Pennsylvania Welder Fights Eminent Domain, page 1

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Topic started on 21-10-2011 @ 07:02 PM by Veritas1

I just read this article, and I have to say it really makes me angry. I understand there are certain laws that have to be followed in America, but what gives them the right to decide that they can just take this guys shop? The money they offered him will only cover a fraction of the cost, however, sometimes its more than just about money. pittsburgh.cbslocal.com...

Bob Valerio’s father and uncle founded the business 60 years ago and it runs deep in the family’s bloodlines. “Well you know what it is when you have a family business,” Valerio said. “It’s not only a job – it’s a way of life.” Bob’s business now stands in the way of a $54 million expansion of the McKeesport Municipal Authority’s water and sewer system.

Last week, an acquisition agent came with an eviction notice and a $47,000 check which Bob says represents about 15 percent of what he needs to set up shop somewhere else. “And she came here with her pittance check and said, ‘Are you going to give me the keys?’ “And I said, ‘I don’t want your check and I’m not leaving.’” The authority is taking the property by the power of eminent domain which allows government agencies to seize private property for a greater public purpose. In this case, it is expanding treatment capacity to avoid sewage runoff into the waterways. But Bob says their offer is take it or leave it.

Here is a little bit about eminent domain -en.wikipedia.org...

The term "eminent domain" was taken from the legal treatise, De Jure Belli et Pacis, written by the Dutch jurist Hugo Grotius in 1625[1], who used the term dominium eminens (Latin for supreme lordship) and described the power as follows:

"... The property of subjects is under the eminent domain of the state, so that the state or he who acts for it may use and even alienate and destroy such property, not only in the case of extreme necessity, in which even private persons have a right over the property of others, but for ends of public utility, to which ends those who founded civil society must be supposed to have intended that private ends should give way. But it is to be added that when this is done the state is bound to make good the loss to those who lose their property."

Some U.S. states, including New York and Louisiana, use the term appropriation as a synonym for the exercising of eminent domain powers.

I am not sure about this, but its probably a little a different in each state. I understand there are times that something needs to be built and land is needed, but how far is too far? It seems to me that if a state wanted to build a freeway or something right through your land or your house, there is nothing you can do about it (I suppose you could fight it in court, as this man is doing. I really hope he wins his case).and this is the kind of thing that is wrong with government today. It seems as if they want to take much more than they give. I am pulling for this guy, and I hope he wins. Perhaps this represents all of those people who have made something of themselves by starting from scratch and pulling themselves up by the bootstraps (it is a family business). This is a perfect example of the little guy vs. the government.

edit on 21-10-2011 by Veritas1 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 07:05 PM by syrinx high priest

if the business is indeed profitable, that is an insulting offer, but if it is just breaking even, I bet it's a lot more than his granpappy had when he started the business 60 years ago, so he should just suck it up and go out and get it done

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 07:09 PM by Evolutionsend

reply to post by Veritas1

A welding shop that can be moved, or sewage treatment. I'd rather have the sewage out of my drinking water, than a welder. Move the shop to another spot and stop arguing. Publicity stunt.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 07:11 PM by Veritas1

reply to post by syrinx high priest

I can see your point, but its about more than money. Sometimes you just have to stick with your principles. Im not sure if he breaking even or not, but I admire him for standing up for what he believes in instead of being paid off (regardless of the consequences or being bought off.) Not everyone in the country are corporate whores who would sell out to the highest bidder.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 07:11 PM by Keeper of Kheb

Just put something thats endangered and you will have every activistsl and tree hugger in your support.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 07:20 PM by mileysubet

Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb
Just put something thats endangered and you will have every activistsl and tree hugger in your support.

And then they will shut down the welders business as well, because they will find it a threat to what ever endangered flora/fauna that lives there.

Not sure if that would be the best path to tread...

edit on 21-10-2011 by mileysubet because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 07:24 PM by Evolutionsend

reply to post by mileysubet

If it's been in the same spot for 60 years and he's not willing to move it, I'd say his business is the most endangered species there. He probably doesn't wanna move it because he can't afford the small hit he will take from a location change. He could sue the state, but I doubt that would go very far.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 07:34 PM by imawlinn

I'm not against eminent domain, what I am against is the strong arm-lowball tactics they use to push their plans forward. It doesn't matter if his business is profitable or not, 47,000 is a slap in the face. If the state or city needs ones property, they should pay fair market value. Period.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 07:37 PM by sicksonezer0

So, for the past 60 years that he paid business amd property tax, they can come in and probably give him some shavings from the revenue he generated.

