Veteran shot in the face by rubber bullet at Occupy Oakland protests

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by backinblack

 

Found this... looking for more

I'll be back. Lady friend wants me to come to bed. I think I may be too drunk to find it.

edit on 26-10-2011 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)

Well at least you now have a name..
It's really not to say it isn't just propaganda but it is worth keeping an eye on..

Also, if it's true that the police are even carrying these weapons and firing rubber bullets, then that's kind of scary and sure to inflame the situation IMO..

have yall noticed that the police are most violent in the states with the most restrictive gun laws.its time to hang politicians.occupy town hall.then the police paychecks wont go out.how loyal is an unpaid cop?

Eww, quite disturbing if you see the other vid:



The guy is shot from about 3-4m distance, which is against Police regulations (at least in europe),
when others come to help the guy on the ground, police fires another of these exploding teargascartouches
right next to the guy who is on the ground...

correction: police throws at least 3 ohter flashbangs..

It's crazy to me how many are calling for violent escalation.

This video proves nothing, and it should make ZERO difference whether it's a former marine or a proctologist being assaulted. The very idea that a veteran somehow holds some higher mythical status than your average citizen goes against everything OWS and it's subsidiaries are protesting for.

I don't think people truly understand what it could mean if the protests escalate. You're looking at marshal law. You're looking at a virtual civil war as an escalation will undoubtedly draw support to both sides. You're looking at potential riots, deaths, and a clamping down on the flow of information.

If escalation is inevitable, it cannot be on the side of the protesters without illegitimizing the movement. The second a group of protesters turn violent, or militia shows up, or military personnel threaten police in any way, we have lost any semblance of control we may have once had.

This is only slightly on topic, and I apologize.. But I see so many people on ATS just aching for violence and it frightens me. You cannot obtain a peaceful reality on a violent path. By protesting you are accepting that you might get shot in the face with a rubber bullet, gassed, batoned, tazed - but we have to maintain the movement as a peaceful one or we revoke any right we have to demand change.

Protesting really does nothing more than raise awareness. Now that we are all aware, there needs to be some clear direction and a non-violent means of meaningful and effective protest. By this I mean, OWS should promote mass movements. Tax protests (by withholding), marching on the White House, demanding specific legislation, etc. I am starting to come around to the idea that the protests are unorganized and ineffective, because it seems to many people the ultimate goal is violent revolution without regard to what will truly bring. It is time for OWS to push meaningful change in a real way, and not just by going toe to toe with law enforcement.

reply to post by robomont


yes i was thinking this ...if society does break down and the police dont get paid and cant feed their own families...what happens...we live in a pretty fragile environment it wouldnt take a lot for the shelves of the supermarkets to empty ....more to the point even if the police were paid they wouldnt be able to buy food and water for their families....hmph...now that makes me think the fema camps are for the police and their families...how else could they keep their dogs loyal and safe to do their dirty work

reply to post by TinkerHaus

This is only slightly on topic, and I apologize.. But I see so many people on ATS just aching for violence and it frightens me. You cannot obtain a peaceful reality on a violent path. By protesting you are accepting that you might get shot in the face with a rubber bullet, gassed, batoned, tazed - but we have to maintain the movement as a peaceful one or we revoke any right we have to demand change.

Umm NO..........

The law allows for peaceful protests..
IMO that means you should NOT be subjected to intimidation by police with

By protesting you are accepting that you might get shot in the face with a rubber bullet, gassed, batoned, tazed -

Why would they need to "accept" that as you state???

IMO the police are FORCING the issue and have already shown their agenda..
Now it's a case of will the protesters "defend" themselves because they certainly HAVE been attacked..

reply to post by svetlana84


Wow...

Shoot a guy in the face from a few meters away.....then gas bomb the people that went to help him

reply to post by backinblack


Why would they need to accept it? Well WE need to accept it because it's inevitable.

Yes we have a right to peacefully assemble - does this mean we'll automatically get it?
Those who oppress are those who write and enforce the laws. That's why we need to accept that it's a reality that protesting in such large numbers, "occupying" town squares and city parks, screaming in the face of LEOs is going to bring retaliation.

We have accept it because it's REALITY. No matter what our Constitution says. Is it right? Definitely not. Is it reality? Well, we wouldn't be having this conversation if it wasn't.

You need to accept that this is inevitable, and that the change we are calling for cannot be obtained through violence.

ETA: I wonder how many of those calling for violent retaliation against police attacks have actually been out to an Occupy protest. It's easy to sit behind your desk and call for violent revolution, it's a different story when you're out there trying to accomplish something and you realize what violence on the part of protesters would mean.

