My dad believes that the Constitution is just fine without the Second Amendment

reply to post by starwarsisreal


Your dad feeling the 2nd Amendment should be removed from the Constitution is fine. He should contact his representatives in Washington and ask to have a bill drafted and submitted to have the American public vote on a new Amendment to the Constitution to repeal the 2nd Amendment. That's the procedures laid out in the Constitution to amend it.

reply to post by Praetorius


Because in the unlikely case that they need help, they deserve to die because they're against the 2nd amendment. And you'll be watching them die just because they have a different opinion about this. You seem like a true patriot, supporting your country and fellow citizen...oh....wait

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by AurelioMaghe

 

You obviously had'nt seen the decrease in gun related crime when firearms are banned.

Do those statistics take into account the number of murders accomplished with other instruments i.e. knives in the absense-for regular folks-of firearms?
Also, it is entirely possible that armed robbery would end less in bloodshed without avaliable firearms -for the general non criminal public.
The point is, is it desireable to be completely defenseless against criminals?
Would you prefer risking your life trying to defend your loved ones and your property or be at the complete mercy of criminals which probably won't kill you instead rape you, torture you and beat you up?
I chose the former.

I don't own a fire arm but I do feel the 2nd amendment serves a purpose.
To insure all the other amendments are supported.
Nazi Germany disarmed their populous and by the time the holocaust
happened little to no resistance could be offered and history has a nasty way
of repeating itself.

As to your dad believing that tyranny can't happen he must have been asleep for the last ten years.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by AurelioMaghe

 

You obviously haven't seen the decrease in gun related crime when firearms are banned.

edit on 21-10-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)

Your right, and neither have you or anyone else. Main reason is because it is a blatant lie. Here is one good example.

To those who've heard the repetitive song of the gun control crowd, the hysterical refrain is a familiar one: "more handguns and more freedom will lead to more crime and more violence."

Since the landmark Supreme Court decisions that struck down restrictive gun ban laws in Washington, D.C. and Chicago, the "more-guns-equals-more-crime" contingent has predicted soaring murder and violent crime rates. Anti-gun politicians and their media sycophants decried the Supreme Court's rulings and assured us that mayhem would follow.

Guess what? They were wrong. Again.

According to a September 30 FoxNews.com opinion piece by John Lott, newly released data for Chicago shows that, as in Washington, murder and gun crime rates didn't rise after the bans were eliminated--they plummeted. In fact, they have fallen much more than the national crime rate.

So what have the naysayers said about this positive trend? Nothing. Not a peep.

According to Lott, in the first six months of this year, there were 14 percent fewer murders in Chicago compared to the first six months of last year (when owning handguns was illegal), which marks the largest drop in Chicago's murder rate since the handgun ban went into effect in 1982. Similarly, in the year after the 2008 Heller decision, the murder rate in Washington, D.C., fell two-and-a-half times faster than in the rest of the country.

Source

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Praetorius

 

Because in the unlikely case that they need help, they deserve to die because they're against the 2nd amendment. And you'll be watching them die just because they have a different opinion about this. You seem like a true patriot, supporting your country and fellow citizen...oh....wait

Of course they don’t deserve to die. They deserve to have their neighbor risk his/her life to come over and save them because they were too ignorant to defend themselves adequately. That makes a lot of sense!

These are probably the same neighbors who expect the government to show up and save them from natural disasters. To those people I say - If you’re too dumb to protect yourself and your family then you’re too dumb for me to risk my life saving you. You made your bed…now lie in it.

reply to post by AurelioMaghe


Not necessarily in all of Europe.

The Swiss have a volunteer army and all adult Men are issued a nice SIG 550 Assault Rifle, similar to an M4....

While visiting friends there....I discovered it standing right in their coat closet.
It caught me by surprise when they explained why it was there.

Beautiful country but they also have little if any crime there to speak of.

Peace

As this always seems to come back to guns.. I might point out that the 2nd ammendment is not about guns.. it's about Arms. Guns, of course, are the most popular these days, but revoking the 2nd ammendment would also mean exposing crossbows, compound bows, bo-staves, nunchucks, machettes, swords, maces, axes, etc. to government restrictions.

I have met gun haters who owned less conventional weapons.. they hate guns, but they fully support the 2nd ammendment.

reply to post by TsukiLunar
I'd like to see some substantiation of that claim honestly - regardless, if true, these are usually offset by increases in violent crime in general, as well as gun suicide decreases being more than offset by larger overall increases in general suicide rates (at least in the case of Australia after the buyback).

You have to remember, only law-abiding citizens obey the law, so when you've successfully disarmed them, then only the criminals are left armed.

That being said, this is a very complex issue that takes a lot of digging to get to the truth of the matter. It is however interesting the the UK tops the US in most categories of crime based on the info here at nationmaster.com.

Take care.

Also, the gun ban in Europe is complete bs.
I can literally drive 5 minutes from my house and buy a beretta from gypsies. 10 mins from Albanian low level mobsters. 500€ more or less.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by AurelioMaghe

 

You obviously haven't seen the decrease in gun related crime when firearms are banned.

edit on 21-10-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)

Oh just like how alcohol was banned.....oh wait....

