Why I think increased taxes on the rich won't work.

First off, please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying there aren't any tax loop holes that need to be fixed. I think most people can agree on that. What I am saying is that increasing the tax rate on the wealthy will not solve our nation's problems. Here's my reasoning:

The total worth of all billionaires in America is $1.3trillion. Source
There are 3.5 million US households that are millionaire households. 90% of those are worth between $1 and $10 million. Source
Most of those households are closer to the $1.5million mark. But let's use $3.5million for this exercise.

3.5million households at $3.5million each equals $12.25trillion. Add to that the $1.3trillion from billionaires, we get $13.55trillion.

The US Debt at the end of Fiscal Year 2010 was $13.56trillion Source
The current debt is $14.9trillion Source

That means if we rounded up all the millionaires and billionaires in the US, took all their money and sold off every last thing they own, we would still owe $1.4trillion. And at the rate we're going, we'd be back up to $14trillion in less than a decade.

My point is that it's not a problem of money coming in, it's a problem of money going out.

The Democrats aren't repsonsible. The Republicans aren't responsible. The fault is with the out of control federal government. It seems like every issue in the news makes you choose to fight on the red side or the blue side, but that's just to keep us distracted.

Sometimes I just want to scream to the citizens and the government "THE SHIP IS SINKING! We're too busy arguing over whether or not the wealthy should have to pay more for their tickets. Meanwhile, THE SHIP IS STILL SINKING! But we're too busy arguing if we should convert the gasoline engines to electric engines. Or if we should allow anyone who wants to, to come on board. If we don't fix the hole soon, none of it will matter."

Very well said. The problem is the people at OWS don't want the rich taxed more to pay off the national debt; they want the rich taxed more because the rich are wealthier than them and it isn't fair. I want more me me me.

Its mostly true The prop is we don't tax large corporations, we import almost everything so are money never stays in the country and we allow banks and corporations to make there own rules and if there is a rule they don't like the buy more congressmen. I would say grab a life jacket there next step is to try and bail some water but its to late they should of started 3-4 years ago when the first deck of the ship flooded. I would say stock up on bullets and fuel now its going to be a rough ride and the water is cold

Of course it won't work because the govt will just spend the money generated. Not even enough to make a dent in our debt either. Just another revenue stream to spend on Nation Building, foreign aid and more hand outs.

I still think a flat tax is the ONLY thing that will fix our nation.

THE WHOLE POINT of flat tax is to get rid of all the loopholes and writeoffs. No more standard deduction, no more earned income credit, no more fancy write-offs and loopholes for the rich...

A person would have ONLY 12% of his income withheld...period...and that means more spendable money in the pockets of the minimum wage guy, whether he is married or not. Flat tax means most of the political crookedness in this country gets wiped out and TRUE government transparency happens AND the PEOPLE control the government spending at the polls!

And the government would be WAY AHEAD because of reduced government spending STARTING with the disolution of the IRS!

Show me ONE minimum wage earner who wouldn't like to be taking home $6.60/hr out of the $7.50/hr that he earns INSTEAD of the measly $4.87/hr he takes home now! A person needs money in his pocket to live. A low wage earner that gets into debt trouble often NEVER SEES his tax return because A) he has to cheat to survive and thus never files or B) some big business lender swoops in through the courts to take the tax return to cover debt and a bunch of ridiculous fees they assessed.

I hope this helps a few of you to understand the TRUTH about flat tax. So many people say the rich don't pay ANY taxes. Well, if that's the case, then a flat tax would nail their butts to the wall!

Flat tax gives the power BACK to the people!

how about this then these people are so smart right? after all they must be to have found a way to make so much money righT? ok so tell me if the goverment took evry thing except 200k payed off the depth (which you say is almost enough to do it .How long do you think it would take these geniuses to remake there 100 million dollor life styles?
You do know donald trump was bankrupth at one point right? a year later he was right bake in the multi million club . Why are you so worryed about ther iches money ? they ovesly are smart enough to make more

reply to post by canselmi


It would bring some degree of fairness to the system....even though taxes never were intended to pay down the debt.

They were only intended to pay down the interest..to the debt holders.

The OWS isn't so much about the Wealthy being wealthier than the 99% but the inequalities inherant to the system that allow them to.pay a disproportionate amount in taxes relative to their income.

AND that the system actually allows them to get away with it.

The 1% don't pay as much in taxes because they can pay professionals to advise them in how to get around them....

If you or I stop paying our taxes...we are considered criminals and will go to prison.

reply to post by xxcalbier


You're just proving my point. The private citizens will find a way to make a profit and be back on their feet in a few years. Yet in that same time, the goverment will be back to owing trillions of dollars yet again.

