US is only Capitalist, PROFIT-based Healthcare in World! NYC Doctors, Nurses Join OCCUPY Revolution

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by dbarnhart


Sure, you can have free health care but it will be crappy and you'll wait a long time for it.

Or how about having an insurance co. drop you when you turn 55 and never having filed a claim after paying them $500 a mo. for years.

edit on 23-10-2011 by whaaa because: (no reason given)

Nice try! That's a logical fallacy -

Nice try! Check it out.............


www.consumeraffairs.com...

What a fantastic system when you pay and pay but have to get a lawyer to make the Insurance co. live up to the contract THEY signed.

edit on 23-10-2011 by whaaa because: (no reason given)

Nice article. The reality is your statement was a logical fallacy (false dilemma). You would like people to believe that if they don’t have socialized heath care then the alternative (which is our current free market system) leads to what you described (having an insurance co. drop you when you turn 55 and never having filed a claim after paying them $500 a mo. for years). That, my friend, is a logical fallacy. I've never experienced that nor have I heard of that scenario. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, it means that it's not the norm and it's not cause for throwing out the current system.

Does the system need to be reformed? Yes! Does that mean dump the current system and turn to a socialized health care system? Absolutely not!

Well I have to go to the blood clinic tomorrow morning for a blood test. They will be checking for 16 different things and the only thing I will have to pay for is parking. What would that cost in the great U.S. of A.

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

Originally posted by dbarnhart
Having gotten up close and personal with the healthcare systems in a couple European counties, I will take our system hands-down. Some people point to the British system. Well, when I lived there children wear going deaf because the waiting period for minor ear operations was so long.

There are more MRI machines in just Phoenix AZ than all of Canada. I've watched people wait months for their turn to have a hernia operation in Canada.

Sure, you can have free health care but it will be crappy and you'll wait a long time for it.

Is deafness amongst children due to long waits for ear-infections an epidemic or just anecdotal and rare?

Does the number of MRI machines in Canada in comparison to Phoenix AZ matter? Is there a dangerous shortage of MRI machines in Canada that actually affects the population to a large extent? Have you considered that Phoenix might have too MANY MRI machines?

Free health care, no matter the wait times, is BETTER THAN NO HEALTH CARE. There are tens of millions of Americans (including children) who don't have any health care provided, that's plain unacceptable. As for the fear-mongering over universal health-care in other countries... many people actually enjoy their health care in those countries and they have higher quality of life, health, and life-expectancy than we do in the states... so what gives, man?

No American is turned away from heath care services. That's part of the reason that health care cost are so high...because doctors don't get paid for their services in many cases! I agree that the prices are high, which is why TORT reform, big pharma, government regulations on insurance and other things need to be addressed (all things that liberals won't touch because they WANT socialized medicine). Addressing those problems would drive prices down and allow more people to buy insurance on the free market. The situation in the marketplace dictates the price. When you have the government throwing up obstacles and driving up the price of doing business those costs are passed on to the customer.

Originally posted by pigwithoutawig
Well I have to go to the blood clinic tomorrow morning for a blood test. They will be checking for 16 different things and the only thing I will have to pay for is parking. What would that cost in the great U.S. of A.

I think it's like $360...but that's only for one blood test at a time. Plus you'd have to pay for parking at least $5 and that's cheap.

Oh, what a utopian system it is!

Hospital overcrowding affecting Ont. patient care
Long-term care shortages strain Windsor hospitals
N.B. nursing care bed shortage acute

Maybe Canada ought to do what the UK has resorted to, having doctors fill out Do Not Resuscitate forms for elderly patients without the patient's or family's knowledge or consent (Source.)

Originally posted by pigwithoutawig
Well I have to go to the blood clinic tomorrow morning for a blood test. They will be checking for 16 different things and the only thing I will have to pay for is parking. What would that cost in the great U.S. of A.

Well...for about 85% of Americans it would be FREE!! (money.cnn.com...).

That's a travesty!! We should throw out our system and go to the socialized medicine so the 15% save $100 on blood work and everybody in America gets their taxes raised (except the 50% who don't pay taxes) and we all get a lower standard of care!! Sounds great!!!

Originally posted by pigwithoutawig
Well I have to go to the blood clinic tomorrow morning for a blood test. They will be checking for 16 different things and the only thing I will have to pay for is parking. What would that cost in the great U.S. of A.

If I would see a doctor, $12 co-pay. If not, which is what a blood draw is, nothing, not even parking. The hospital has free valet parking.

reply to post by seabag


Yea but that 15% is more than the population of Canada.

