Do these manipulated Apollo images hide an unknown civilization?

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by Kyobosha
Any vibration lasting that long is in a solid sphere is uncharacteristic of what we see here on earth.

Yes, but as we have only seismic data from Earth and a little from the Moon, the only thing we can be sure is that they are different.

Sure they are different, you are right about that. However, while we have a lot of data for the Earth, we also have a significant amount of data for the Moon. Over 12,000 events were recorded between 1969 and 1977 when NASA shut down the program in a cost cutting measure. This data shows how the moon reacts in quakes and impacts. NASA even deliberately crashed spacecraft into the Moon for data. Look at the link below and review the graph. It shows the waves propogated for at least 45 minutes when the Moon was impacted. This is similar to when the clapper on the bell impacts the housing. The fact is scientists can't explain this phenomena; there is data, do we need more to explain it? Yes. Can we say for a fact that when know everything about the structure of the Moon or Earth? No. Do we have data that conflicts with conventional theories for both the Moon and Earth? Yes.

science.nasa.gov...

What I don't understand is the Bible connection.

Again I brought up the Bible connection because it was in Conspirus' post that you replied to. Just found your response a little sarcastic (maybe it wasn't meant to be). I didn't bring it up out of the blue, I brought it up in response to your post which was responding to Conspirus' post.

Originally posted by Pimander

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by Kyobosha
Any vibration lasting that long is in a solid sphere is uncharacteristic of what we see here on earth.

Yes, but as we have only seismic data from Earth and a little from the Moon, the only thing we can be sure is that they are different.

At last. That's how far I got but no further. I'm not the only one who hasn't grasped the rest of the "explanation".

The rest of which explanation? We have data from the Moon that shows it propogates waves like a bell. Am I trying to explain why and say the Moon is for a fact hollow? No. Does this data conflict with conventional theories about the structure of the Moon? Yes. Do we have data that also conflicts with the conventional theories for the structure of the Earth? Yes. I am only bringing up alternate theories that have arisen in an attempt to explain these anomalies.

We need to make sure we don't accept everything science tells us as fact when its just a theory. Our current science can explain a lot but not everything. So why when another theory is brought up in an attempt to explain a phenomenon it is rejected if it conflicts with other theories? It's like Conspirus said, we are almost repeating history with when people rejected the thought of the Earth being round.

A hollow Earth concept doesn't conflict with the different theories of gravity. Nor does it conflict with tides or the alignment of our solar system. It only conflicts with the theory that the Earth is solid. Remember, a theory is a hypothesis, not a fact.

Kyo

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

That's great work OP!

Guessing the entire thread has not been read, yet? The OP used software inappropriately, and came up to an invalid conclusion, based on a pre-determined confirmation bias.

You know what's really doing it in for NASA? The fact that they want Gary McKinnon so badly.

Source? Specifically, the source that shows "NASA" want McKinnon, and not the FBI....or the U.S. military.....

I don't care whether he used software inappropriately because I wouldn't be able to prove or disprove it anyway. I happen to deeply and emphatically believe, the Moon is not what we think it is. I'll leave it at that.


Ummmmm, the FBI wants McKinnon because NASA is the FBI in as much as the Pentagon is NASA. They are the same people.
What?....you think I think that the FBI drew his name out of a hat?

You're talking about semantics and you're wasting my time having to answer this.
McKinnon hacked into NASA's computer and whistle-blew to the public what he found. And that is, NASA knows all about UFOs. Alien UFOs. Not just ours and has data on it.

But hey, thank you come to think of it. Having to answer your dumb post, bumped my post to the end and affords someone who didn't know about McKinnon, the knowledge!

Originally posted by Pimander
How many rocks have you come across that ring like a bell? It isn't made of perfect glass or one material like stainless steel in the case of a tuning fork.

At least one.

It was a sedimentary rock, looking like it was 50 cm block of sandstone, and when I hit it with a hammer it would vibrate for some seconds.

Originally posted by Kyobosha
Sure they are different, you are right about that. However, while we have a lot of data for the Earth, we also have a significant amount of data for the Moon. Over 12,000 events were recorded between 1969 and 1977 when NASA shut down the program in a cost cutting measure.

The US National Earthquake Information Center registers some 20,000 earthquakes per year, so you can get an idea of the different amount of data we have. Also, we have registers for earthquakes and other events, like subterranean explosions, for example, and many of those explosions were created on purpose to see how the Earth would react, while for the Moon we have a much smaller data set. If, with all this, we aren't sure of how the Earth is, we are likely much less sure about the Moon.