Just goes to show, even when you "own" property, you are just a tenant, and if your fat slob landlord wants you out, then its time to pack up.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 08:35 PM by projectvxn

Eminent domain is among the biggest violations of the concept of the right to ones property that I can think of. This sort of practice should simply be abolished.

Fair market value seems to be whatever the government says it is.

With that in mind it is very hard for me to not be against this kind of property theft.

edit on 21-10-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 11:14 PM by DerepentLEstranger

reply to post by syrinx high priest

really now?

why won't the authorities simply point out that it's really their property and not his, and nobody in amerika owns property at all?

oh but that would be giving the game away.

why bother getting a mortgage and buying a home when it can be arbitrarily taken by force?

funny how the excuse that it's for the "benefit of society" is good for most,

until they're the ones violently thrown off their "property" and given a 10th of a penny on the dollar

he's in the way of the local authorities receiving a big pay off cough i mean "progress and the common god"

just like all those who lose their "property" when facilities for the olympics are being planned

eminent domain is just a load of BS that allows the local thugs to not have to pay the market value

IMO he should get the property appraised by an outside disinterested appraiser and insist on being paid current market value, then local mafia can't say he's refusing.

oh but then everybody else will want to be paid fairly

suck that up

edit on 21-10-2011 by DerepentLEstranger because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-10-2011 by DerepentLEstranger because: added edit and comment

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 11:16 PM by DerepentLEstranger

Originally posted by Evolutionsend
reply to post by Veritas1

A welding shop that can be moved, or sewage treatment. I'd rather have the sewage out of my drinking water, than a welder. Move the shop to another spot and stop arguing. Publicity stunt.

oh this is where you live then?

yes the Baroness would agree along with cobra comander

LOL

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 11:54 PM by Evolutionsend

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

What would you have happen? More taxpayers dollars spent on an entirely new sewage plant, or one welder move his shack somewhere else? Welder needs to move the shack and move on with life.

That thing is worth $47,000 on a good day. He's lucky to get that much from anyone. It's a shack.

edit on 21-10-2011 by Evolutionsend because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 22-10-2011 @ 01:14 AM by DerepentLEstranger

reply to post by Evolutionsend

that's what they all say

sure and rape victims were asking for it

when it happens to you

don't cry

just suck it in

a sewage plant that doesn't keep all the pharmaceuticals people piss into the water supply out

pfft

edit on 22-10-2011 by DerepentLEstranger because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 22-10-2011 @ 01:20 AM by Evolutionsend

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

I would make lemonade from the lemons and move to a bigger and better location, as long as my business was doing well. That place is a dump and in a bad location. He's not doing well or he would welcome the move.

I also think that $47,000 is a fair offer. He probably couldn't sell that place if he wanted to.

edit on 22-10-2011 by Evolutionsend because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 22-10-2011 @ 01:22 AM by cassandranova

The area where that is located has abysmal property prices, but that seems like quite a lowball figure. That said, there's no way a PA Court is going to decide against the authority here. In Pennsylvania, authorities have so much power it is absolutely absurd.

I'll give you an example from personal knowledge. A person has their car booted, towed, and then taken to a lot. They're charged $100 for the boot, $300 for towing, plus $40 each day for holding the car. The person files an appeal with the Court. When it finally gets to Court some months later, said car which was worth about $3,000 was still impounded.

The authority in question sought an amount greater than the price of the car for them holding it, and when the car owner said he couldn't pay that if he wanted to, they suggested they could sell the car and he'd refund them the difference.

Fortunately, it was thrown out though he did have to pay the towing fee and the cost of the original tickets, which were like $40. But it's just one more example of overreach, and if where I live is any example, one reason suburbanites don't go near the cities. The more broke they get, the more ridiculous the taxes, fines, and fees have become.

reply posted on 22-10-2011 @ 02:37 PM by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by Evolutionsend
reply to post by mileysubet

If it's been in the same spot for 60 years and he's not willing to move it, I'd say his business is the most endangered species there. He probably doesn't wanna move it because he can't afford the small hit he will take from a location change. He could sue the state, but I doubt that would go very far.

He should not have to take ANY hit on moving his business. That's the point. Can you afford it? If not, would you be happy with the situation?

He said 47 thousand would be about 15 % of what it would take to move his shop. You don't think he has looked into his options? He cannot move the building. He has to find new 1) property, with a 2) suitable building ( or build one) that is zoned for his type of shop then transfer 3) all his large heavy equipment, advertising etc - That is a huge undertaking. Property and buildings can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars aside from the transfer cost of his stuff. Not to mention the loss in business while all this is going on.

You keep referring to his place as a shack in your posts. How rude, how demeaning, how selfish. You simply cannot say its easy for him to move, it doesn't work this way. You obviously are not speaking from any real experience with business.

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