Paul wants to phase out federal student loans.

reply to post by projectvxn


Do you privately fund someone's education on your tax payer's dime alone? NO we all pay into the system! It is not just YOU! How arrogant is that! Try living on $12,000 per year and not depend on any government programs. I see you are in the miltary. My taxes pay for your salary so does that give me a reason to say something so igrnorant? No I won't say anything. I don't care if my tax money goes to you, a mother with 5 children, a crack addict, someone who truly deserves it or the person down the street. As long as it goes towards helping my fellow human being over the elist rich I am fine with it. I don't feel so entitled like you for paying taxes that everyone pays!

reply to post by projectvxn


I find it hilarious that you're accusing someone of riding the tax payers dime because they take a loan that they will pay back to go to college. The government will fully pay those universities (not a loan), for you to go to college. Who's riding the taxpayers dime again?

Does service guarantee citizenship?

Reply to post by Miraj

This is true about Louisiana. My father was a paramedic for 20 years and he always said if he ever got into a car accident, he wanted to go to Charity in New Orleans. Why? Not because it was free but because the Charity docs were flat out the best dang trauma docs in the nation.

Apparently some of you missed what I said. 428 percent tuition inflation over 11 years. That's not banking. That's profiteering.

Like so many other young students, I took the advice of my high school guidance counselor, parents, and mentors. "You'll end up digging ditches without a degree." Sound familiar? Kids are impressionable and I listened, instead of going to the free vo-tech partnership my high school offered.

With age often comes wisdom. Right now I wish I had ignored my elders. I am not upset about the loans. I am upset because the $chools treat us like piggybanks. Do you know how many BS unrelated classes you have to take in order to get any 4 year degree? Over half of them.

Example. I am a senior in the field of environmental science. An example of those classes:

Sociology
Art appreciation
Political science
World history

That's just what I can think of off of the top of my head. Additionally, this quarter I'm taking 2 freshman level cellular biology classes. Bear in mind that the job I got after losing my partial scholarship in 1999 was working in a anaerobic wastewater treatment facility. I spent 3 hours a day for 2 years looking into a microscope.

I still have to take those classes. No provision for testing out. Why? Because testing out of those 2 classes would keep the school from robbing me of $1500.

The nobility of higher education my butt. College is a $cam. Bring back apprenticeships!


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reply to post by dreamseeker


Yep.

It's not an entitlement issue.

It's a responsibility issue.

The American Tax Payer pays me to do a very specific job. I do it without complaining.

The American Tax Payer pays entitled 20 something to get a degree that will net them nothing but debt. All without forethought involved in any stage of the deal. And then said 20 something wants to complain about getting a "raw deal".

Sorry, but I don't think anyone should be paying for that OTHER THAN the person seeking the degree.

reply to post by projectvxn


It's a loan, not a grant. You pay it back with interest at about the same rate you pay a home loan. In reality his plan isn't going to save that much money, because everyone has to pay their student loan eventually.

reply to post by Evolutionsend


The GI bill is paid for by soldiers and matched by a fund.

Most soldiers, airmen, marines and sailors don't use the GI bill.

Secondly the GI bill isn't a forever thing. You either use it within 4 years of leaving the military(or at any point during your career) or you lose it.

Of course since the military is the military, any money not used for the GI bill is redirected somewhere else. And every few years cuts are threatened against it. They SHOULD leave it in the pool, but they do not. And the tax payer gets hosed. But not be the individual service member. But by the management at the pentagon.

The are a few things I think service members should pay more into. Like retirement benefits, and more into health care.

reply to post by Evolutionsend


And when they default on that loan who is on the hook for it?

reply to post by Evolutionsend

Does service guarantee citizenship?

Does citizenship guarantee entitlement to fund useless liberal arts degrees?

reply to post by projectvxn


As another poster mentioned, and as the terms of my loan say, they will get their money one way or the other.

If you can't pay, then they will garnish your wages and automatically take it out of your paychecks and income tax returns.

Since you can't write it off through bankruptcy, one way or the other they will get their money. Unless you never hold a job for the rest of your life.

reply to post by projectvxn


How is that different than a student loan? How is anyone that takes a long term loan from the government sticking it to any taxpayers? Are you referring to those that would try to cheat the government by not paying? You realize that not paying a student loan is not an option, you will pay that loan off before your body is cold, or after you die even if they have to take everything you own and bury you in a box? You also realize that by his "great" plan, he won't actually increase any assets, he'll just return them at a faster rate by pulling the plug on the loans? It will appear that the situation is getting better, when in fact it changes very little, other than the availability of education to Americans.

It may result in colleges lowering tuition, or it may result in banks simply taking over student loans, and charging a ridiculous interest rate. Resulting in yet another way for the bankers to skim the middle class Americans.

reply to post by Evolutionsend


Understood.

But how does this change the personal responsibility aspect?