This data shows how the moon reacts in quakes and impacts. NASA even deliberately crashed spacecraft into the Moon for data. Look at the link below and review the graph. It shows the waves propogated for at least 45 minutes when the Moon was impacted. This is similar to when the clapper on the bell impacts the housing.

I think you are getting to attached to the bell idea, many things vibrate that way (don't forget we are talking about vibrations, not really about sound), like a gong or an anvil.

Again I brought up the Bible connection because it was in Conspirus' post that you replied to. Just found your response a little sarcastic (maybe it wasn't meant to be). I didn't bring it up out of the blue, I brought it up in response to your post which was responding to Conspirus' post.

The funny thing is that I didn't noticed the Bible reference in Conspirus' post, if I had I would have asked where on the Bible does it say that the Earth rings like a bell.

As many scientific thesis and published papers there are concerning the composition of the Moon....there are JUST as many purporting it is artificial.

Say what????....artificial???? we didn't learn that in school!!! That can't be!!!! That's not in the bible!! That's stuff saved for Star Trek.episodes. That's craaaaaazy talk. Besides, if it's artificial, where'd it come from? Who built it? Who put it here? Why did they put it here? Were Humans already on Earth when this took place? Was it put exactly where it is so to hide the Sun perfectly for a lunar eclipse? What's the purpose of it? Are there inhabitants on the Moon? If so, who? Do Humans know about this? Does the Moon really affect gravity here on Earth? If so, how? Why isn't there any vegetation on there? Why is the Moon almost as big as its hosting planet? Why doesn't the Moon rotate quicker? Is the Moon hollow? Is there a reason why 'known' missions never went back?

Ah...that's way too complicated. Let's just say it's 'real' and keep arguing about it. That's much more rational!

Originally posted by Human_Alien
As many scientific thesis and published papers there are concerning the composition of the Moon....there are JUST as many purporting it is artificial.

Really?

Besides, if it's artificial, where'd it come from?

That's a good question, do you know if there is an answer for that?

Who built it? Who put it here? Why did they put it here? Were Humans already on Earth when this took place? Was it put exactly where it is so to hide the Sun perfectly for a lunar eclipse? What's the purpose of it?

Those are all good questions, any answers for those?

When you start getting more questions than answers, maybe you are looking at it the wrong way, theories are supposed to explain things, so when we find a theory that only asks more questions, I think that means that theory is not that well supported in facts, so I look for other theories.

Are there inhabitants on the Moon? If so, who? Do Humans know about this? Does the Moon really affect gravity here on Earth? If so, how? Why isn't there any vegetation on there?

If there isn't any vegetation then isn't it unlikely for the Moon to have inhabitants?

Why is the Moon almost as big as its hosting planet?

Although very big when compared with other satellites on the Solar system, the Moon is not almost as big the Earth, it's 3.7 times smaller.

Why doesn't the Moon rotate quicker?

Why should it rotate at a different speed?

Is the Moon hollow?

Why should it be?

Is there a reason why 'known' missions never went back?

There wasn't any reason to go.

Ah...that's way too complicated. Let's just say it's 'real' and keep arguing about it. That's much more rational!

It's not really complicated, but if we start questioning everything about something then we will get nowhere. There's nothing wrong in questioning (far from it, it should be encouraged), but the questioning should have some basis on known facts, so they can help the understanding of that subject.

Making questions just because we can, without any idea of what to do with the new information is useless.

reply to post by ArMaP



But we can't even answer the basic question(s) about the Moon. So if it's THAT'S mysterious, and it is, why not consider questioning it even further? Why must the answers always be Human tailored? (rhetorical: because that's what we're used to? Well, it hasn't gotten us any closer to solving the mysteries from the past 2000+ years) Fact it, we don't even know much about anything. Only technology. That's like skipping A, B and C and going right to Z!

My point is.....most agree there is absolutely intelligent life out there.
Many agree, some of these intelligent species have been or are currently here. I know that one is very uncomfortable for some so, let's leave that one out.
So let's go back to, most believe in intelligent alien life because surely the Universe would be an awful waste of real estate just for us.

So....................................why stop there? Why can't we incorporate that belief into some of the many things here and around planet Earth, that we haven't figured out yet? I don't understand the hesitation.

