The Madness that is: Ron Paul's Candidacy!, page 1

It will come as no surprise to anyone that I don't like Ron Paul. It will come as even less of a surprise to anyone that I especially don't like Ron Paul supporters. To that end, this thread will be biased. But I will devote the main focus of my angst towards the candidate.

Now, it's not a personal dislike I have for the man, after all, I don't really know him, I just know him from what he says on TV and what gets reported on the internet. And so, in an attempt to keep this strictly against the man's campaign platform and not the man himself, I will be taking all my points directly from his campaign website.

www.ronpaul2012.com...

Abortion:

* Immediately saving lives by effectively repealing Roe v. Wade and preventing activist judges from interfering with state decisions on life by removing abortion from federal court jurisdiction through legislation modeled after his “We the People Act.”
* Defining life as beginning at conception by passing a “Sanctity of Life Act.”

Now, abortion is a terrible thing, I personally am pro choice, but that doesn't mean I want to force every woman to get an abortion. And yes, there are many alternatives to abortion out there, adoption for instance. But, abortion, I believe should always be an option. However, Ron Paul doesn't want that option for anyone. In fact, Ron Paul wants to usurp the Supreme Court's Constitutional roll and as president take that power away from them and make all abortions illegal by making it a federal crime to get an abortion.

This the insidiousness that is his “Sanctity of Life Act” This will make it so it's considered a person's life begins at conception. Thereby making all abortions preformed in the United States a federal murder charge.

Doesn't sound like liberty to me. Sounds to me like government intervention in a person's private life.

Don't get me wrong. Abortion is not something that can be taken lightly, I believe it's a personal choice to terminate a pregnancy. I just don't think that the government is the right people to make that choice for you.

Homeschooling:

*  Help parents better educate their children by providing parents with a $5,000 per child tax credit for tutors, books, computers, and other K-12 related educational needs.
*  Ensure that the federal government treats high school diplomas earned through homeschooling the same as other high school diplomas.

It's not hard to see that there is a problem with the education system in this country. But Ron Paul's solution to this problem simply won't work.

1st, for some reason Ron Paul thinks that the second wage earner in a family today only makes $5000.00, which is preposterous. How is it better for one parent in a two income household to have to give up their job in order to teach their children at home instead of working that second job and make sure that the family is stable?

2nd, How does Ron Paul think that many parents actually are capable of teaching their children and preparing them for the global economic environment we live in today?

Have you met some parents today?



Ok, that's just one of millions of examples. Do you seriously think these people are in any way capable of homeschooling their children?

This of course is the age old technique to dumb down the population in order to more easily control it. If you control the education system, (i.e. Make it so that only the wealthy can properly educate their offspring, then you will ensure long family lines of success. While the peasantry are regulated to abstract and continued failure, with limited opportunities, and near zero hope of ever bettering themselves.

Immigration:

* End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.

Now this is something that a lot of Conservatives are for. They want to get rid of those “damn dirty Mexicans”. While conservatives don't really care what country south of the border they come from, or whether they are actually here legally or not, they just want all those Latinos out of the country.



Ron Paul's idea of ridding this country of all Latinos is the removal of the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. Which gives every American their citizenship from birth. The problem with this is that Ron Paul doesn't explain exactly how or who would be worthy of American citizenship once his draconian paradise is enabled.

Perhaps parents will have to pay a hefty fee in order to bless their children with citizenship to our great land. Perhaps your family will have to be economically viable in order to be worthy of citizenship, perhaps your family will have to be registered Republicans in order for your children to gain citizenship.

But, what is more likely, in Ron Paul's world, you will have to be white enough to be considered American at birth. (This is of course to appease his White Supremacist supporters) But it has implications across the board, along with his homeschooling plan to dumb down our future generations and his ban on abortions, a Ron Paul president will ensure that this country will have enough dumb slaves to work for less than minimum wage or be deported out of the country of their birth. Why have Latinos do the work that can be done by the underprivileged, undereducated, and citizenship-less population?

Statement of Faith:

“I have accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, and I endeavor every day to follow Him in all I do and in every position I advocate.”

Religious zealotry at it's finest, right at the top of his tab proudly proclaiming that he wants to move this country into a theocracy and thus destroy our Republic.

