The last thing we need is an islamicized North Africa!

I see a second Iran coming. oh nonononono.

www.economist.com...

reply to post by Deon


Damn right. We can't let those filthy Muslims decide they want a form of government based on Islam. We have to shoot them all! Kill the infidel mahometans! It's time for a new crusade.



Welcome to Democracy 101, Deon; sometimes elections don't go the way you want. Sometimes the votes of the people lead to a government that is harmful to those same people. Just gotta roll with it though.

reply to post by Deon

Well Tunisia doesn't really represent the whole of North Africa. Also, 99% of the people in Tunisia are Muslim, so I guess you could say it's always been "islamicized". Now with free elections, the people of Tunisia are able to vote for the government they want. I'm guessing you'd rather oppress these people and have western forces install a government of our choosing? Yeah, that wouldn't get them mad enough to say, I dunno, terrorize us.

So, playing devil's advocate, I ask you this OP...
Why is an "islamicized" North Africa (as if it wasn't already) the last thing we need? I'm curious to hear your opinion on this.

reply to post by Deon


The Islamification of Northern Africa has been well under way for years. There is no turning back. The area is under the empire of Islam. Like many other countries. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

It's strange really. Us westernized folks are at a precipice. We fear them. So, we bomb them. The western world will have nothing to do with the uprising of Islam.

There are peaceful people in all religions. However, Islam seems to have more fundamentalists than any other religion. Of course that is the truth. Yet there many people whom praise Allah that are peaceful loving people.

Are we ever going to get along? Sorely, I do not think we will. We are coming to an end of tolerance. It's not going to be good.

Wait. Is the concept of an Islamic North Africa supposed to be news? I mean the Moors did rule most of North Africa and the Iberian Peninsula for almost 800 years and they still have great influence in these areas.

Well, I am not islamophobic. I am just seeing the fact that Muslims tend to mess politics up with their religion or belief, like the communists, which does sometimes go against the fundamental beliefs of us modern civilized world, Countries like Iran, for instance, creating instability, regional threats, incubating terrorism (I've seen news reporting on N Korea trafficking weapons to Iran), lots of money and blood needs to be spent to tackle them.

When they have gone too far to be tolerated, are the Western powers going to start another war along the Mediterranean sea route to take down these Islamic states? If that's the case, it's better to eliminate all the causes in their beginning stage.

Originally posted by Deon
Well, I am not islamophobic. I am just seeing the fact that Muslims tend to mess politics up with their religion or belief, like the communists, which does sometimes go against the fundamental beliefs of us modern civilized world, Countries like Iran, for instance, creating instability, regional threats, incubating terrorism (I've seen news reporting on N Korea trafficking weapons to Iran), lots of money and blood needs to be spent to tackle them.

Okay, I have many issues with this post. First, Communism has nothing to do with religion, it is anti-religion. The whole foundation of communism, Marxism, is against religion and belief like this.

Secondly, I don't understand why you think America is any better than the Muslims in this regard - about half the country is against gay marriage because "The Bible says it's bad". Politics and religious belief are constantly mixed up everywhere.

Thirdly, the United States, even though we're "A Christian Nation", are just as much of terrorists as the Muslim radicals. The only difference is that our terrorism is sanctioned by all the religious people who think that if you are not a Christian you deserve to die. That is, of the radically conservative Christians in this country, of which there are many.

Fourthly, if the US is what you consider "civilized", then I worry for humanity. Sure, we may have more technology and infrastructure, but we use it in just as much of an animalistic way as the young Muslim teens who believe that suicide is better than life where they live. The US and the Muslim world are not so different; fundamentally, we are all out to bring as much happiness to our close friends and family as we can, and we both misguidedly think that killing other people is the way to bring it about.

Originally posted by brilab45
reply to post by Deon

 

The Islamification of Northern Africa has been well under way for years. There is no turning back. The area is under the empire of Islam. Like many other countries. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

It's strange really. Us westernized folks are at a precipice. We fear them. So, we bomb them. The western world will have nothing to do with the uprising of Islam.

