School guard pepper sprays students

For the second time in less than a week, a Norfolk school security officer has used pepper spray to break up a fight at a middle school. The latest incident happened Monday at James Blair Middle School .

According to Norfolk Public Schools spokeswoman Elizabeth Mather, the guard used the pepper spray to stop three students from fighting. All three were taken to the school nurse and their parents were contacted.

Mather said the students will be disciplined according to the school's "Standards of Student Conduct".

Administrators at the school are investigating whether the use of pepper spray was within the school division's policy .

source

Non lethal but highly painful weapons are being used on school children now? This is news to me! How do you feel about using pepper spray to stop middle school children from fighting?

reply to post by Evolutionsend


SAUCE????

hamptonroads.com...

Originally posted by Evolutionsend

None lethal but highly painful weapons are being used on school children now? This is news to me! How do you feel about using pepper spray to stop middle school children from fighting?

Kids get in fights - if you can't handle it without breaking out the pepper spray you have no business being a school cop. If I were one of the kids' parent I would be on a crusade for this lady's job.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus

Originally posted by Evolutionsend

None lethal but highly painful weapons are being used on school children now? This is news to me! How do you feel about using pepper spray to stop middle school children from fighting?

Kids get in fights - if you can't handle it without breaking out the pepper spray you have no business being a school cop. If I were one of the kids' parent I would be on a crusade for this lady's job.

edit on 25-10-2011 by TinkerHaus because: (no reason given)

She deserves a serious ass whoopin imo.

reply to post by Evolutionsend


Depends on how bad the fight was. Middle school kids are not toddlers that cant hurt each other; they can potentially severely injure one another. If they were all very agitated and unable to be calmed, how is ONE person going to restrain THREE violent people all wanting to injure the other?

The key here is the context of the fight, which is conveniently left ambiguous. Its just a "fight", which says pretty much nothing and leaves it all up to imagination. Most will probably envisage a petty little smack fight and be outraged, however that image could possibly be very far from the actual truth.

Actually reading the source article, this part was left out from the OP:

"There was nothing else the security guard could have done - chairs and everything were being thrown," she said Friday.

... makes it seem it was quite a bit more violent than some simple smacking.

"There was nothing else the security guard could have done - chairs and everything were being thrown," she said Friday.

If the woman had touched the kids everyone here would be just as furious. What was she supposed to do? Flick the lights? I would have to see footage in order to make a real judgement call, and I think everyone else here would too. For all we know the kids were stabbing each other with sporks.

The problem here is kids dont accept authority anymore, and im betting all i got that if the school cop would have put a hand on the kids he would get sued by the parents, fights in school should not happen.

So again why cant parents raise there kids properly

reply to post by GodefroydeBouillon


I remember back to my high school experience, when a 200lb high school student went on a rampage throwing copying machines and office equipment. One of our teachers, walked up to him, put him in a full nelson, and dropped him without hurting him. He was of course our wrestling coach as well. If you can't take an inexperienced young person down hand to hand then you are a danger as a security guard.

Originally posted by GodefroydeBouillon
The problem here is kids dont accept authority anymore, and im betting all i got that if the school cop would have put a hand on the kids he would get sued by the parents, fights in school should not happen.

So again why cant parents raise there kids properly

You took the words right out of my mouth. What can they do?

If they don't break up the fight, the district is legally liable for injuries or damage starting at the moment the decision NOT to intervene is made. If they DO intervene and the kids don't immediately halt and heel to respect authority (Yeah ....riiight) then pepper spray is the only thing they have short of physically putting the students down, which would lead to lawsuits flying everywhere.

So...Yeah, what do they do? Hmmm... It's a sad state of affairs we see, but the response has to come somehow. Better pepper spray than electrocution by taser, I'd say.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I'm sorry, but anyone not capable of getting respect from a middle school child, is too frail for the job.

Read the article. That security guard was NOT doing their job. Any amateur bouncer can tell you that you never spray pepper spray into a crowd. I'm sorry, but her job does require her to take a few hits every now and then. Spraying pepper spray into a crowd of 12 YEAR OLDS without warning is cowardly.

"It was just terrible in there," 12-year-old Derrell Hairston said. "He stayed up all night coughing and gagging I just feel like you can't treat these kids like animals they're going to act like animals," Hairston's mom, Tyheshia, added. "I'd be upset absolutely I don't blame the parents for being upset I understand that," Norfolk Public Schools Superintendent, Dr. Richard Bentley said.

source

reply to post by Evolutionsend

I did read the story and we've all sure seen too many similar to it. I think the problem is the legal restraints the security have on them, not their ability to handle the situation if they didn't have that to worry about. In this day and age of 'sue first, ask later' the guards risk everything, including their livelihoods, if they misstep just once in a physical contact. The students know this, and so respect is a moot point. Why respect the guard staff when they can't actually DO anything until major thresh holds have been crossed?