Ron Paul wants Cannon Law to rule in America. For those of you who aren't familiar with Cannon Law, it's the Christian version of Sharia Law, you know, that idea that people are so afraid Muslims will take over America with? Well, you won't have to worry about that with Ron Paul as “Pastor in Chief” instead you will have to worry about beheadings for being a Heretic instead of being an Infidel.



Don't get me wrong, I am all for freedom of religion in this country, the problem I have is when those religions worm their way into our politicians. We have separation of church and state so that we don't have church dogma legislating our lives through law. If your a Christian, and you hold those values, good for you, keep them, also, keep them to yourself and don't force your code of conduct and your values into my life. Some might consider that a libertarian viewpoint. You know, not having government interfering into your life?

But not Ron Paul, he's all for letting GOD dictate to the American people what they can and cannot do.

reply to post by HauntWok

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what a load of cherry picked,twisted BS !!!!!

If you had any REAL issues to discuss I'd listen to you but this is just the usual RP twisted rant..

I don't see many flags or stars in your future.

reply to post by backinblack

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I didn't create this thread for stars and flags, I created it to express my view on Ron Paul's candidacy and how I am against it.

You may find it cherry picking, but I think that those are some serious issues that I don't agree with the man on. And I can't advocate for a candidate that wants the United States to be the way he does.

reply to post by HauntWok

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The only thing the right wing trolls here on ATS hate more than President Obama, is a thread pointing out the truth about Saint Ron Paul (they'll call it "attacking", or even "slander" or "libel" despite the facts).

Be ready for many private messages and lots of teeth gnashing here.

S&F for you from me however

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by HauntWok
reply to post by backinblack

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I didn't create this thread for stars and flags, I created it to express my view on Ron Paul's candidacy and how I am against it.

You may find it cherry picking, but I think that those are some serious issues that I don't agree with the man on. And I can't advocate for a candidate that wants the United States to be the way he does.

Your view is shared with many complete idiots. NOTHING you said is true. EVERYTHING you said is propaganda, and a streach beyond imagination. Your post reeks of some sort of mental issue rising from the willful ignorance displayed throughout every single sentence.

Some of the statements within your post are so WRONG, and baseless...I feel this has got to be a sarcastic post. To be in denial of the truth so much has got to be intentional. I will not argue or debate you because i believe you to be someone who gets off on your insanity, and will troll til the bitter end with no rational thought whatsoever, so good luck with your thread.

I am sure you will get with the program and support Ron Paul before it is over....just as soon as someone on TV tells you to.....

Click here for more information.

reply to post by MentalGiant

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Propaganda? You would be right it is the very same propaganda Mr. Paul uses on his own website to describe himself. So if it is what he says about himself and it is untrue would that not in fact make him a liar? This man is no champion. This is a man whose vision of the future of this country is to take it back to 1900. This is a man who is in favor of term limits yet somehow saw fit to serve 30 years, if that is your idea of a term limit, you may as well not bother with them at all. But either way it shows a deep flaw in his character. And instead of doing his job has missed 30 votes this month alone in his quest to be President. Mind you I don't disagree with everything he says or thinks, but do not feel he would be even mediocre as President but I would want him as an adviser where someone like him belongs.

Originally posted by KeliOnyx
reply to post by MentalGiant

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Propaganda? You would be right it is the very same propaganda Mr. Paul uses on his own website to describe himself. So if it is what he says about himself and it is untrue would that not in fact make him a liar? This man is no champion. This is a man whose vision of the future of this country is to take it back to 1900. This is a man who is in favor of term limits yet somehow saw fit to serve 30 years, if that is your idea of a term limit, you may as well not bother with them at all. But either way it shows a deep flaw in his character. And instead of doing his job has missed 30 votes this month alone in his quest to be President. Mind you I don't disagree with everything he says or thinks, but do not feel he would be even mediocre as President but I would want him as an adviser where someone like him belongs.

I would feel sorry for you if I felt it were worth the effort...There is nothing anyone can do for you regarding your off the rocker opinion of Dr. Paul. You will come around when someone on TV tells you too....until then, you will just continue to walk around saying silly things that are not based on Reality.

