Is The US Declaration of Independence Illegal? - UK (Law) Thinks So..., page 1

This might get a debate going, a healthy one mind you. I'm not sure where i stand on this argument, so a bit of American input would be good.

The article linked below indicates that UK researchers have found that the Declaration of Independence is indeed illegal. Whether that is true or not is open to debate.

Is It or Isn't It Illegal?

On Tuesday night, while Republican candidates in Nevada were debating such American issues as nuclear waste disposal and the immigration status of Mitt Romney's gardener, American and British lawyers in Philadelphia were taking on a far more fundamental topic.

Namely, just what did Thomas Jefferson think he was doing?

The American Case:

The Declaration is unquestionably "legal". Under basic principles of "Natural Law", government can only be by the consent of the people and there comes a point when allegiance is no longer required in face of tyranny. The legality of the Declaration and its validity is proven by subsequent independence movements which have been enforced by world opinion as right and just, based on the fundamental principles of equality and self-determination now reflected in the UN Charter

The British Case:

The Declaration of Independence was not only illegal, but actually treasonable. There is no legal principle then or now to allow a group of citizens to establish their own laws because they want to. What if Texas decided today it wanted to secede from the Union? Lincoln made the case against secession and he was right. The Declaration of Independence itself, in the absence of any recognised legal basis, had to appeal to "natural law", an undefined concept, and to "self-evident truths", that is to say truths for which no evidence could be provided. The grievances listed in the Declaration were too trivial to justify secession. The main one - no taxation without representation - was no more than a wish on the part of the colonists, to avoid paying for the expense of protecting them against the French during seven years of arduous war and conflict

The American Experiment:

The event, presented by the Temple American Inn of Court in conjunction with Gray's Inn, London, pitted British barristers against American lawyers to determine whether or not the American colonists had legal grounds to declare secession. For American lawyers, the answer is simple: "The English had used their own Declaration of Rights to depose James II and these acts were deemed completely lawful and justified," they say in their summary. To the British, however, secession isn't the legal or proper tool by which to settle internal disputes. "What if Texas decided today it wanted to secede from the Union? Lincoln made the case against secession and he was right," they argue in their brief. A vote at the end of the debate reaffirmed the legality of Jefferson and company's insurrection, and the American experiment survived to see another day. It was an unsurprising result, considering the venue - just a few blocks away from where the Declaration was drafted. But did they get it right? Below are some more of the arguments from both sides.

IMO i think it is perfectly legal, however, i can see the case for it not being legal. I'm on the fence!

reply to post by jrmcleod

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Do you really think America cares what The Uk may think of our Constitution? Learn to loose!!

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by jrmcleod

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Do you really think America cares what The UK may think of our Constitution?

This isn't really a case of does America care what the UK thinks...

Its a case of (and only a question with no opinion from me) "Was the US Built On A Lie?"

The American peoples opinion of the UK's opinion is kinda irrespective here!

reply to post by jrmcleod

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With the way the U.S. is going, do you really think the U.K. would want America back?

reply to post by neformore

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Duplicate thread?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Mind you, This shows a wee bit more info in the OP.

reply to post by jrmcleod

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That why war was declared, to make a seperate country thus making your laws unapplicable.

reply to post by jrmcleod

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I understand your stance, but the argument remains:
If the Colonies were considered a “part of the nation” enough to be taxed, then they were national enough to make a decision on their own, and being that they were a colony thousands of miles from the rest of the world, the weight of the rest of the people under King James wouldn’t have counted in the affairs of those in the Americas. If they weren’t considered a part of the nation any longer by residing outside of the “kingdom”, then the King’s arm no longer had any reign over them, and so their declaration of independence was still sound.

This sort of debate is never ending, full of so many catch-22s that it’ll have your brain hurting, which is why nearly two and a half centuries later, lawyers are still having these debates. To be honest, it doesn’t really matter at this point, as neither nation is likely to survive the next hundred years…. at least not in their present forms.
We've built a mighty alliance with our previous mother, and unfortunately, that relationship has become toxic.

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