There are peaceful people in all religions. However, Islam seems to have more fundamentalists than any other religion. Of course that is the truth. Yet there many people whom praise Allah that are peaceful loving people.

"We fear them so we bomb them"

We sound like the ones that aren't very peaceful here........

Originally posted by Deon
I see a second Iran coming. oh nonononono.

www.economist.com...

Give..the people, what they want.

What the heck do you care what system strangers live under 1000s of miles away from affecting your life?

Lets compare body counts between those crazy Iranians.. and republicans & democrats.

If North Africa rejects the losers in DC.. good for the N Africans... if the US elite lived on your block, you wouldn't talk to them either. Household changes, kidnapping, torture, occupying houses blocks away after killing mom, dad, the kids and Scrambles the cat... to protect their interests.

reply to post by spacekc929


Communism is not a religion, but communist states all use the same way to educate their youth like religions do. You just can't explain many communist behaviors in a way that makes sense, unless you admit that it is kind of a religion, that makes people loses their senses.

I am not American, I have never agreed that Americans are any better than anyone else in this world. You just happened to be born in a better place, in the right time to enjoy all the advantages( and disadvantages maybe) this nation has brought you.

The thing is problems are no longer likely to be solved in more peaceful way today except endless and useless summits, mulch-lateral talks. To make enemies bleed is the most straight forward way being adopted now.

America has already started two wars in this millennium, so if this Islamicized North African states is an issue which eventually will be solved by starting a war, then I think it is better to be now than later to do it.

Originally posted by snowspirit

Originally posted by brilab45
reply to post by Deon

 

The Islamification of Northern Africa has been well under way for years. There is no turning back. The area is under the empire of Islam. Like many other countries. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

It's strange really. Us westernized folks are at a precipice. We fear them. So, we bomb them. The western world will have nothing to do with the uprising of Islam.

There are peaceful people in all religions. However, Islam seems to have more fundamentalists than any other religion. Of course that is the truth. Yet there many people whom praise Allah that are peaceful loving people.

"We fear them so we bomb them"

We sound like the ones that aren't very peaceful here........

yeah, it is better to dislike them now than realizing you dislike them later, so that you can bomb less people. That's what I was trying to say.

Originally posted by Deon
reply to post by spacekc929

 

Communism is not a religion, but communist states all use the same way to educate their youth like religions do. You just can't explain many communist behaviors in a way that makes sense, unless you admit that it is kind of a religion, that makes people loses their senses.

I don't know, I think it is pretty straightforward. If people aren't selfish, then everyone can have enough and no one will be left in the dark. (It doesn't work, but it's not something that makes people lose their senses).
Also, Communist states =/= communism. Communist states are actually fascist, because a true communist state has never existed... true communism only works in very small scales.

I am not American, I have never agreed that Americans are any better than anyone else in this world. You just happened to be born in a better place, in the right time to enjoy all the advantages( and disadvantages maybe) this nation has brought you.

I am sorry for assuming you were American. I was making the point though that you think that Muslims "tend to mix up politics with their religious beliefs" which is clearly not something endemic to being Muslim. It is something endemic to being human, and I take issue with the fact that Muslims are singled out as somehow more irrational and caught up in their religion than the rest of the world.

The thing is problems are no longer likely to be solved in more peaceful way today except endless and useless summits, mulch-lateral talks. To make enemies bleed is the most straight forward way being adopted now.

America has already started two wars in this millennium, so if this Islamicized North African states is an issue which eventually will be solved by starting a war, then I think it is better to be now than later to do it.