Should government be in the business of loaning to students?
They got into the business of loaning to homeowners and we all know
how well that went...And is still going.


How long before government creates another crisis? You think students are getting hosed now? Just wait.

reply to post by projectvxn


I for one am for the Montgomery GI Bill. It makes sense to me.

People in the armed forces are taught a skill set that doesn't exactly mesh with civilian life. I really don't care what you are in the military, it really doesn't equate to civilian life, so in that instance it would be important to learn a skill that doesn't involve removing your enemies spine with a straight razor.

But Paul's idea is unsound. It should be this nations highest priority economically that we are able to compete in this global economy. Paul's idea is to severely hamper that global competitive edge by limiting some American's ability to learn a skill or trade that will help improve this economy.

If this guy was really for free enterprise, he would understand that federal student loans are an investment in the American economy. And since those loans are repaid, they would be an additional investment in our own government. Strengthening both the private sector by providing a skilled workforce, and bolstering the US Government by providing interest returns on an investment.

But, this goes along with Ron Paul's dual plan of weakening America to our enemies, and passing the buck whenever possible. So how can we be surprised that a terrorist sympathizer like Ron Paul wants to hurt this country?

reply to post by HauntWok


Ok.

Meet me in the middle:

Government only funds math, science, and engineering degrees.

Everyone else has to do their thing on their own.

reply to post by projectvxn


My concern is this. How long after the government pulls the plug before a society of people that must have either military service, vocational education, or college education, start pandering to the bankers and the inevitable availability of high interest student loans? It's just going to open another door for bankers to skim American's pockets.

The reason they can't do it now, is because the government has the market cornered. I think they should be in that business, because it's a lot better than the private sector doing it. If things were different in this country right now, I might agree with you, but they're not different, and his idea has the potential to screw everyone over badly if it doesn't pan out like he expects it to.

reply to post by projectvxn


We need Psychology, Health Care, Education and Communications as well. There are many useful degrees out there.

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by projectvxn

 

We need Psychology, Education and Communications as well. There are many useful degrees out there.

I was actually going to add those.

But as far as creating hard economic output, no other type of education does it better than math, science, and engineering.

reply to post by projectvxn


That doesn't make sense. Unless college tutions go down to $100 per month that would never work in reality. Certian jobs need certian degrees. Would you want your Dr to be "responsible" and not get a degree? Does this mean we will have Drs without degrees? No one can afford college out of pocket unless they make $100,000+ and who makes that kind of money?

reply to post by projectvxn


I hate math. I have never once used algrebra,stats, geomoetry or that weird greek math. You know the one with the crohn's alpha? Not sure what kind of funky math that is? I am sure it is needed in some form but I would rather have more Drs than math majors.

reply to post by projectvxn

Meet me in the middle:

Government only funds math, science, and engineering degrees.

Everyone else has to do their thing on their own.

I like the middle ground as much as the next guy, and I agree with your ideas. Math, Science, and Engineering are important skills our future generations should know.

But America deserves to be the BEST at everything. For far too long we have let ourselves slip. Ron Paul wants to keep America slipping till it's a 3rd world country or worse. WE deserve and need to be the absolute best at absolutely everything. and the key to being that best is through education.

Federal LOANS are, well, LOANS, and they are repaid. Why are we fighting over something that invests in our future and has returns that outweigh the risk of investment?

This isn't free money we are talking about, these are loans.

Now I also agree that people need to do their thing on their own. What they do with that education is their business. Succeed or fail, it's up to them, but they still are on the hook for those loans that they themselves took out and promised to repay.

Right now, getting a private loan is a difficult thing without perfect credit. The US Government should invest in this countries future by giving out loans to make this country better in the long term.

But Ron Paul doesn't like that idea, Ron Paul wants us to be subservient to China, subservient to OPEC. And his war on education is proof of his total hatred of this country and it's people.

Why shouldn't we educate our citizens to prosper in this global economy? Why shouldn't we give our citizens the means and the tools to better themselves and give them the opportunity to make this country the best country in the world? Why should we import minds from India or other places when we ourselves are capable of doing it better?

I would love to meet you in the middle. Lets work on where that middle is and hopefully that middle is where America succeeds in the end and not fails to foreign visa holders taking jobs Americans deserve.

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by projectvxn

 

That doesn't make sense. Unless college tutions go down to $100 per month that would never work in reality. Certian jobs need certian degrees. Would you want your Dr to be "responsible" and not get a degree? Does this mean we will have Drs without degrees? No one can afford college out of pocket unless they make $100,000+ and who makes that kind of money?

No, THAT doesn't make any sense.

You should have a responsible plan for paying back student loans. Being a doctor is very lucrative. And if you manage your expenses correctly, would be much easier to pay off student loans than if you took out a loan for the same amount of money and went for a philosophy degree.

My problem is idiots taking out loans they can't pay back for degrees they can't use in the real world and then whining about how hard life is.