Humans and symbiotic relationships with animals. , page 1

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Topic started on 21-10-2011 @ 10:42 PM by Mcupobob

So I was studying up on cats and dogs. Why did we domesticate them? Whats our relationship with them? I was curios so I went on search for answers. The reason for this being in the survival forum? I'll get to that soon enough!

First up the dog. Mans best friend, thought to be the first animal domesticated. Friendly, and loyal the dog will always be there for you.

Why are humans and dogs so closely bonded? Why do so many people find such comfort in having dogs around, and why do so many gain so much happiness and fulfillment from their pet dogs? From their part, why are dogs so loyal that they are commonly referred to as “man’s best friend”? Why were dogs the first animal species to become associated with early humans, many thousands of years before any other animal was domesticated?

www.livefully.info...

This article is what I stumbled upon in my research. I though it was the best I could find. Its states that dogs are great hunters, they joined up with us, possibly through mutual benefit or forced domestication but that is unclear in history. The point being the dog is a utility tool of the animal kingdom. A alarm to warn or scary off danger, able to help sniff out prey in a hunting situation, and capable of backing you up in fight. The dog being a pack animal will be loyal to the pack IE the human pack that adopted them. They will be there for you better or worse as long as you don't abuse them!!

Now the Cat. Mysterious, independent, and cuddly and fluffy. Also possible an alien transmitting device!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

There are two difficulties inherent in determining when and how the cat was domesticated: one is that, unlike many other species, domesticated cats can and do interbreed with their feral cousins; the other is that the primary indicator of cat domestication is their sociability, and we all know how far that goes. Domestic cats are identified archaeologically by their relatively small size (compared to feral cats), by their presence outside of their normal range, and if they are given burials or have collars or the like.

According to cat researcher Sarah Hartwell, one theory of domestication promulgated by archaeologist J.A. Baldwin is that wild cats were first attracted to human settlements by the small rodents who themselves came to feed on agricultural stores. Humans may have simply tolerated or actively encouraged the cats to hang around and essentially guard those stores.

archaeology.about.com...

From the above excerpt is to be believed cats were just simply tolerated. However now a days are more or less friendly. The cat was useful to use because it acted like pest control. They get rid of rats who infest homes and get filth all over the food and eat it. They get rid of gophers who terrorize our crops and gardens. They also make a good companions in some ways.

How evoultion is making them coexist.

www.medicalnewstoday.com...

Cats and Dogs have always been at each others tails and throats. However, now forced to live with each other because of a shared resource they rely on. Us, humans. Are starting to learn to live together in harmony. Which is good! Because in a SHTF situation were going to want our furry friends with us. See told you I would get to the point

If it comes back to the dark ages, were going to have to rely on our ancient companions. Cats and Dogs first and foremost. They are natural attracted to us and human settlements.

I focused on cats on dogs in this thread first because they are readily available. Easy to domesticate and useful. When you need someone to protect your home and help you hunt you'll want a loyal dog on your side. When you need some natural pest control to work in the house and farm and someone to give you cuddle during your black days you'll can turn the graceful cat.

As for other animals, like the horse and cattle. Well I don't think I would be qualified. I've never been around those animals nearly as much as I have with dogs and cats. If you have and would like to add about them to these thread then go ahead. Information is always helpful.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 11:10 PM by dc4lifeskater

My dog and cat love each other, this is probably because we raised the cat from a kitten around the dog and probably things its like its kid or something idk but she treats the cat like its her baby.

The cat also likes to bite my dogs ears which is funny

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 11:17 PM by Evolutionsend

reply to post by Mcupobob

Cats are not like dogs, really. A wild cat can be domesticated to behave just like any other domestic cat. They're smart enough not to fear us. I raised a bobcat, and it took to house life very easily. It also learned many things from our dogs, and assimilated very well while he was with us. He was even easily trainable as a dog would be. Cats are animals that choose to be domesticated for their own benefit, wild dogs all have a fear of humans.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 11:34 PM by g146541

reply to post by Mcupobob

Cool thread simply because my dogs rock!
If you did'nt know, I loves my doggies.
Good reasoning on why to have dogs.
As far as for the felines, if I need pest control I'll get another Daschund!
They kill everything, or at least go down kicking, screaming, howling, biting, Etc. tenacious lil guys.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 11:35 PM by dc4lifeskater

Originally posted by Evolutionsend
reply to post by Mcupobob

Cats are not like dogs, really. A wild cat can be domesticated to behave just like any other domestic cat. They're smart enough not to fear us. I raised a bobcat, and it took to house life very easily. It also learned many things from our dogs, and assimilated very well while he was with us. He was even easily trainable as a dog would be. Cats are animals that choose to be domesticated for their own benefit, wild dogs all have a fear of humans.

I very much agree here on this...

Dogs are also MUCH easier to train because of their fear which leads them to be more obedient to a person... My cat on the other hand could usually care less about what I want him to do and does whatever he wants...

For example my dog knows better then to beg I will pop her on the nose and she will go lay in the corner scared until she feels like its okay to come out of the corner... My cat on the other hand will meow so loud and annoyingly over and over and over again until you either put him in the bathroom and close the door so you cannot here him or you give him whatever it is you are making for yourself.. If I pop him in the nose he runs away for 2 seconds (also usually he evades the pop) and comes right back and MEOW MEOW

Also my dog would never bite me in 100 years, but my cat on the other hand has no problem biting me...He is always under my feet following me around and I step on him now and again, when I do this with the dog she yelps and get out from under my feet... I do this with the cat and the damn thing bites any part of me he can until I am no longer stepping on him LOL

I bet if that bobcat felt like doing something though you wouldn't be able to do to much to stop him lol not unless you want to lose a finger or worse.