Okay, woah there dude. Are you seriously advocating "making enemies bleed?" You still don't have a solid foundation for being afraid of an Islamicized North Africa, and now you are already advocating killing them by starting a war? And sooner rather than later? This is Islamophobia at its worst. No one deserves death because of their religion, or because of the religion of their country. I simply do not know how to have an intelligent conversation with you when you are already so set in your anti-Islamic beliefs that it will cloud your judgment and cause you to advocate treating them as something less than human that should just be eliminated.

reply to post by snowspirit


Thank you for getting me! You are so dang right I am going to spit. We are so wrong in what we are doing to the Mid-East and I make no apologies.

It was NATO and the west who put them in power. Even arming al ciada. So blame them for this mess which has been created, so dont start attacking the Lybians. It wasnt their fault. Guess hes earned his Nobel peace prize now.

Originally posted by spacekc929

Originally posted by Deon
reply to post by spacekc929

 

Communism is not a religion, but communist states all use the same way to educate their youth like religions do. You just can't explain many communist behaviors in a way that makes sense, unless you admit that it is kind of a religion, that makes people loses their senses.

I don't know, I think it is pretty straightforward. If people aren't selfish, then everyone can have enough and no one will be left in the dark. (It doesn't work, but it's not something that makes people lose their senses).
Also, Communist states =/= communism. Communist states are actually fascist, because a true communist state has never existed... true communism only works in very small scales.

I am not American, I have never agreed that Americans are any better than anyone else in this world. You just happened to be born in a better place, in the right time to enjoy all the advantages( and disadvantages maybe) this nation has brought you.

I am sorry for assuming you were American. I was making the point though that you think that Muslims "tend to mix up politics with their religious beliefs" which is clearly not something endemic to being Muslim. It is something endemic to being human, and I take issue with the fact that Muslims are singled out as somehow more irrational and caught up in their religion than the rest of the world.

The thing is problems are no longer likely to be solved in more peaceful way today except endless and useless summits, mulch-lateral talks. To make enemies bleed is the most straight forward way being adopted now.

America has already started two wars in this millennium, so if this Islamicized North African states is an issue which eventually will be solved by starting a war, then I think it is better to be now than later to do it.

Okay, woah there dude. Are you seriously advocating "making enemies bleed?" You still don't have a solid foundation for being afraid of an Islamicized North Africa, and now you are already advocating killing them by starting a war? And sooner rather than later? This is Islamophobia at its worst. No one deserves death because of their religion, or because of the religion of their country. I simply do not know how to have an intelligent conversation with you when you are already so set in your anti-Islamic beliefs that it will cloud your judgment and cause you to advocate treating them as something less than human that should just be eliminated.

edit on 10/25/2011 by spacekc929 because: fixing

edit on 10/25/2011 by spacekc929 because: (no reason given)

I don't advocate for war. However, if war is inevitable, then it's better to be now than later, so that your enemies are less stronger and organized, less resistances will be faced, and less people die.

If North African states become countries like Iran, which are ruled by religious figures and are extremely hostile to Americans, will there be war?

reply to post by Deon

I don't advocate for war. However, if war is inevitable, then it's better to be now than later, so that your enemies are less stronger and organized, less resistances will be faced, and less people die.

If North African states become countries like Iran, which are ruled by religious figures and are extremely hostile to Americans, will there be war?

Hopefully not, foreign policy needs to have some peace, or it just escalates.
It's time to slow down on the wars. They just create more hostilities towards western civilization.

Let's get something very straight right now: There is no social model, no economic model nor any religion that is right. I will state this clearly for you now too: Capitalism, Democracy, and Christianity are not right. Do not put your beliefs onto others. You don't even know what you are advocating. You in the USA have been brainwashed to believe that your ways are right just as much as the Soviets did in their time, the Nazis in theirs, and so on for all time past. No system is right and fair and just. There is nothing we have conceived that works in execution. Period.

Even while your country is all but on its knees (and that day will arrive toute de suite), you dare to spout such nonsense being neither conscious nor cognizant of it.

Please think.

so what, give them all guns watch them kill eachother.. Is it just me or do i smell bacon? We need to win our wars here on the home front before directing any attention to there stupid asses