My dad believes that the Constitution is just fine without the Second Amendment

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posted on Oct, 21 2011 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by LeTan

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
reply to post by LeTan
 


sadly he believes that the 2nd amendment is outdated and can only apply to the 1700s-1800s


I did not realize freedoms could be outdated.


This one happens to refer to technology in distinction to others.

When a militia of regular men with long guns stood a good chance of fighting a professional army (especially if they were less-than-well-motivated mercenaries or conscripts, as was often the case then), the original purpose of the 2nd amendment had substantial potency.

Today, it isn't even remotely close.




posted on Oct, 21 2011 @ 08:21 PM
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Ever seen that show Jerchio? If you haven't its on Netflix if you have that good show. Anywho during one episode this guy was at a conference that was rewriting the constitution(I don't ruin the series if you plan to see plus it'll take a lot of explaining) the first thing the got rid of was the second amendment. One of the main characters remarked -

"It's a lot easier to pacify a country when its citizens can't shoot back"

Thats why we have the second Amendment. Though through government campaigning they have convinced us were not responsible enough to have guns.
edit on 10/21/2011 by Mcupobob because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2011 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by starwarsisreal
 


Guess what - one of the best things about America is that everyone can have their own opinion.



posted on Oct, 22 2011 @ 02:25 AM
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reply to post by Praetorius
 


unfortunatly the kind of stories that you speak of suprisingly dont make the news (imagine that) yet they take and blow up every minor incident to be something more than what it is so that they can further the agendas of the anti gun politicians. There are several instances when guns do what they are designed to do but the powers that be keep them out of the public eye. OP your dad chooses to be ignorant and believe that we dont need the second amendment. His tune will change when those government powers that he believes so strongly will protect him are beating down his door and taking all of the other rights that he feals are needed away from him because he wouldnt stand up for the Right that would have allowed him to keep those other rights. Hope he wakes up soon.



posted on Oct, 22 2011 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by AurelioMaghe

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
How can I be safe if some jerk decide to show up.

Well friend, you'd do it the european way, beg for mercy and cry like a little girl hoping the crackhead doesn't rape your sister mother and wife before slaughtering ya'll..
Guns are evil!
edit on 21-10-2011 by AurelioMaghe because: (no reason given)


Stars for a racist comment? How unsurprising...

The European way is to have illegal guns sold by criminal gangs or knives.

Then again, more burglars in European homes end up beaten to death with bare hands or a solid object rather than shot by a nation too hung up on having every single gun possible hanging in the kitchen.

Or should we start the world's major wars first before we can claim pretend superiority over every other country?

As for the OP, you really don't need guns because as we've seen with gang wars all over the world for decades, a stray bullet can kill or injure an innocent and knowing one person has a gun leads to two more wanting a bigger weapon etc. I agree with your dad. What if an intruder that you shoot turns out to be a drunken relative stumbling about in the dark and you spend the rest of your life in jail on first degree murder charges? What then? Will you still disagree with your dad's views and call him a lunatic while you're lying in your cell at night crying while Big Hank keeps eyeballing you?



posted on Oct, 22 2011 @ 05:58 PM
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So, what does your Mother think about things?
Your significant other? Your boss?



posted on Oct, 23 2011 @ 02:35 AM
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reply to post by curious7
 


European is not a race and Europe is not a country.



posted on Oct, 23 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by curious7
What if an intruder that you shoot turns out to be a drunken relative stumbling about in the dark and you spend the rest of your life in jail on first degree murder charges? What then? Will you still disagree with your dad's views and call him a lunatic while you're lying in your cell at night crying while Big Hank keeps eyeballing you?


Never thought of it that way, lol. I laugh when people say that students carrying guns would end school massacres, sounds more like the cops aren't going to know which gunman is the shooter and which is "not being a victim" = more people being shot by police. Oh and I forgot, when everyone has a gun, all of the sudden everyone is a god damn hero.



posted on Oct, 23 2011 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by adeclerk
 


Did you read about the Anders guy in Norway a few months back who was able to kill 69 Labour activists on that tiny island just because he was the only one with a rifle?
Just one of them with a gun may have stopped him.
You people are just phased out from reality.



posted on Oct, 23 2011 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by AurelioMaghe
reply to post by adeclerk
 


Did you read about the Anders guy in Norway a few months back who was able to kill 69 Labour activists on that tiny island just because he was the only one with a rifle?
Just one of them with a gun may have stopped him.
You people are just phased out from reality.


So because of that, everyone should have rifles? Especially all of those teenagers who were on the island? Come on, that's not good support for your argument. It would be like me claiming the Waco incident is support for gun control. Step it up.



posted on Oct, 23 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by adeclerk

So because of that, everyone should have rifles?

The point is they couldn't have had rifles even if they wanted or needed them.
They were, just like other millions of europeans, at the mercy of every crazy person who's able to illegaly purchase a firearm.
After this I do not intend to continue debating the issue with you.
No point. Your (and I mean the entire gun banning front) position is just not rational .
edit on 23-10-2011 by AurelioMaghe because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2011 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by starwarsisreal
Recently I have a debate with my dad over gun rights. He told me although he profess to be an American and supports free speech and other amendemnts he believes that the second amendment should be removed. I tried to counter it by saying that it could protect him from tyranny and crime but he told me that there is really no need for guns let the cops, soldiers, FBI, DHS,ATF etc have the guns, after all guns should be in the hands of professionals. As for tyranny he laugh off and said tyranny will not happen. Even after a criminal incident my neighborhood he is still not convinced. I am only 16 (Turning 17 Nov) I am a supporter of gun rights and I am concerned about the safety of my family. How can I be safe if some jerk decide to show up.


