Originally posted by BurningSpearess

However, on the other hand, my mother plays a more traditional-type of wife/mother, and so when it comes to men, I would always expect them to "lead the way" so to speak. I wouldn't dare of thinking of making a "First Move" as that (according to my up-bringing) is not the way a *real lady* would act.

Hmmm this is very interesting, so even though a modern women has been programmed to except a career type life, but that sense of still maintaining their feminine qualities, and allowing men to lead the way are still very important.

I would have to say that I would push this view right to the top if I was a man searching for a partner. Do you hear that fella's on ATS?, the women still want us to make the first move and lead the way.

BurningSpearess I really appreciate your comment this puts things into a better perspective.

So guys get out the velvet caveman clubs and go find a mate.

What applies to one social area does not mean it applies in other.

Women have always worked, just because they are holding more jobs in the actual workforce does not mean women have not always worked.
Most estates were completely run by women. Women filled in during WWII and so on. First ladies have filled in for presidents. So to imply that women were dumpy housewives till recent times is kind of sexist.Women have always been involved in charities, politics, churches and communities in some form.

The question I ask is how is the placement of women in the workforce related to mating rituals? Is it seen simply as an aggressiveness in one is an aggressiveness in another?

Now lets change how this is viewed:

Women are working, but most are not aggressive. There are always exceptions of course.

The rare woman gets paid more then a man but there is still a HUGE discrepency in pay. There is still plenty of sexism to go around and women still have to work much harder then men to get credit for the same work.

Think it is not true? I can tell you plenty of personal stories, some that my supers were not even aware of doing.

Women usually don't have the courage to march into the boss's office and say: I do this this and this, I deserve a raise. Women hoped they get notice for the work they do. Men are still the leads in this area, and that contributes to the higher pay. If women are chastised, they tend to not argue back as often, fear of repercussion.

And that is the bottom of it all, fear of repercussion, because women are still convinced to not speak out in society, to not make themselves noticed.

The situation in the home is stillt he same too, a woman now has to work 40 hours, still take care of the children and cook dinner. The amount of time men spend on housework has only gone up 2 hours a week since 1950.

So the home situation is still exactly the same.

So the mentality is still the same.

I for one, am certain, that certain behavioral roles from each gender, are hardwired in by nature. Men needed to be 'promiscuous' to spread their DNA as far and wide as possible, while women needed to be very selective, and pick only the genetic heritage which insured a strong smart attractive thereby, healthy, offspring. So that, back in the primordial brain, women sit back and pick and choose one, from approaching suitors.
I know that many people are not selective for that though, unfortunately, this might have to do with due to modern times.

Women "usually" don't make the first move because their emotions are at stake. They want to be presented with a challenge, good conversation, and something that makes them laugh. You can't be forthwith with any woman.

To quote a cliche, "be mysterious, chicks dig it."

Women are A LOT more complicated than just "Hi, let's go out on a date." To make it even more challenging, they want you to be original, and tailored to their interests. You have to be a mind reader before communicating with another female. However, if you approach it from a friendship POV, they are willing to engage in conversation about nearly anything. Except Quantum Physics. On a side note, if any female here wants to talk about leading theories about the nature of reality, u2u me, and my heart will flip butterflies. I am such a sucker for an intelligent woman.

See, it's about what you want out of life, and what your interests are. As far as the OP goes, he's talking about face to face encounters. That's trivial, physical, and misleading. If you really want to know about a woman, spend some time talking with her. Take her out for a drink, a coffee, a walk in the park, or chat online. TALK to her. Women are mental creatures. They are NOT visually oriented like men are. They simply want to communicate with you, and see if you are compatible. It's up to them to decide that, not the men.

There is no first move other than saying HELLO. Your smile (and that goes both ways) is all that is required.

I'll make the first move on you RT

I dunno..I'm quite a traditional girl in many respects...tbh, I've never been in a situation where I like like the person...therefore I dunno how would I react. Knowing me, I'd probably give some hints to the guy or somehow...I'm just still used to the idea of a man asking a girl...more romantic

And yeah..I must admit..in our culture...ladies don't go asking around, men come to you Rawr.

Making the first move isn't a problem, I've always been rather good at it. Whether it's appropriate though is the quandary. Some people just don't feel comfortable with the notion of a woman pursuing them, you have to bide your time and suss that out before you go in for the kill.
A clever woman takes time to formulate her plan, even if that plan ends up carefully and stealthily steering a potential mate into pursuing them.

Originally posted by Suspiria
Some people just don't feel comfortable with the notion of a woman pursuing them.....

....A clever woman takes time to formulate her plan, even if that plan ends up carefully and stealthily steering a potential mate into pursuing them.

The bold denotes caveman mentality. Ugh!

Cleverness is a sign of intelligence. I'd fall into that trap easily, and play the game according to her wishes, being happy in the process.

Dang that pond, Suspiria. That and a thousand other factors, LOL.

On another note, how much of the "first moving" is actually related to FEAR of rejection on both parties behalfs? I wonder.....Does the FEAR of loneliness overwhelm that former fear?

Another interesting point to make would be the "difference" between friendship and relationship. Where's that threshhold? In the past, there have been female co-workers that have been interested in me, and I flirt with others. That is the beginning of friendship.

What is the barrier that females have that say, ok, we're good friends, that's it? Men have the same sort of barrier as well, and sometimes we break through it.

There should be no communication barriers if it's just friendship, right?

Hrmm.. I often make the first move, however, I prefer to chase until I am caught *grin*. The older I get the more I seem to just throw myself out there with only a nod (at best) to caution and have even (*gasp*) found an appreciation for letting the lucky guy know he is the pursued. That having been said, its actually kind of rare for me to see a guy that catches my interest. So many guys are just umm... hrmm, perhaps like so many girls. Bland, lukewarm, NORMAL. I would rather remain single than try to convince myself that someone who is mundane is someone I wish to invite into my world. As far as the physical indicators of a woman being attracted to a man with whom she is speaking?
Well, not all of us are so unread that we weren't already aware of them *grin* however some are merely based on socially conditioned expectations of women which originated in a time when gender roles were less fluid. Or can be used to a person's advantage since those signs are often responded to on a subconscious level.
Eye contact? I always maintain eye contact when speaking with someone; I am an assertive person, and an alpha personality. It would be beneath me to speak at length with someone without giving them (at least the impression that they have) my full attention. I am also a consummate salesman (f*** PC language, keeping the "man" at the end of the word is no threat to my identity.) Eye contact matters.
Touching a person lightly in conversation to make a point? I do that too. Hints of expressions from the language of flirting deftly added to a business situation can be helpful in achieving the results one wants. It may sound cold, but I flirt daily (when a client's "signals" indicate that flirting would be taken only as an ego feed, not as an offer, and not something that would be unwelcome). I have no issue with mimicking the markers of a woman who is attracted in order to get the results I want. Especially since it IS only employed on those who meet the aforementioned requirements. If it gets caught, it deserves to be eaten.
When I am actually attracted to someone, though, uggh.. thats a weird combination of the game of chase and feeling like a junior high school kid again *grin* It would be nice to meet more guys who are interesting. If I don''t I am going to have to start looking for a place to buy a leopard. If I'm going to be that cat lady, I'ma do it MY way.

CatLady? Alpha personality?

Rawr.

Thanks for that post. I need to go take a cold shower now. Lol.