(and no I do not beat my animals before anyone decides to go there but thanks)

reply posted on 22-10-2011 @ 12:34 AM by Bluesma

When you live in rural areas, you become very much aware of how much benefit there is to having these animals companions. If you live in an urban area, they don't serve as much more than emotional comfort.

But in the country, you have to have cats when you have a barn you store grain, hay, and straw in! The more the better.

Your dogs serve as alarms when someone is coming into your territory, night or day, they help you hunt, they help with rounding up the sheep or cattle, they help you find your way if you get lost in the forest or need to find lost livestock.

Horses help you get around in areas a car can't pass, and you don't need to carry gasoline with you. They can pull a plow, a cart.....here they often used to pull out big logs from the forest.

Goats provide milk and cheese, and are sometimes the only aid you can get in clearing out areas that get overun with bramble bushes.

Besides providing meat and an effective garbage disposal, pigs are useful for their sensitive nose and ability to find mushrooms and roots.

Cows, of course, provide milk and meat, but need a lot of land to feed off of.

Chickens provide eggs and meat and need little land or feed.

Here we even value spiders, because they build webs in the stables and catch the flies- I make sure not to kill them or ruin their webs.

All these would become very important partners for us if there was an EMP attack, for example.

reply posted on 22-10-2011 @ 01:58 AM by Evolutionsend

reply to post by dc4lifeskater

He would never bite me. He would also realize that if I stop him, it's for a good reason. I've never tried to stop him from being a bobcat, but I did keep him from fighting a dog once. He complied and let me carry him home. They're really very much like one of the more "dog-like" breeds of domestic cats. They do tear things up though. He'll eat your couch in 30 minutes or it's free! We had a dog door so he was aloud to leave when he wanted. Locking them up in a house is a good way to make the relationship between exotic cat and owner strained. Unless you have enough land around you to let the cat run free without running in to people, they're not good for you.

Domestic cats are too small to really cause damage, but overall they're very similar to domestic cats, right from the wild. He even does the moving his head into your hand trick when he wants to be petted. I don't think anyone did much to domesticate a cat, other than get them to live near people. Which isn't hard once you form a bond with them.

YouTube Link

Notice how she rubs her head on the owners hand like any other domestic cat. This one is a bit toothy, and needs a chew toy for training, but that's how they act minus the biting if you use the toy to avert the biting.

I know that exotic cats get a bad reputation for behaving differently, but most of it comes from cages. Lock your domestic cat in a cage and see how happy it is when it comes out. Cats do not do well in cages period.

edit on 22-10-2011 by Evolutionsend because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 22-10-2011 @ 02:04 AM by LeTan

One of my cats Claire, I have tested her willingness to protect me. I raised her since she was a kitten so she is very attached to me.

I would get my girlfriend to act like she was attacking me and making loud noises. I scream "help Claire! Help!"

Two out of three times, she came running with a warning meow, swiped at my girlfriend and hissed. After that, it's like she senses that we are just testing her, and she goes into a defensive position until I pet her and tell her it's okay.

I think in a real situation she would come to my defense.

reply posted on 22-10-2011 @ 02:13 AM by Bluesma

reply to post by Evolutionsend

That is beautiful! I want one!

I don't really see how we domesticated cats much- their behavior with us doesn't really change from the wild.
They have a nature that is compatible in most cases. They like to share affectionate contact with other members of their pride or mates, and that fits with us. They don't ever seem to really lose their independance and natural drives though. (which is exactly what I like about them!)

reply posted on 22-10-2011 @ 02:27 AM by Evolutionsend

reply to post by Bluesma

People shouldn't keep them as pets unless they have to. The average person fears them too much to raise one properly. They get one, it nibbles and breaks the skin, they want the teeth removed. They lock it in a cage. They treat the poor animal in ways that would bother even a domestic cat and then wonder why it doesn't work out. Here's another video of a bobcat that's a successful house cat.

YouTube Link

If it weren't for the size and the short tail, you could not tell the difference between a wild cat and a domestic one.

The biggest difference between a wild cat and a domestic one is biting. Some domestic cats still do this, but not very many. A bobcat or any wild cat will bite you until you train it not to. Not knowing how to train away the biting is the number one reason exotic cats end up in rescue organizations.

edit on 22-10-2011 by Evolutionsend because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 22-10-2011 @ 09:16 AM by Expat888

have a macaque who is good at gathering fruit from tree's (when not getting into mischief..) along with a couple cormorants who catch fish..
the animals in the jungle here also make an excellent early-warning system on the long shot chance of people wandering this far out..

reply posted on 22-10-2011 @ 10:06 AM by Greensage

reply to post by Evolutionsend

Nice clip! I bet that cat is declawed and had it's canines removed! How sweet! (sarcasm)

reply posted on 22-10-2011 @ 12:56 PM by Evolutionsend

reply to post by Greensage

I'm not sure why it would? Most animals with no claws or teeth have behavior problems, that one doesn't.

reply posted on 23-10-2011 @ 12:41 AM by Druid42

Dogs are loyal,
Cats are feral,
Dogs warn strangers,
Cats eat critters,
Dogs will come,
Cats will go,
so neither is better.

They both have a purpose.

I prefer Dogs.

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