ETA #2 - this is why I'm calling for protest that would be physically effective without being violent. Like refusing to pay our taxes. Striking. Shutting down economic centers through refusal to take part in a corrupt system, rather that trying to violently overthrow it. These will be the tools that bring about ACTUAL change. What you're calling for will bring only pain.

this video is truely disgusting, im sick of watching this happen time and time again
these police need to be shot in their face.
rise up american militas..now is your time. this is what you guys have been waiting for and your not doing anything!
people who support this are scum

If you are stupid enough to stick your head in a hornet's nest, you have to expect to be stung.

reply to post by TinkerHaus

You need to accept that this is inevitable, and that the change we are calling for cannot be obtained through violence.

Sadly I think violence will be the only way anything WILL ever change..
The Government will make sure of that..

Until more realize that we actually DON'T have to "accept" it, nothing will change IMO..

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by TinkerHaus

 

You need to accept that this is inevitable, and that the change we are calling for cannot be obtained through violence.

Sadly I think violence will be the only way anything WILL ever change..
The Government will make sure of that..

Until more realize that we actually DON'T have to "accept" it, nothing will change IMO..

I don't mean we need to accept the way things are as our indefinite reality. I mean we need to accept that there are going to be scuffles and injuries if we choose to go out and protests. We have to accept that this may happen to us and refuse to lower ourselves to that level. We become hypocrites and our message is lost when we act the same way as the establishments that we have pitted ourselves against.

We can accomplish much without violence. We need to shut the system down, and because each and every one of us is a little piece of that machine we can effectively shut it down by refusing to participate. There are enough people in the streets today to make a very effective statement without retaliating violently against police.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


that may be the case...but i do beleive we are seeing heavy handed and violent tactics being used against peacefull protestors....so i do beleive that it would be the police inciting this violence....now that is scary...because when people start to fight back and start bringing their own weapons...and these people would be justified in bringing arms to defend themselves...we have a big problem....im getting angry sitting infront of my laptop watching this in comfort from afar...imagine how the people on the ground feel....ffs the police are using laws as justification for violence....oh boy this is going to get ugly

The argument everyone is using is "HE STARTED IT!!"

How often did that work with your mom and dad? When you and your brother or sister or whatever got in trouble for pounding on each other did your parents ever care who started it?

They are trying to make you angry! They're trying to make you retaliate. The moment you do, the WHOLE THING GETS SHUT DOWN.

Let's refuse to fail by acknowledging the lessons we learned as children and applying them to the big picture.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


Doing it your way would take years and that's no guarantee either..

A corrupt Government will do everything possible to stay in power..

You forefathers wrote the 2nd amendment for good reason, not just to go rabbit hunting.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


So you just talk it through??

The US did that with Afghanistan..
Didn't work so they bombed them..

The US did that with Iraq..
Didn't work so they bombed them..

The US did that with Libya..
Didn't work so they bombed them..

Shall I go on or do you get the point of what the Government thinks of non violent protests??
But sure, the protesters should try something different that's never really worked..

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by TinkerHaus

 

Doing it your way would take years and that's no guarantee either..

A corrupt Government will do everything possible to stay in power..

You forefathers wrote the 2nd amendment for good reason, not just to go rabbit hunting.

I agree with you 100%... But we're still far from that point.

Thanks to technology we're far past the point where taking up our small arms would be effective. One mobile LRAD and all the guns on the block would be 100% ineffective. When you bring your gun to a protest is the day I stop marching and bug out.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by TinkerHaus

 

So you just talk it through??

The US did that with Afghanistan..
Didn't work so they bombed them..

The US did that with Iraq..
Didn't work so they bombed them..

The US did that with Libya..
Didn't work so they bombed them..

Shall I go on or do you get the point of what the Government thinks of non violent protests??
But sure, the protesters should try something different that's never really worked..

Please re-read my first and second post in this thread.

I said we've come to the point where talking has done as much as it can. Now is the time to organize effective and REAL protests by refusing to take part in the corrupt system. Now we withhold our taxes, we strike, we find effective ways to show that we're still here and still able to incite change without calling for violent revolution. We exhaust all these means before we even begin talking about bringing our guns.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


Civil war my ass!, gutless cowards dont own guns it will be a civil slaughter.

Even if the video is true, and as it stands, I have no reason to believe that its a fake, does the fact that it was an ex-military "veteran" that got shot make it more pertenant? Are veterans somehow "more worthy" than non-veterans?

The way I see it, a veteran is someone who stood up and fought for their country.

Isn't that exactly what the occupy protestors are doing? Fighting for their country against corrupt oligarchs. In this conflict, there are no "veterans", there are only "people". They all deserve the same respect.