Anti-gun laws would not keep guns out of the hands of criminals....hence why we call them criminals. Anti-gun laws only punish law-abiding citizens.



posted on Oct, 23 2011 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by starwarsisreal
 


One thing you and your dad must learn is the second amendment does NOT give you any rights. You have the right to bear arms and protect your self the second amendment only protects that right you already have.

And criminals don't care about gun laws they will still have them, so we must be able to protect our self's .
Your dad may have a false dream that many do thinking it would be great if only the law had guns.(look into history and see the mass murder because of this)

And some people believe no one should have a gun that there should be no guns at all. But there will always be guns and evil people to use them against people who can not protect them self's

as far as


tyranny will not happen
It has and will again.

Cops don't stop crime they investigate the crime after the fact so remember in a life and death situation when seconds count the police are minutes away!



posted on Oct, 23 2011 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by starwarsisreal
Recently I have a debate with my dad over gun rights. He told me although he profess to be an American and supports free speech and other amendemnts he believes that the second amendment should be removed. I tried to counter it by saying that it could protect him from tyranny and crime but he told me that there is really no need for guns let the cops, soldiers, FBI, DHS,ATF etc have the guns, after all guns should be in the hands of professionals. As for tyranny he laugh off and said tyranny will not happen. Even after a criminal incident my neighborhood he is still not convinced. I am only 16 (Turning 17 Nov) I am a supporter of gun rights and I am concerned about the safety of my family. How can I be safe if some jerk decide to show up.


Join the military, leave home, get away from your dad as soon as you can.
He sounds like a grade A sheep.



posted on Oct, 23 2011 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by AurelioMaghe
 


You obviously haven't seen the decrease in gun related crime when firearms are banned.
edit on 21-10-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)


You obviously haven't seen the increase in gun crime in places like the UK, SA, Jamaica etc. Places where no right to self-defence with firearms in a public place exist. No Castle Law either.

Btw in Europe Czech Republic / Switzerland has self defence CCW with a firearm. No increase in crime there

Yet according to the liberals that should lead to an increase... Guess what? No increase



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 01:01 AM
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Here's the beauty of the 2nd amendment... You have the choice to own a gun or to not own one. Leave it at that. There is no need to take away my choice in the matter just because you don't like my choice. That isn't freedom. That's getting to be a huge problem, rather than enjoying freedom people want to force their choice on others because they believe it's correct. Leave the 2nd amendment alone and make your own choice without trying to make my choice for me.

I can tell you this, if you take away the ability of private citizens to own firearms then only one type of private citizen owns them, criminals. It's not meant to be humorous, as in I wouldn't part with mine so I'd be a criminal. It's meant to reflect the unsavory types who are going to have guns regardless of what the law is because they are going to use them for criminal purposes. I don't like the thought of that. Those guys being the only ones armed. If Bob wants to rob a convenience store and he wants to use a gun he's going to buy it legally? Hell no. He doesn't want it to be traced. He's going to go black market, which he'd do anyway regardless of the 2nd amendment.

I pose a legal question. The constitution prohibits government from taking away our inalienable rights. The Bill of Rights. To be technical the Bill of rights doesn't grant us those rights it simply acknowledges them. I believe that those 1st ten amendments, our bill of rights identifies our rights which are beyond the scope of government to change. Anything else isn't relevant. I'm not sure that even if someone wanted the 2nd amendment repealed that it's even possible. I also imagine that if there was some legal trickery that did allow it, then the government would understand in short order why we have the right to bear arms. You'd see a 2nd American civil war.

Bottom line, if you don't like guns, don't own one. Don't try to prevent people who aren't bothering anyone from owning one too.



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 11:24 AM
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Well friend, you'd do it the european way, beg for mercy and cry like a little girl hoping the crackhead doesn't rape your sister mother and wife before slaughtering ya'll.. Guns are evil!


See... This is why the rest of the world hates the USA.



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by AurelioMaghe
 


Not rational? Probably not related to crime being higher in areas with more gun ownership. Here's a link.



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by starwarsisreal
 


He would be mistaken.

The second amendment is the guarantor of all the others. The threat that the govt. must take seriously. ...and make no mistake, the second amendment is just that, a threat to any would be tyrant.

No the constitution wouldn't be "just fine". Which one is next? The fifth? The fourth? You might ask him that, the next time you talk with him.



posted on Oct, 24 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by seagull
The second amendment is the guarantor of all the others. The threat that the govt. must take seriously. ...and make no mistake, the second amendment is just that, a threat to any would be tyrant.

That's fallacious, you seem to be suggesting that guns are the only way a group can stay in power. Obviously that is wrong, governments and rights have existed since before guns.

Originally posted by seagull

No the constitution wouldn't be "just fine". Which one is next? The fifth? The fourth? You might ask him that, the next time you talk with him.

Slippery slope fallacy based on absolutely nothing.



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