For those cheering on the death of Gaddafi, are you also cheering on downfall of Libya?

Considering Gaddafi was attacked for some type of humanitarian reason, will Libya benefit from this recent regime change?

If the war is anything like the Iraq war it will be costly, over 1.2 trillion dollars

source: costofwar.com...

According to mainstream news, the Libyan war has already cost 900 million dollars, and that was in August of 2011

www.washingtonpost.com...

What this means is the already expanding deficit and debt of the United States is going to increase, and for what? So a dictator Americans have never seen before will be replaced by the government that tolerated him for 40 years? And will most likely replace with another dictator? Is that beneficial to Americans for this to happen? Is it beneficial to Libya? No, it is not, there is no reason why any of this money needs to be spent to take out a foreign dictator no matter how evil he is, nor should it be done just for regime change and to give the U.S. access to Libyan's resources.

According to studies, Libya has over 29 billion barrels of oil, and its economy depends mostly on its oil and natural gas reserves. What a coincidence!


dev.prenhall.com...

So while it's understandable to hate Gaddafi because he may have mistreated protesters (like protesters in New York) but it's not justified to invade a country just because people protest. In the same way Libya should not be able to invade America because people in New York protest and the cops use brutality against them.

And will the Libyans benefit from this? Not if this war turns out to be anything like Iraq, which of course was started on the exact same premises, to remove a dictator, and the country's oil reserves would "pay for the war" according to Bush, although what he really meant was the oil would pay salaries to the military industrial complex.

If Libya turns out to be anything like Iraq, we can expect similar problems as what occurred in Iraq, namely

-The justifications to go to war turned out to be false. This was the case with Sadam's weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and it looks the same way with Libya's Gaddafi bombing protesters with airstrikes, of which Russian intelligence has said this was not true according to satellite imagery as well as NATO's inability to find mass casualties they themselves did not cause, or casualties the al qaeda freedom fighters/terrorist rebels did not cause that they financed. Obama also did not have congressional approval for the war and it has continued passed any type of immediate action, nor did Libya pose any threat to the United States.

-In the build up to the Iraq war, the intelligence was faulty despite Cheney and Bush pushing reports that would later be found out to be false. In a similar way Obama is pushing that the Libyan war is a peaceful humanitarian mission and a "kinetic military action" to avoid the legality of calling it a war.

-The reconstruction of Iraq has been costly and detrimental to the society. The citizens of these war ravaged countries find that while living under a dictator, there are at least basic necessities like running water and electricity. Not that that justifies the actions of a dictator, but a dictator at least must keep up basic necessities otherwise his population will riot. But with no head or government, and lawlessness caused by massive looting, war, and invading forces, the societies are left to fend for themselves. With rebels associated with al qaeda now leading the government in Libya is this anything but a sign of anarchy and chaos?

-Democracy is often used to justify wars, like in Iraq, but democracy is replaced with dictatorship often quickly, or the democratically elected leader will be opposed by the United States. This is why there are constant regime changes because the CIA and U.S. find it increasingly difficult to control things with a truly democratic leader. It is often easier to have government leaders that can be bribed like the case of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

www.globalissues.org...

And let's not forget the carnage that has already occurred in Libya by NATO.

News reports of 354 civilians killed in a NATO airstrike in Libya in September of 2011.

www.haaretz.com...

The horrible irony of this is the U.S. invaded Libya because Gaddafi was ordering airstrikes on his civilians. This is morally repugnant, but there is no evidence of this crime. And yet, there are many mainstream news reports of NATO airstrikes killing civilians, so any type of justification to go to war over an airstrike has become hypocritical and contradictory.

NPR Libya Airstrikes may have killed civilians
www.npr.org...

CBS NATO airstrike kills 9 civilians
www.cbsnews.com...


New York Times Civilians killed in Airstrike by NATO
www.nytimes.com...

Times Online NATO airstrike kills civilians
www.reuters.com...

Fox News Airstrike kills 14 Afghan civilians
www.foxnews.com...

So if you are going to cheer on the death of one dictator, you might as well openly cheer on the arrival of a new dictator. At least that way you will be honest with yourself and others, because otherwise you are decrying one form of evil and replacing it with another. Is there any justification that an organization like NATO that kills so many civilians has the justification to invade a nation because their leader may or may not have used airstrikes of their own? And since the U.S. is also involved in this, being professionals at killing civilians in Afghanistan and Pakistan, there's no other conclusion except to admit that the US, UK, France, and the "civilized" Western nations are the ones causing the destruction throughout the world, not the "muslims" which is just a racist justification for war and looting.

Seeing as though it was put forward that they should perhaps repay the US for their help. I forget who said it but I heard it on a MSM News radio. And further that they now have an international bank and oil company....and the fact the the GMR was almost completely destroyed....

I think for the time being Libya is going to be MUCH worse off than they were before.

Found it....it was Bachman's idea.......I remember choking when she said it.

thinkprogress.org...

Like Iraq, they are going to pay for it with oil.

It's not going to cost America a dime.

reply to post by Vardoger


the west has a very short memory if they think they have a tame country that they can exploit now .
don't forget that it did not help them when they helped in over throwing the governments of iran and iraq .
gaddafi's down fall was due to the fact that he wanted to unite the african counties and ditch the us dollar .
time will tell .

They killed
The George Washington Of Africa
He wanted the
United States of Africa

With this reasoning George Washington should of been assassinated.
Just Goggle
George Washington Indian Killer
Mass graves of dead native American Indians
are all over this country.

This was a good thing for the Libyan people given that it gives them at least a fighting chance to start anew without torture prisons and a dictatorship.