Originally posted by KeliOnyx
reply to post by MentalGiant

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Propaganda? You would be right it is the very same propaganda Mr. Paul uses on his own website to describe himself. So if it is what he says about himself and it is untrue would that not in fact make him a liar? This man is no champion. This is a man whose vision of the future of this country is to take it back to 1900. This is a man who is in favor of term limits yet somehow saw fit to serve 30 years, if that is your idea of a term limit, you may as well not bother with them at all. But either way it shows a deep flaw in his character. And instead of doing his job has missed 30 votes this month alone in his quest to be President. Mind you I don't disagree with everything he says or thinks, but do not feel he would be even mediocre as President but I would want him as an adviser where someone like him belongs.

Here is a quick snap shot of REALITY for you...

Rep. Michele Bachmann did not cast any votes in September and has missed all five votes in October, a byproduct of her bid for the GOP presidential nomination. Since announcing her campaign on June 13, Bachmann has voted 54 percent of the time.

Comparably, since announcing his candidacy on May 13, Texas Rep. Ron Paul has voted 84 percent of the time, according to numbers compiled by Congressional Quarterly.politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...

I am finished here. case closed. You are misrepresenting the truth, and spreading lies to suit your willful ignorance. i wold not want you on any cabinet, if you cant even research the truth. This took me 3 minutes, and I just scratched the surface of your misrepresentations....

reply to post by Darkblade71

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The whole cannon law thing tells me that the OP is totally off their rocker.

Why?

Ron Paul has never said ,anywhere that I have read, that he wants cannon law,
these are words of the OP and false.

This simply comes from the Glenn Beck school of thought, that if you subscribe to an idea, you also subscribe to that idea's ideology, and to every possible negative consequence that ideology remotely implies, when you carry it to absurd extremes. For instance Obama endorsing some socialist measures means that he's a Communist/Muslim/Anti-Christ/Kenyan.

So, therefore, using the same logic the TEA Party enjoyed over the last two years. We can safely assume that because Ron Paul believes in Christianity, he therefore wants to rule this country like a pope from the white house and create a fascist theocracy enslaving Americans to a life of serfdom.

he dares to speak the truth.
And THAT is something you do not see in politics very often.

No, you don't see that in politics very often, and you don't see the truth when Ron Paul speaks either. He's a 30+ year career politician, which means that he, guess what? Lies!

You are right, I don't like Ron Paul, I don't like the direction he wants to take this country. I don't think that parents should have to home school their children giving up one income. (he doesn't even suggest what a single parent household would do)

I don't like the idea of abortions being outlawed in this country and abortion doctors and patients potentially being prosecuted federally for murder because of this man's personal viewpoints on the subject.

I don't like the idea that our jus soli citizenship will be taken away by this man just because he wants to get rid of some brown people.

Overall I don't like his platform, I don't think that it's good for this country, and I don't think that this man has any love for freedom.

reply to post by HauntWok

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We'll do this point-by-point:

Abortion:

This the insidiousness that is his “Sanctity of Life Act” This will make it so it's considered a person's life begins at conception. Thereby making all abortions preformed in the United States a federal murder charge.

Not exactly. If you read the bill, you see that - yes, it contains a definition of life, but this is for clarity of the intent and scope of the bill, and does not affect the ACTION of the legislation. All the bill does is remove federal jurisdiction to decide on this matter one way or the other. No one debates that convicts being executed, criminals killed while committing a crime, or innocent adults killed accidentally are alive, but the states have various classifications for these terminations of life (death penalty, negligent homicide, manslaughter, justifiable homicide, 1st degree, 2nd degree, and so forth).

Acknolwedging life does nothing to affect the states' ability to make their own determinations and exclusions/justifications. This claim is uninformed scaremongering (no offense intended, but it simply is such).

Homeschooling:

1st, for some reason Ron Paul thinks that the second wage earner in a family today only makes $5000.00, which is preposterous. How is it better for one parent in a two income household to have to give up their job in order to teach their children at home instead of working that second job and make sure that the family is stable?

2nd, How does Ron Paul think that many parents actually are capable of teaching their children and preparing them for the global economic environment we live in today?

First off, Paul does not advocate ONLY homeschooling, as his tax credit proposal also applies to public or private schooling. Regardless, it's not intended to offset the full income of one parent, it's to offset education-related expenses in general. Paul has, and those researching his issues should have, enough common sense to realize that homeschooling is not a viable option for everyone, but this is a very helpful proposal not currently in place for those who want to consider it and for whom it MAY be a viable option.