I also see some of the kids my son is friends with and they are just about to enter middle school. Fortunately, we have a pretty good set of kids in the school he attends, but they aren't little kids if looked at as physical opponents in a real fight. I don't recall kids at that age being so big and strong looking when I was one of them at that age...but memory is never entirely accurate I suppose. At least adults have a sense of escalation and levels of force....kids aren't likely to appreciate those little things.

When I was in what is called in USA elementary school, there was a teacher in charge of these situations. He made the 2 guys in conflict wear boxing gloves and have 3 rounds, the rest made a circle. After the fight, shake hands and make peace or get suspended. GLORY DAYS.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


If you notice I linked the articles for both incidence. What is more of a legal risk, to take someone down hand to hand, or deal with the repercussion of using pepper spray improperly and affecting 37 kids? How about a warning? When I was in school they had a whistle and would yell long before they touched anyone. If that didn't work, either Mr Boyd or Mr Jones would take you down. They're aloud to put their hands on you, they just can't hit you. Same rules as a bouncer.

Totally justified . !


cry me a river .


These kids today need hard lessons to be learned.

Since you can't slap them upside the head.

Pepper spray is a great alternative and the best part is....


they learn a very hard lesson .


Next time they think about fighting they will remember the pain of the spray


good job to the security guard ! I wish we had more of them in schools with pepper spray , or even taser guns..



waa waa there kids


its softies who let their kids grow up without proper parenting that allows these kids to run rampid and think they can do as they please , because there parents will "ground" them


give me a break


Kudos to the security guard !

and to the haters , sorry it hurts so much .. .tissue for your issue?



and yes if that was my child he was fighting and not stopping when told too , i would def be fine with him getting sprayed.

not to mention the consequences after he got home lol

I think pepper spray is justifiable to break up fights, but using it on children does seem a bit over the top. What really bothers me about it is that what if one of the kids was just defending themselves? They do NOT deserve to be pepper-sprayed.

I know that I would be super-pissed if someone came at me, and I had to defend myself as best I could, and then I got pepper-sprayed to boot. Not only would I probably be hurting from getting punched and/or kicked, but then I couldn't see and my eyes burned.

I have never been pepper-sprayed, but when I was in the military I got gassed with CX, and I imagine it is a similar feeling. It isn't THAT bad, but it isn't fun either, and I know I wouldn't want to be pepper sprayed for defending myself.

But, the person trying to break it up could have gotten hurt, which is at the very least an insurance issue for the school, as well as a liability issue, so what SHOULD be done in these situations? I don't really know, so I will think about it and read the posts in this thread before coming to a conclusion.

I don't know.... kids now have a world of no consequence whatsoever. can't yell at them, can't hit them, can't punish them, can't do nothing no more. they think they can carry on however they see fit, and if someone should intervene, mommy gets a lawyer.

on the other hand, pepper spraying a youth seems wrong on more then a few levels. with the laws we have on the books, I don't think there is any right way to handle this situation.

reply to post by yourboycal2


You wonder why young people have a lack of respect. Could it be, that if you want respect, you should give some respect? There was no warning given. She's a failure at her job and needs to be fired, it's that simple.

reply to post by wingsfan


That's weird because when I went to school our only real security guard, did all of that and even spit in one students face. He was an ex-marine and he had his respect from every person in the building. Never got into any legal trouble.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus


What should be done? A real security guard get between them, take one 12 year old in each arm, and carry/drag them to the office. Which is exactly what our security guard did when fights broke out. If they were too rowdy for that, he'd grab the one that was the aggressor, take the kid to a utility room or a copy room, and lock them in until they calmed down.

reply to post by Evolutionsend


"You wonder why young people have a lack of respect. Could it be, that if you want respect, you should give some respect? There was no warning given. She's a failure at her job and needs to be fired, it's that simple."


whats respect in this situation ?

crying in the cornor " oh please stop hitting each other , oh please your going to hurt someone " lool

you see the immature minds of these kids are not developed enough to understand the value of respect

heance why they keep spitting on it pissing on it and causing rukus over your "respect"



Yes espically with the increase of violent flash mobs ! really !


I'll give them the same respect they give me




This is 2011 not the 60's


Times have changed so must our methods , god fearing kids are a thing of the past

with god out of the equation so fades self responsiblity , morals , ethics , values to a certain degree.


I assure if i got pepper sprayed at school for fighting i sure as hell wouldn't fight again.

Sometimes the best way to learn is the HARD WAY.

and this pepper spray is more like the medium hard way .

not even that bad .



p.s - that a s s in your avatar is out of this world

what is it about guns and sexy women lol

reply to post by Evolutionsend


"That's weird because when I went to school our only real security guard, did all of that and even spit in one students face. He was an ex-marine and he had his respect from every person in the building. Never got into any legal trouble"


You would put a marine who might have ptsd near kids ?


He spit on the childs face? lol this is something a girl would do . like pulling hair in a fight.


how do you know he never got into any legal trouble ? Do you know him now ? Do you have his record ?

When you assume......