Having said that, this wasn't a humanitarian mission for the US...they wanted access to oil, and of course politicians wanted to make sure their corporate donors (Lockhead Martin, etc.) are happy. How else can they be a well paid sock puppet?



It's another example of corporations infiltrating the US government to increase profits. Wall Street, the defence industry...doesn't really matter. The fact is, the government isn't working for the people anymore...

Good Job. I hope Iran's leaders are paying attention so they know their future.

Libya as a nation wil go on. Wether the fractionalized tribal factions will get their act together enough to form a co-hesive government, is up for grabs, but I hope they do.

Originally posted by jondave
Good Job. I hope Iran's leaders are paying attention so they know their future.

Iran isn't my friend.

And neither are the Islamists removing all governments, including democratic ones, in Africa.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
This was a good thing for the Libyan people given that it gives them at least a fighting chance to start anew without torture prisons and a dictatorship.

Seven years after the U.S.-led invasion, Iraqis are taking to the streets to demand basic services they have not received, despite many promises and the expenditure of billions of dollars by the U.S. and Iraqi governments.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Iraq is still without water and power and basic services, so you can live on in your hope that they will have a fighting chance but it's not because a dictator has been removed, they will need that "fighting chance" now more than ever because their real problems will start as their society collapses. You just assume that things will be good because a supposed "dictator" was removed and you don't care at all about how this really affects societies. The evidence is right there in our faces. Will Libya be any different than Iraq? I think not.

Originally posted by jondave
Good Job. I hope Iran's leaders are paying attention so they know their future.

At the very least you can provide two lines of text as is recommended by ATS rules. Furthermore, you can for your own reputation provide a little more background and detail to your ideas, a link or video might help, something more than your G.I. Joe one line military victory celebration.

I am not cheering wonder if they will drop the body in the mediterranean or something that can't and will never be able to be verified manufactured wars manufactured deaths we have a manufactured potus.

Lot of blood on that Nobel Peace Prize Winners hands.

Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by jondave
Good Job. I hope Iran's leaders are paying attention so they know their future.

Iran isn't my friend.

And neither are the Islamists removing all governments, including democratic ones, in Africa.

Iran is very much paying attention. Iran has quickly come out and declared the Saudi murder plot to be a massive fabrication, and yet you assume that Iran has not been briefed yet regarding the latest news in Libya? I think you are wrong. And last time I checked, the only group removing "all" governments, if such a thing is even possible, is not the Islamists but the U.S. and the military industrial complex.

They aren't mutually exclusive.

Iran isn't your friend.

Islamists take over in the Horn of Africa isn't a good thing either.

Think bigger.

Originally posted by Gmoneycricket
They killed
The George Washington Of Africa
He wanted the
United States of Africa

With this reasoning George Washington should of been assassinated.
Just Goggle
George Washington Indian Killer
Mass graves of dead native American Indians
are all over this country.

Education failure.
Comparing a homicidal dictator to George Washington and throwing in some dead Indians as a strawman that were dieing way before his time and long after.
Yeah google will educate you, prop up your misguided perceptions and teach you all you ever need. There is nothing wrong with google, the problem is between the keyboard and the chair.

As a clue, look up on google who was the first President to step down and not run for another term. Dictators tend to die in office for a reason, they never give up power.

reply to post by filosophia


Don't you also mean... cheering on the The Downfall of the human race.... For us To be cheering on someones death??
Whether a Evil and Heartless person or not...does that justify this level of Barbarianism??

Originally posted by TinfoilTP

Originally posted by Gmoneycricket
They killed
The George Washington Of Africa
He wanted the
United States of Africa

With this reasoning George Washington should of been assassinated.
Just Goggle
George Washington Indian Killer
Mass graves of dead native American Indians
are all over this country.

Education failure.
Comparing a homicidal dictator to George Washington and throwing in some dead Indians as a strawman that were dieing way before his time and long after.
Yeah google will educate you, prop up your misguided perceptions and teach you all you ever need. There is nothing wrong with google, the problem is between the keyboard and the chair.

As a clue, look up on google who was the first President to step down and not run for another term. Dictators tend to die in office for a reason, they never give up power.

What parts wrong?
You admit to backing murder?
Gaddafi is innocent he was never given a trial and found guilty.

Originally posted by wutz4tom
reply to post by filosophia

 

Don't you also mean... cheering on the The Downfall of the human race.... For us To be cheering on someones death??
Whether a Evil and Heartless person or not...does that justify this level of Barbarianism??

This is hypocritical of the hate US crowd. If the marxist enemy of the moment were strung up in front of them, be it some politician or banker or rich person, they would be cheering, no doubt about it.

Do you see it here too?

You either support Moammar and socialism, or you support Islamist take over in Africa. If you dislike those, then you must hate your country.

None of these are the only options.

Again, do not let the progandists dictate the terms of engagement.

You can want to protect your country, and not like Moammar's dictatorship AND be critical of giving the Horn of Africa to Islamists.

Don't let them tell you what you are.

Originally posted by Aeons
Do you see it here too?

You either support Moammar and socialism, or you support Islamist take over in Africa. If you dislike those, then you must hate your country.

None of these are the only options.

Again, do not let the progandists dictate the terms of engagement.

You can want to protect your country, and not like Moammar's dictatorship AND be critical of giving the Horn of Africa to Islamists.

Don't let them tell you what you are.

What tune are you continually drumming here?
From what I get, you dont like Ghadaffi but accepted him as a roadblock to Islamists gaining influence in the region?
In other words you wanted to go back to the status quo of the past 42 years.
Maybe it's better for the Islamists to have a seat somewhere, that way you can put a bullseye on them if they are your enemy and choose to do battle.