Co-pay means paid, private premium insurance is paying the rest of it, probably hundreds,

no??

Originally posted by ignant
Co-pay means paid, private premium insurance is paying the rest of it, probably hundreds,

no??

I don't know. I pay $48 / month from my monthly military retirement check for my TriWest health insurance. I pay $12 co-pay if I see a doctor.

And as an aside, do all the healthcare workers, administrators, managers, etc. in socialized healthcare systems work for free; and what about the facilities, supplies, and all other ancillary expenses? Are they all free? No, because there is no such thing as free. It all comes out of a pool of money graciously 'donated' by all the taxpayers in the country. So how much are the taxpayers in your country's socialized healthcare system paying for a full panel blood test? Probably hundreds, or maybe even thousands seeing as money to the government is readily replaced by more taxes.

reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II


The hospital overcrowding is in Ontario. It is a big Province with the Biggest cities and population. I think the overcrowding is because the system does not keep up with the population growth. The long term care in Windsor and Nursing home bed shortages in N.B. mean that people that should be in a nursing home are not so they are stuck in the hospitals taking up beds. I know people in N.B. that are trying to get their nursing homes expanded but the Gov't have put a freeze on expansions. I know someone that has a home built and ready to go but can't get the go ahead to open. So on the one hand the Gov't is complaining of having to keep people in hospital, but on the other hand they won't let existing homes expand. Go figure. Oh yea that article on N.B. has a pic of the Hospital I'm going to tomorrow. It does not have beds in the hallways. The article about Memramcook says they have about a dozen people waiting to get in to the nursing home. Memramcook is small pop 4,638 so I don't expect they have a lot of anything.

reply to post by pigwithoutawig


Is this mismanagement because the Canadian healthcare system is underfunded and they need to raise taxes, or just incompetent management?

reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II


Oh you are right about that, we do pay for it with our taxes. But In Canada we don't mind. We think like Spock " The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or something like that. We like that if your sick and have to go to hospital, you can. There are very few Canadians that have ever gone bankrupt because of medical bills. If we have such low quality health care then how come our life expectancy is longer then the U.S. We're 11 to your 36.en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II


I'd say incompetent management by the Gov't. I never said the Gov't was perfect, in fact far from it. But we weathered the economic crises better then any other country. We still have jobs and keep getting more. Did you hear of the huge shipbuilding contract awarded N.S. , Quebec and B.C. Thousands of good paying jobs for at least thirty years. www.theglobeandmail.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">www.theglobeandmail.com... olitics/shipbuilding-contract-will-bring-nova-scotians-home/article2207213/

doctors and hospitals in capitalist USA are grossly overpaid,

compared to doctors and hospitals etc in socialist healthcare where medical costs are more reasonable.

at a NY hospital a few weeks ago, my brother's biopsy in his leg costed $225,000 and thats for the 1-hour visit for closed biopsy, alone. open biopsy was estimated to be $500,000 for a 1 hour outpatient procedure, anaestesia additional.

and if he had to stay overnite, the hospital charges $5,000 per nite. cover charge for the stay alone.

outrageous, no?

reply to post by ignant


Wow, I don't know how you guys handle bills like that. I hope your brother is going to be allright.

reply to post by pigwithoutawig


So, with Canada's higher life expectancy and their current shortage of beds in major high population areas, do you see this shortage getting better or worse in the next 10 to 20 years? Looks like fewer people are going to be paying for the care of more people as the years go on, exactly the situation our Social Security is going through and will bankrupt it in the next decade or so.

Originally posted by pigwithoutawig
reply to post by ignant

 

Wow, I don't know how you guys handle bills like that. I hope your brother is going to be allright.

actually he already started chemo which will last a year, then a few months or radiotherapy.

the doctor told me roughly 1 million for a year of treatment, based on $30,000 per oral chemo treatment, and 2 treatments per month plus some allowance for other meds.

reply to post by ignant


Have you thought about moving to Canada with your brother for his treatments? Their medical is totally free up there, and I'm sure they'll gladly help him.

Originally posted by ignant

Originally posted by pigwithoutawig
reply to post by ignant

 

Wow, I don't know how you guys handle bills like that. I hope your brother is going to be allright.

actually he already started chemo which will last a year, then a few months or radiotherapy.

the doctor told me roughly 1 million for a year of treatment, based on $30,000 per oral chemo treatment, and 2 treatments per month plus some allowance for other meds.

a million dollars for chemo?

i hope your borther can afford the monthly payments..

do you know how it costed my sister when she was diagonsed with acute leukemia?
a total amount of $0, i guess those are the benefits of living a developed country..