It seems we embrace the idea of intelligent alien life as long as it's not near us. Well, I don't think we get to pick and choose how 'life' may work.

The Moon is a huge ball of mystery. It poses MORE questions (like you said) then answers. So I say, let's substitute the notion that perhaps it's not real and perhaps it is an alien 'gift'.

Because for me, once I dub in 'intelligent alien life' into most of the mysterious things on Earth, somehow......that seems to work for me.

Originally posted by Human_Alien
Fact it, we don't even know much about anything.

That's true.

My point is.....most agree there is absolutely intelligent life out there.

What people agree on (is "agree on" correct?) is irrelevant, it doesn't become true because they believe in it.

I believe in the possibility of the existence of intelligent life "out there" (with "out there" meaning the rest of the universe or multiverse or whateververse).

Many agree, some of these intelligent species have been or are currently here.

Once more, that means nothing.

I know that one is very uncomfortable for some so, let's leave that one out.

It's not a question of comfort, it's a question of lack of evidence.

So let's go back to, most believe in intelligent alien life because surely the Universe would be an awful waste of real estate just for us.

Right.

So....................................why stop there? Why can't we incorporate that belief into some of the many things here and around planet Earth, that we haven't figured out yet? I don't understand the hesitation.

But why should we look for external reasons for Earthly things? As far as we have seen, Earth has made a good job "living" on its own, so why look for extraterrestrial explanations?

It seems we embrace the idea of intelligent alien life as long as it's not near us. Well, I don't think we get to pick and choose how 'life' may work.

That's right, and the fact that some people think there are aliens near us doesn't mean it's true.

The Moon is a huge ball of mystery.

The Earth is still a mystery, we have many things to learn.

It poses MORE questions (like you said) then answers. So I say, let's substitute the notion that perhaps it's not real and perhaps it is an alien 'gift'.

Why? Just because we can? Then why stop there? Why not a gift from god(s)? Or demons?

Because for me, once I dub in 'intelligent alien life' into most of the mysterious things on Earth, somehow......that seems to work for me.

But that's the same thing as looking at complex equation and substituting it with a big X; it makes things easier to work with, but it doesn't explain a thing.

My problem with the alien explanation for the things we do not know is just adding another unknown, so we are left with two unknown things. It may be the true explanation, but if we do not get evidences of either those two unknowns we are not going to get to a result any sooner than if we had left the alien variable out of the equation.

reply to post by Human_Alien

But we can't even answer the basic question(s) about the Moon.

"Which basic questions"?

Actually, this is a primary goal of exploration and discovery. And of course, much as been learned, and compiled, since the 1960s, and onward.....

My point is.....most agree there is absolutely intelligent life out there.

Statistically speaking, and given the known age of the Universe....well, I would tend to agree.

A problem in "size" and "distance" can develop, however.....when realizing the tiny, tiny insignificance any one individual has, in relation to the vastness of the Universe.

Dropping our focus just a bit, to limit the scope......to just THIS one Galaxy (the one we have named, as our own, the "Milky Way"). The Galaxy we currently reside in is composed of something like 100 or even as many as 200+ BILLION stars.

But, this one galaxy, with its component stars, is only a single example of MANY BILLIONS of other galaxies!!!

The entire range of the Universe, and its potential, is mind-boggling.....

...but, back to our "neighborhood" for the moment. And, our little "sector" of the Galaxy (always capitalized, when referring to "our" Galaxy).....roughly speaking, about 100,000 light years in diameter, is our Galaxy.

Think about the very, very short time of Human civilization that has existed, here.....and the vast distances and possibly vast differences that an evolutionary path to intelligence, and tool use, can take.....

Many a science fiction novel have already covered pages and pages of concepts to consider......I'd recommend a visit to your local library, and a stroll through their Science Fiction section, for starters.

I'd start with Asimov, Heinlein, even mind-benders like Ellison and Bova......just to mention four......these are by NO means the only ones.

Oh, and for gosh sakes, do NOT miss the works of Bradbury!!! My gosh, a King!!!

Many agree, some of these intelligent species have been or are currently here.

Only if their evolutionary paths were somewhat similar to ours....OR if they are just a few thousand, even a MILLION of "our" years ahead.....think about how this Earth might have progressed IF the big meteor impact of about 65 million years ago had not occurred.

We might all be "reptilian sentients" now......

...... because surely the Universe would be an awful waste of real estate just for us.

ON THAT, at least, I can find complete agreement.