they? I hope you will think before you write three little words again, please.

Back when the revolution was won, there weren't televisions anyone could vegetate to. People weren't as controlled by outside forces. To this day, too many people cling to every MSM word, thus reporting mass violence by protesters would turn people off to the movement. If the MSM says protesters are bad, many will unfortunately believe it.