Libya plans secret burial for Muammar Gaddafi, Bury At Sea, page 3

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reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 05:40 AM by ludwigvonmises003

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter

You are wasting your time son.He's is a thorough neocon troll.Thanks to his kind,USA has lost all freedoms and turned into a warfare-welfare state.These neocons don't represent the common american man,they represent banking interests of the elite.

Don't judge us on the basis of american govt.People in Texas are fed up with the corporate empire and soon will revolt for independence from this fascist police state.Its good,Texas has nukes too,if the fascist NATO and american army tries to crush the revolt,we Texans will launch the nuclear arsenal against NATO and the american corporate empire.Nukes keep the zionists at bay and if Iran is building nukes,I totally support them and their right to live,which the zionist interest are hellbent on destroying.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 05:40 AM by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by Xcathdra

Xcathdra you and i want over this before the rebels are the terrorists i have seen footages of the rebels been given NATO weapons, they dont have AK47s they have the least NATO arms in there hands, thats some have called them NATO Rats.

You still have avoided the issue of the Gold Dinnar that Gaddafi planned and that the fact the west has huge oil contracts now.
edit on 21-10-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)

i have not ignored anything. You linked me to a blogpost with some guy talking about conspiracies. You continue to make these claims about the rebels, and yet you fail to provide any source material to support your claims?

Why? Is it because you dont have any sources to back your claims? Or are your sources questionable? Since you absolutely refuse to tell us, we can only guess. What NATO arms? What types? where did they come from? source / link for the accusation please.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 05:44 AM by Xcathdra

reply to post by ludwigvonmises003

Ignorance for the win. You really should take some time to read and understand my posts before commenting. It will reduce the chances of you looking like a fool when you make a claim thats not true.

All I did was challenge some of his "facts" and asked him to provide sources to back them up. Are you and him that afraid that you wont being able to support your claims? As an example, instead of participating and offering Agent help by providing your sources, you instead attack me.

Divert attention, launch personal attacks that arent true, and look what we have - you.

How about you prove me wrong and answer the questions -
How many people have the rebels kileed - source / links
How many people have Ghadaffi killed? source / links please
how many people have Nato killed? source / links please
Why would they fake Ghadaffis death?
Why are mruders under ghadaffi excused yet you guys take exception to rebels murders?

Neocon? Not even close my misguided out of touch friend. Exactly how does Obama fit into your agenda since he is the one behind Libya? Or is that something you ignore and blame on republicans?

edit on 21-10-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 05:44 AM by ludwigvonmises003

reply to post by Xcathdra

and on what basis do you claim Ghaddafi killed 2k? NTC islamist al qaeda lies?

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 05:47 AM by lifeissacred

reply to post by Flint2011

The word from the NTC is that he was captured alive and then died in a shootout between the rebels who captured him and loyalists who opened fire.

Acting Prime Minister Mahmoud Jibril said Col Gaddafi had been shot in the head in an exchange of fire between Gaddafi loyalists and NTC fighters following his capture in his hometown of Sirte

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 05:49 AM by backinblack

reply to post by ludwigvonmises003

Yep, uncle sam poster child.

If they're so desperate for links then why don't they do their own search instead of asking others??

Seems like having an opinion even needs proof and a link..

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 05:50 AM by Xcathdra

Originally posted by ludwigvonmises003
reply to post by Xcathdra

and on what basis do you claim Ghaddafi killed 2k? NTC islamist al qaeda lies?

UN High Comission on Human rights
Red Cross / Red Crescent
People looking for lost family members
Soldier reports

Also, way to avoid the question by asking a question.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 05:52 AM by ludwigvonmises003

reply to post by backinblack

the corporate media has no credibility.They are worse than Soviet era Pravda and frankly alternative media like globalresearch,voltairenet and RussiaToday have exposed the level of propaganda on Libya. Western media is parroting islamist controlled NTC lies as facts.

I never dreamt that USA the home of free and land of brave would morph into a combination of worst characteristics of Nazi Germany and Soviet Union.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 05:53 AM by Xcathdra

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by ludwigvonmises003

Yep, uncle sam poster child.

If they're so desperate for links then why don't they do their own search instead of asking others??

Seems like having an opinion even needs proof and a link..

We do, and when we cant find any sources that supports the claim, we ask. Since we dont find any, its reasonable to ask the person who made the claim for their source, and when they cant even accomplish that simple request, then we just assume its a made up lie by people who arent familiar with the difference between a free press with independant thought and some person stuck in the 4th century mindset where they only beleive what they are told and no amount of evidence will change that.

Also, please learn the difference between an opinion and a fact and how to make a statement using both.

edit on 21-10-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 05:53 AM by lifeissacred

reply to post by backinblack

No, the problem is people have routinely posted on this subject over the past 24 hours hurling accusations back and forth at each other about Gaddafis actions etc without citing any sources. The point is, some people may not know about a specific incident/event which is being referred to and that has the potential to cause unnescessary arguements, hence why it is useful to source as much information as possible.

One of the primary reasons I use this site is to learn about current events, it's all well people debating current events in these threads but when it is done so without evidence or citations then the information loses credibility.

edit on 21-10-2011 by lifeissacred because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 05:56 AM by Flint2011

reply to post by lifeissacred

I will have to reasearch that as it's one of 2 stories I have heard now. I am leaning towards believing they just murdered the man after they captured him myself. I guess the truth is not coming to light very easily. Will have to wait and see if anything viable is confirmed. Thanks for the follow up.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 05:57 AM by backinblack

reply to post by Xcathdra

As I stated early though, most of these sources on both sides show very little actual proof..