And yes, *some* parents are qualified and able to homeschool, and do an excellent job at it. I'd urge you to look into test score comparisons and research this issue a little futher. One-size-fits-all does not work for everyone, and public education is failing more and more often. Parents should have the option to provide better for their children if they're willing and able, and if they can pass the needed tests/certifications/what-have-you, then by all means their diplomas should carry every bit as much weight.

Immigration:

Ron Paul's idea of ridding this country of all Latinos is the removal of the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. Which gives every American their citizenship from birth. The problem with this is that Ron Paul doesn't explain exactly how or who would be worthy of American citizenship once his draconian paradise is enabled.

First off, generalizations are most distasteful and rarely accurate. What you claim most conservatives want or think has no bearing on Paul or his policies unless you can establish facts.

That being said, your understanding of the 14th amendment and US citizenship is somewhat lacking. Prior to the 14th amendment changing things, there had already been laws on the books by congress determining US citizenship (going back to the 1790s), so you don't have to worry about any uncertainty about who would be an american citizen - the desire to repeal the 14th amendment merely means non-US citizens can't sneak into the country and magically birth a US citizen.

More uninformed scaremongering, sorry.

Statement of faith/canon law:

Religious zealotry at it's finest, right at the top of his tab proudly proclaiming that he wants to move this country into a theocracy and thus destroy our Republic.

This is simply the silliest bit you included. Aside from picking at Paul's faith (do you have any idea how many of our presidents have been christian? I'm assuming ALL of them), I'd like you to provide one example of Paul's supposed desire to impliment anything resembling canon law in the least.

Getting the government back to its very limited defined roles and out of interfering with everyone's life has effectively zero to do with any sort of theocracy. This was, frankly, a stupid claim.

Be well.

Originally posted by HauntWok
reply to post by Darkblade71

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This simply comes from the Glenn Beck school of thought,

Well, there's the problem.

reply to post by Praetorius

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Acknolwedging life does nothing to affect the states' ability to make their own determinations and exclusions/justifications. This claim is uninformed scaremongering (no offense intended, but it simply is such).

This is the exact reason he wants to make abortion illegal. The states wouldn't be able to make abortion legal or not because it would be against federal law. It would criminalize doctors and patients who end an unwanted pregnancy by making every fetus a human being thus terminating it would hold the exact same penalty as murder.

First off, Paul does not advocate ONLY homeschooling, as his tax credit proposal also applies to public or private schooling. Regardless, it's not intended to offset the full income of one parent, it's to offset education-related expenses in general. Paul has, and those researching his issues should have, enough common sense to realize that homeschooling is not a viable option for everyone, but this is a very helpful proposal not currently in place for those who want to consider it and for whom it MAY be a viable option.

Actually Ron Paul wants two things, either private education, or homeschooling. He wants to completely end the public school system thereby forcing parents to either spend more on private education or give up an income completely and home school their children.

You are right, there are parents out there that are well qualified to home school their children. I'm not completely against home schooling, I am against stupid people home schooling their children and thereby creating a serf class of people as Ron Paul envisions.

That being said, your understanding of the 14th amendment and US citizenship is somewhat lacking. Prior to the 14th amendment changing things, there had already been laws on the books by congress determining US citizenship (going back to the 1790s), so you don't have to worry about any uncertainty about who would be an american citizen - the desire to repeal the 14th amendment merely means non-US citizens can't sneak into the country and magically birth a US citizen.

It's not scaremongering when the candidate doesn't express how someone will get their citizenship when they are born in this country. Are we to assume that they will get citizenship through a fee of some sort? Thereby creating more people who even though were born in this country aren't actually citizens of this country? Perhaps they will have to pass some sort of Conservative litmus test (because we all know that conservatives love to make sure that people are "conservative" enough through tests) Or maybe the only people in Ron Paul's world that are deserving of citizenship are people that have northern European ancestry. He doesn't explain, so therefore all we can do is speculate.

This is simply the silliest bit you included. Aside from picking at Paul's faith (do you have any idea how many of our presidents have been christian? I'm assuming ALL of them), I'd like you to provide one example of Paul's supposed desire to impliment anything resembling canon law in the least.

Why is it silly? People assumed that Obama was a Muslim and wanted to bring over Sharia Law based only on a photograph. Ron Paul explicitly states on his campaign website that GOD dictates to him what to do and how to legislate. (not the people, but GOD) So, it's only fair to assume that he wants to turn the US into a theocracy and instill Cannon Law.

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