That didn't do so well did it?

Banning something doesn't make it unavailable, just makes it harder and illegal to get.

Which last time I checked the black market for guns, still exists....reminds me of the Mexico drug gun running the U.S. Corp. was doing a few weeks ago.

Still think we are better off without guns now?

And to the OP The second Amendment is fairly important, your dad can not think so, but there are plenty of cases in which a gun saved peoples lives.

There was a case last year or so on ATS of a man who lived in Chicago, where pistols are illegal, but had one and got into a fire fight in his own home with a robber and won because he had a gun.

If he had called the police and waited he and his wife would be dead.

Point is, guns will be obtained no matter what, having a gun is better then not in case of an emergency situation arises and your left with just kitchen knives.

Last I heard bringing a knife to a gun fight is not a bright idea.

Good topic OP.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Praetorius

 

Because in the unlikely case that they need help, they deserve to die because they're against the 2nd amendment. And you'll be watching them die just because they have a different opinion about this. You seem like a true patriot, supporting your country and fellow citizen...oh....wait

And you seem like someone who truly appreciates dark comedy.

My apologies if that wasn't obvious enough. It's meant to emphasize a point and not be taken seriously - there's not much quite so delicious as someone realizing they were wrong when saved by something they're opposed to.

reply to post by starwarsisreal


Yo ask your Dad why the hell America hasn't been invaded yet. It's because everyone else knows, or thinks that almost every american citizen is armed. How are you going to invade a country like that. Ask him if he's ever been to a country that outlaws guns except to the authorities. When you outlaw guns, the only people who have guns are the outlaws. Yea you know thats a good idea lets outlaw guns, so only the criminals have guns. Then whenever they decide to rob you they can come in your house, you won't be able to do anything since you have a gun in your face, good work! Now I get where he's goin which is a world where we don't need guns, but unfortunately we need another 1000-2000 years of evolution before people are smart enough not to shoot each other, until then you can bet i got my guns

Salami slicing, get rid of one and the rest will, indeed, follow. The second amendment is crucial to stop tyranny, this is why it exists. If you take away peoples right to bear arms then you end up with one side with arms and one without, and look at 9/11. The government were complicit in this operation, it killed thousands of people, do you want people who are willing to kill thousands the only ones to bear arms? Where dows this leave society but in the iron gripping hands of killers?

reply to post by SpaDe_

According to a September 30 FoxNews.com opinion piece...

A Fox "News" opinion piece? I guess it must be true

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/662bdcc23a13.jpg[/atsimg]

Fox, with their incredibly high standards of journalistic integrity can't be wrong or spread nonsense based on pre-conceived notions...so it MUST be the truth!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8aa8a90fae13.png[/atsimg]

Ups

I suppose the Constitution is fine without the second amendment if one first assumes that criminals are just misunderstood, disadvantaged or otherwise 'lost' and are capable of compassion and empathy. Who would need to actually shoot a criminal who is in the process of victimizing you, right? Afterall, their internal sense of humanity will prevent them from ruthlessly murdering you, as a living witness who can easily see they serve years if not more in Prison.

I don't think this is at all realistic and reflects a rather 'Rosey Red Glasses' look to the world around us. In the purely academic world and on the clean lines of a sheet of paper, the whole idea makes sense....but in the brutal reality of street crime, it's terminally naive. Not every Capital Murderer is an injustice just waiting to be corrected. In fact, a VERY SMALL % of them are true miscarriages of justice, as opposed to simply avoiding a mistake on technical issues.

Evil exists and monsters exist in the real world around us, in my opinion. The only response to stop such evil when it has turned it's black eyes upon you is to meet it with equal force as was intended for yourself. Sadly, given the number of murders and lack of defense in such a large number of them, this is a lesson often learned in the final moments of a person's time on Earth.

Those of us who believe in the 2nd amendment and exercise our rights aren't weird or crazy. We simply learned that lesson by one experience or another...perhaps a combination of them, without having to die for it, IMHO.

Uh, let your dad know that the only reason the Constitution is enforceable is because of the second. With out it, it truly becomes that "just a goddamn piece of paper...", as one president so eloquently put it, not long after swearing to uphold and protect it...

Or better yet, and no offense meant to you, but instead, just tell him to move to Europe, where good upstanding citizens don't own weapons. Then he'll only have to worry about the folks who want to use their illegal firearms to cause him harm...

It sounds so petulant and naive when considering the sacrifices our troops made in WWII.

Never forget.

After WWII, a Japanese General was asked why Japan did NOT attack the US mainland. His response 'it would be futile. Behind every blade of grass there would be a gun."

"Gun free" zones are open invites for mayhem. An armed society is a polite one.

reply to post by starwarsisreal
Listen to your father. You have two years until your 18. Then you'll be able to make your own decisions based on your dad, outside sources. I may not agree with him, but that's the beauty of freedom.

Everyone has a voice,