Kinda makes it hard to get to the truth either way...

Like they found mass graves but where's the proof Gaddafi was directly responsible?

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 05:58 AM by Agent_USA_Supporter

reply to post by Xcathdra

who made the claim for their source, and when they cant even accomplish that simple request, then we just assume its a made up lie by people who arent familiar with the difference between a free press with independant thought and some person stuck in the 4th century mindset where they only beleive what they are told and no amount of evidence will change that.

free press

There hasnt been a free press since the 1960s

thought and some person stuck in the 4th century mindset where they only beleive what they are told and no amount of evidence will change that.

No offense but someone like you who believes the rebels are saints? and once again you avoided the issue i posted on of about Gaddafi planned the Gold dinnar that was typical.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 05:58 AM by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Flint2011
reply to post by lifeissacred

I will have to reasearch that as it's one of 2 stories I have heard now. I am leaning towards believing they just murdered the man after they captured him myself. I guess the truth is not coming to light very easily. Will have to wait and see if anything viable is confirmed. Thanks for the follow up.

The differeing stories on his death have prompted the UN to ask the rebels to be truthful in their accounts so they have an accurate explanation of how he died. The manner of his death changed throughout the day so its a resonable request. It doesnt change the fact he is dead though.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 05:58 AM by ludwigvonmises003

reply to post by Xcathdra

they are not mass graves,I had provided you links ,only 125 dead/killed by Ghadafi men ,not 2k like your sources.I had referred this issue in previous thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
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Mass graves of recent vintage have indeed been found — 13 of them confirmed by the Red Cross, or “about 20” found by the government, according to the Transitional National Council’s humanitarian coordinator, Muattez Aneizi. More are being found “nearly every day,” Mr. Aneizi said.

“Mass” is slightly misleading, however, because the largest actual grave site found so far, in the Nafusah Mountains of western Libya, had 34 bodies. In many of the others, the victims numbered only in the single digits. Many are not even graves, but rather containers or buildings where people were executed and their bodies left to rot.

The Red Cross counted only 125 dead from the 13 sites it confirmed, with 53 of those found in a hangar near Tripoli’s airport. While the rebels may not have died in the numbers their side has claimed, there is no doubt that many were killed, often horribly, after having been taken prisoner. As the Qaddafi government collapsed and its die-hards fled from Tripoli and other strongholds, such war crimes happened in many well-documented cases. They just did not happen in many thousands of cases, judging from the available evidence.

There has been no explanation of the basis for either the council’s tally of 30,000 to 50,000 dead, or the number preferred by the new government’s minister of health, Naji Barakat, a more modest 25,000 to 30,000.

At the Ministry of Health, Mohammed al-Ghazwi, who leads a newly formed Committee on the Dead, charged with confirming death tolls from the conflict, was reluctant to give any numbers out. “Every day we find another grave, so I can’t give you a specific number,” Mr. Ghazwi said. “But it’s about twenty-five to thirty thousand, like the minister of health said.”

Asked how many of those were based on documented cases of dead found so far, he said they were many fewer, but he could not give a number. “It’s very hard to tell the real number because during the Qaddafi time they hid all of them,” Mr. Ghazwi said.

-------
www.informationclearinghouse.info...

mathaba.net...

and yes yahoo,guardian are corporate owned media.I do not accept them as credible.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 05:59 AM by backinblack

reply to post by lifeissacred

One of the primary reasons I use this site is to learn about current events, it's all well people debating current events in these threads but when it is done so without evidence or citations then the information loses credibility.

Well what sites would you consider 100% believable?
I don't think I know of one...

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 06:00 AM by Agent_USA_Supporter

reply to post by backinblack

Like they found mass graves but where's the proof Gaddafi was directly responsible?

Thats the point Xcathdra doesnt seem to get and most of these graves the bodies on them kinda looked fresh not old because the bones had black crisp burns on them.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 06:01 AM by Xcathdra

reply to post by backinblack

The proof you are looking for is the decomposition of the bodies found. When someone is dead, they dont decompose to just bones in a matter of days or weeks. Enviornmental conditions play a huge part in determining a timeline. The more arid / dry a location is, the longer it will take for decomposition to set in. the mass graves found and the conditions of the bodies pretty much make it impossible to pin the deaths to the rebels.

One of the mass graves has been dated back to the mid 1990's.

To make the claim that some of the mass graves might be new and caused by the rebels is a valid thought. To make the claim that ghadaffi is not responsible for them and placing all the blame on the rebels is not valid, and the evidence doesnt support that claim.

Regardless if its 1 person or 1k people, its one death to many, and trying to justify ghadaffis deaths with those of the rebels is just ridiculous.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 06:02 AM by ludwigvonmises003

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter

Xcahtrdra has been spewing propaganda.Investigation confirmed only 125 dead,not 2k like western media says.

reply posted on 21-10-2011 @ 06:02 AM by lifeissacred

reply to post by backinblack

Exactly, no information is entirely credible unless it's from the 'horses mouth', but unless people gather their sources and try to piece the information together then misinformation will thrive.