F-88 vs. M4, page 1
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Topic started on 30-8-2004 @ 10:19 PM by Ezekial
I have been wondering for a while now about the differences between the bullpup design of the F-88 Styr and the full barrel length of the M4.

I absolutely love the F-88s design and function, the idea of having a small sized rifle while keeping a full length barrel.

Some specs:

Weight:
Aug 417: 7.96 lbs
Aug 508: 8.38 lbs
Aug HBAR: 10.78 lbs

Mag empty 30 rounds .27 lbs

Length

16 in barrel- 27 Inches
20 in barrel- 31 Inches
24 in barrel -35.5 Inches

Mechanical Features-
Rifling- 1-9" or 1-7"

Muzzle velocity is 980 M/x or 3215 FPS.
Circle rate of fire automatic- 680-850 RPM
Semi- auto fire approx - 150 rounds / min theoretical.



Steyr AUG is one of the most advanced and reliable rifles in the world. Australian Army was the first major nation to adopt AUG as its main infantry rifle. When the initial trials began, many people were sceptical about performance of this "plastic" rifle. The Steyr , which is manufactured locally in Australia under a licence name F-88 is made of polymers which resemble steel in their durability.

The testing which was conducted on the AUG actually cost nearly as much as developing the rifle itself! It was the first "tourture-testing" of its kind. During this , the rifles were fired underwater, immersed in mud for days and then fired, put in ovens for days at a time and then fired , a Unimog was driven over one F-88 30 times before anything snapped and even than the rifle was able to fire, metal rods were hammered into the barrel and than the guns were fired.

Finally the Steyr AUG was given to the hardest climate on earth - Australian outback - even there the rifles performed flawlessly. This reliability can probably only be matched by the AK or in any case very few weapons.

There has been several myths about Steyrs "melting" during firing - these are largely myths. The only case which I am aware of a Steyr actually melting was in 1995 in Singleton.

It occurred during a battalion firing exercise. After the shoot was over , one of the firing range safety officers collected all spare ammunition he could find - 25 magazines in all. He fired them one after the other on full-automatic. Needless to say the gun jammed due to the barrel expanding from all the heat generated and part of the polymer stock melted. It was than estimated that the rifle heated up to 500 degrees Celsius - conventional rifles would jam long before that. Other than in the extreme case stated above , the F-88 is not prone to "just melt".

An interesting features of F-88 are the integrated scope and the fire selection mechanism. The scope is factory set and embedded into the carrying handle - it magnifies 2.5X and has an aiming circle instead of the standard cross-hairs. This helps to shoot with both eyes open and aids in instinctive shooting.

F-88 has no actual selector switch. Safety is arranged by a button in the side of the gun but the selector itself is integrated into the trigger group. When the trigger is depressed half-way single shots are fired. When the trigger is pressed all the way back full-automatic shots are fired. This also aids in instinctive shooting - if a soldier is suddenly confronted by an enemy at close range , he is more likely to squeeze the trigger all the way back, while if the enemy is further away , deliberate aimed shots can be fired. This is a potentially life-saving device.


Here is a picture of the whole Steyr family:



On the other hand I have never used or even touched an M4, how well is it balanced? Anyone who has experience with the M4 care to reply and help me here?


reply posted on 30-8-2004 @ 11:46 PM by Ezekial



reply posted on 31-8-2004 @ 12:58 AM by Ezekial
As I am no longer in the Defence Force (Air Force, but I used the F88 regularly) I am finding it tough with the current gun laws, and I am quite lazy when it comes to attaining a High Class licence (whatever it's called - didn't need a Firearms licence for DF ).

AUG User Manual - they have a user manual for the F88.

$4000 is extremely expensive, I had haerd a while ago from a rather shifty friend that they are sometimes sold for $1500 - $2500 here is Oz. I don't trust him of where they come from.

Heres an interesting peice of trivia/news:
Every now and then a number of Biker clubs try a raid of Kapooka Recruit Training Wing for some reason, probably to steal rifles, this is the stupidest thing one can do. Think, a base that has 4 Companies, each with 3 Platoons, each platoon has roughly 25-30 soldiers. There are more than enough firepower handy that each soldier can have one F88 per hand. It's ludacris. a mate of mine was there training recruits a while ago when this happened - they didn't get past the gate guards (there is a little 'town' of staff housing outside the gates, and all of these service men have their own private weapons too, I don't know who got the Bikers, but if they got in they would have to get through the Gate, the Jail, then over a hill and then be fa ed by 4 Companies of eager young recruits. Hmm, I really went out on some weird tanget there, nevermind.


reply posted on 15-12-2008 @ 03:31 AM by C0bzz
reply to post by phayce



Nah in CS the M4 is better. But seriously, I've only fired the F-88 not the M4 ( In real life ), so I don't know. :S


reply posted on 31-5-2010 @ 05:08 PM by maddog44
I have been involved with the F88 sin 1990 when posted to Townsville in Queensland Australia. The main bugs that had to be ironed out were:
1. Flash suppressor would unscrew and you would end up with it either taking off down range or be able to unscrew off easily.
2. The barrel collet on the receiver would loosen.
3. The sight retical would rotate when firing.
4. The ejection port would chip away when using blank.
5. The magazine will eventually crack at the top edges that hold in the rounds.
6. We had gas plugs that were drilled in the wrong place. Set to adverse and it was actuall Grenade setting. (so all gas went out of barrel).
7. had return springs that were not tempered properly. (squashed down when fired and not return).
8. The early weapon training we received had us slamming the barrel into the receiver and twisting it in. This caused gring and chipping and eventually cracking or busting off retainer at the front of the receiver.
9. When going through a live fire obstacle cse. Found telescopic sight useless unless you could score some scope covers used when weapons first delivered in packaging. (Held front and back with hootchie cord.). If you had mud in scope, scraping it out damaged lenses easily.
10. After firing automatic for extended time, would melt foregrip.
11. Sometimes foregrip spring would break and you end up with the grip in your hand.
12. If using the carbine version, keep foregrip down as you can get your fingers burnt if not.

If all things are o.k. with your rifle. Not a bad weapon. Managed personally to get 55mm group with 20 shots at 100ms. When cleaning gas system etc. with any weapon I found CLR Clear works well in getting off the carbon. (Ensure you oil parts well after using it.Oh yeah don't get caught using it by the olds and bolds. They don't understand that the cleaner does not harm metal and you'll probably get the "Back in the good old days we used to rub the piston on concrete or in the dirt.")
Hope this helps.
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