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Originally posted by Bastet
my father was an equal amongst his "brothers". They organised, did their thing - no matter that my dad's clothes were threadbare, his collars frayed, & his boots stuffed with newspaper & cardboard for soles. I even recall 2 of his "brethren" calliing in at our tenement "single-end" to see me after I'd been in hospital when my father was o/seas - we'd never had such "grand company" visit us - one I remember was a solicitor. They were very kind to us too, 'nuff said.
Are there any �good� masons?
I conjecture probably 70% of all active (participating) masons are
-and-
have buried two grandfathers that were masons, the other two were not. Being a mason makes no one good, a good man is a good man.
Likewise I cited
muppet
Respect is earned, not expected by right.
In much of masonry it is admission by invitation. I imagine that your father was a well thought of �man of principle.� Any organization would count such as he as an equal and an asset.
At this point, as I can �perceive� (citing df1) that this thread is really different than it was first postulated I have chosen to start a masonic inquisition. I, of course, am the accused
The original questions are still unanswered and yet more have come.
The new ���thread��� is
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Originally posted by PublicGadfly
Your dad went for reasons that he found. He was a good man when he entered? From your post of high praise I imagine so.
Originally posted by Bastet
I feel that being a mason helped FOSTER the good within him. This was an area of high unemployment & crime, & many of his peers, & one older brother [that I know of] had criminal records & skipped out on their families.
I feel that Freemasonry helped his self-esteem & it certainly gave him a lifelong passion for reading which he'd never known before - he actually said that,
Originally posted by muppet
It obviously the secrecy that inspires the mistrust.
It's human nature, when people are whispering in corners, to be concerned about what they are whispering about. You can hardly blame people for that.
Certainly it was an important enough issue for the UK to pass laws requiring that Freemasons in the judiciary and elected MP's declare their allegiances.
Freemasonry has been implicated in a number of high cases in the UK, most notably the scandal surrounding the the now disband Midlands Serious Crime Squad, as well the the John Stalker "Shoot to Kill" policy inquiry. There have been other, cases as well, like the Italian P2 Lodge scandal.
On a more subliminal note, the symbology of freemasonry, such as the Pyramid sign which also appears on the US dollar, do something to perpetuate the idea that there is more to freemasonry than meets the (all seeing) eye!
Unforunately, I have to say the situation on this site isn't helped all that much by certain freemasons here (who shall remain nameless), who make a habit of raining a torrent of personal abuse and ridicule at any one who raises legitimate concerns or criticisms. I experienced it myself when I had to audacity to suggest freemasonry was not an infallible organization. The unwritten rule here "Thou shalt not question the Craft", I'm afraid simply adds fuel to the fires of suspicion in many peoples minds.
Is masonry a big deal?
Not to me other than academically/historically, but then I'm interested in the movement of ideas and philosophies through the ages anyway . In fact I am absolutely sure that the freemasons are NOT all in on some grand conspiracy. But it is also fair to say that suspicion of freemasonry is not limited to kooks or "anti-masons" either.
Originally posted by theron dunn
It is somewhat... egomanical to think that just because someone is talking or doing something you are not invited into that it necessarily means that they are plotting or working against you... right?
I mean, its not like you are being excluded. You CAN join, but joining takes a mature mind as well, so the circle come full 'round.
Really? Do you want all Catholics to declare their membership before taking the stand... or perhaps Muslims, since we all KNOW they can't be trusted... or how about Jews? Europe has a fine tradition of jew baiting... look at France right now, and Germany sixty years ago...
To slander the whole 5 million man fraternity for the actions of a few is hardly rational..
shall we tar the whole Catholic church for the abominable actions of a few "priests"?
Well, there IS more to freemasonry than meets the eye, just not in the sense that you are implying.
Actually, abuse has NOT been rained on you, unless you call having proof that you are wrong shoved up your nose abuse...
or being called to task to prove unfounded defamatory comments to be abuse... personally, I consider slanderous attacks like THIS one to be abuse, but hey, I am the TARGET of this abuse, so I would see it...
No one has written or implied that suspicion is limited to the kooks and fanatics.
We are, most of the masons here, I think, here not to squabble, but to offer the truth in the face of rampant paranoia, misinformation, and konspiracy kookery...
Originally posted by LTD602
Please forgive 'Theron."
His real name is Noreth D'unn, a loyal servant of Reficul, our Most Sacred and Supreme Master. We have been charged with the task of defending a particular ideology which we have little to do with, but all the same, we do not ask quetions. Sometimes we go a little overboard.
Originally posted by muppet
It obviously the secrecy that inspires the mistrust.
It's human nature, when people are whispering in corners, to be concerned about what they are whispering about. You can hardly blame people for that.
Certainly it was an important enough issue for the UK to pass laws requiring that Freemasons in the judiciary and elected MP's declare their allegiances.
Freemasonry has been implicated in a number of high cases in the UK, most notably the scandal surrounding the the now disband Midlands Serious Crime Squad, as well the the John Stalker "Shoot to Kill" policy inquiry. There have been other, cases as well, like the Italian P2 Lodge scandal.
On a more subliminal note, the symbology of freemasonry, such as the Pyramid sign which also appears on the US dollar, do something to perpetuate the idea that there is more to freemasonry than meets the (all seeing) eye!
Unforunately, I have to say the situation on this site isn't helped all that much by certain freemasons here (who shall remain nameless), who make a habit of raining a torrent of personal abuse and ridicule at any one who raises legitimate concerns or criticisms.
I experienced it myself when I had to audacity to suggest freemasonry was not an infallible organization. The unwritten rule here "Thou shalt not question the Craft", I'm afraid simply adds fuel to the fires of suspicion in many peoples minds.
Is masonry a big deal? Not to me other than academically/historically, but then I'm interested in the movement of ideas and philosophies through the ages anyway .
In fact I am absolutely sure that the freemasons are NOT all in on some grand conspiracy. But it is also fair to say that suspicion of freemasonry is not limited to kooks or "anti-masons" either.
Originally posted by muppet
Oh dear...Sometimes you just can't win! Oh well. I tried my best...
As I said. no hard feelings.
Originally posted by LTD602
I bet if we all met at a local pub over a few beers, we'd all be friends in no time.
Originally posted by LTD602
I bet if we all met at a local pub over a few beers, we'd all be friends in no time.