Originally posted by jjkenobi
Very well said. The problem is the people at OWS don't want the rich taxed more to pay off the national debt; they want the rich taxed more because the rich are wealthier than them and it isn't fair. I want more me me me.

actually, it's more so they're super rich, while some people are soooo poor that they're dying of hunger, and living in the worst possible places. have you never witnessed a single mother raising 3 kids in a 1 bedroom apartment thats so unsafe that she has to board her doors and windows and attempt to battle the mold in her walls? come onn

Originally posted by nh_ee
reply to post by canselmi

 

AND that the system actually allows them to get away with it.

And here is the problem in a nutshell, in my opinion.
Instead of OWS, it should be Occupy Capital Hill

Some very good points made I agree to a certain extent, however to put it in simple terms if you and I are paying lets say 10cents on the dollar in tax the rich should pay the same exact proportion so it is fair. It will not fix the problem but it WILL help. When middle class people spend money the economy turns. The economy is a direct result of middle class spending (or lack of).

reply to post by canselmi


Ahhhhhhh BUT that would be against the "silent" organizers agenda. See the poll that said 48% of the OWS protestors would re-elect Obama ? That just tells you they will be no where near Washington because everything is fine there. Obama has said recently that his administration has made all the right choices - this must include all his Campaign lies.

Flat tax or FAIR Tax is the only answer. The FAIR Tax eliminates the IRS and all of its attached red tape and bureaucracy.

K.I.S.S. says the people to its government. The tax code as gotten to complicated to survive under its own weight. Time to simplify and streamline.

Whatever rate you tax income at won't matter. The money that is made is not made through wages. It is made through investment gains and dividends, which is taxed much differently(15%).

What we need to do is strart taxing wealth instead of income. If you spend all you make you pay no federal income taxes. if you have billions in the bank you pay 10% a year of that amount. As your wealth declines so does the tax rate.

There is X number of money in existence. The only way new money can be made is by offsetting it with debt. Thus no new money is ever created under our monetary system. As the top .1% accumualte more and more wealth there is less left for everyone else. Add interest into the factor and we have anotherl hit in the amount of money available to held by the non-elite. Thus the pie for everyone keeps getting smaller and smaller and smaller. As a result there is no way the lower classes can do anything but get worse off, unless the elite shed some of their money. They aren't going to give it to us, so we have to obtain that through taxes.

It is really that simple. Raise more tax from the rich or watch the majority of the 99% increase their suffering. Mathematically it can't be any other way.

IMO it needs a 2 part fix. Maybe 3. Washington need to cut spending across the board, they also need to implement a flat tax, and get rid of usless departments. The problem with this is states take taxes too. The state should be taking care of the local stuff, welfare, health care (what they can), things for the people. The federal government has no purpose in the lives of the people. They are not close enough to understand that what is good for east coast is not good for middle America.

The second (or third) part is we the people need to learn to boycott To big to fail corporations. Do business with local shops ar small businesses over the internet. That is the only way to control big corporations. If we continue to buy their stuff they will continue to do what they are doing. When they realize people aren't going to do it anymore, they will change there ways. The small business can't compete because of government regulations. Small business is why we were strong in the past, and is the only way we will be strong in the future.

I think they need to remake the economic system all together its broken and getting worse. There should be a flat income tax to all. They also need to make reforms on the made in America sticker the simple assembly shouldn't cut it. There needs to be a tax on imported goods just so American company's have a 15-20% advantage over foreign goods. The tariff should only be used on infa-structure projects from new roads, bridges, renewable energy, and so many other things that should of been built over the years. The only people who would hate this would be the one's who out-sourced American jobs or the so many companies who have been playing the system for years.
I would be a little nervous about the path we are rolling down the government is claiming its 10% unemployment but anyone who runs out of benifits isn't counted and the one's that can't receive benifits. I would say the real unemployment rate is around 20-25% The current practice is unemployed need not apply so it will get worse. Once a large percentage of the people lose hope in there future and falls into the grip of the depression that I'm sure millions are feeling it won't take much for them to hit the breaking point. I think we can see the breaking point on the horizon and its coming fast.

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by jjkenobi
Very well said. The problem is the people at OWS don't want the rich taxed more to pay off the national debt; they want the rich taxed more because the rich are wealthier than them and it isn't fair. I want more me me me.

actually, it's more so they're super rich, while some people are soooo poor that they're dying of hunger, and living in the worst possible places. have you never witnessed a single mother raising 3 kids in a 1 bedroom apartment thats so unsafe that she has to board her doors and windows and attempt to battle the mold in her walls? come onn

edit on 20-10-2011 by My.mind.is.mine because: (no reason given)

No, but I have heard the worlds smallest violin, playing the worlds saddest song. Does that count?

Why have three kids if you can't afford them? Better yet, why do I have to support the trollop via the government's taxes on my wages?

Yes, corporations and super rich criminals need to be put in line. But that doesn't mean its handout day across America because of bad decisions made by others who are clearly irresponsible.