I need a home made CO2 Scrubber. Any ideas?

Where I live is Victoria BC. And across the Juan De Fuca strait is Port Angeles and various American towns and cities and they have pulp and paper mills there.

For 2 weeks in the fall, you can smell pulp and paper in certain areas of Victoria from the wind patterns from those mills. They are very large mills.

They also use chlorine gas.

So if TSHTF and their chlorine tanks leak, Victoria could be hit by Chlorine Gas.

Which is similar to mustard gas from WW1 and it is a quick horrible death.

Now part of my survival plan is to acquire a Brink's Truck and do a quick camperization on it, by pulling a few things out of a camper and transferring them into the truck.

In the event that some Chlorine Gas is in the area, I would like to be able to close the air intake, (it has managed air) and re breathe the air inside the truck. To do this I need a CO2 scrubber system.

One that I can make maybe with a coffee can, a pair of nylons and some activated charcoal.

Does anyone know how long I might survive re breathing the air and what sort of CO2 scrubber I could make for this?

The same might be useful for your home or bunker.

reply to post by Rocketman7


activated charcoal will not IMHO remove CO2 it will absorbe chloine gas though

to absorbe co2 effectivly - sofnolime in a tubular holder and pump your air through it

sofnolime is a brand name - the active ingredients and chemistry is explained here

to be blunt - i think you are taking the perceived threat far too seriously

reply to post by Rocketman7


I hear that lime in water does the trick. I'd look it further though.

if you are caught outside you will DIE! Chlorine gas is also caustic to the skin and eyes. Sofmoline tabs work and if you are in the truck....IDK if chlorine gas is flammable so i'd make sure and not have it running unless you find that info out first

reply to post by agentblue


Yea, messing around with chemicals is risky. Consult a professional survival bunker designer imo. They specialize in exactly what he needs.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Rocketman7

 

activated charcoal will not IMHO remove CO2 it will absorbe chloine gas though

to absorbe co2 effectivly - sofnolime in a tubular holder and pump your air through it

sofnolime is a brand name - the active ingredients and chemistry is explained here

to be blunt - i think you are taking the perceived threat far too seriously

Maybe I am.

But just to reassure me, in flash earth, if a chlorine tank burst, like lets say one that is on a train, that size, how large a circle would be the danger zone around the cross hairs here

Originally posted by Evolutionsend
reply to post by agentblue

 

Yea, messing around with chemicals is risky. Consult a professional survival bunker designer imo. They specialize in exactly what he needs.

edit on 19-10-2011 by Evolutionsend because: (no reason given)

Sounds expensive. I could maybe buy some of that stuff on-line, and do it myself. As far as getting a pro to do it, they do it on the space station I think and for the Apollo program. I imagine its really expensive.

But years ago, the first bathescape or bathesphere that went down to the bottom of the sea, They had CO2 scrubbing. And that was about 100 years ago.
I only need to do it a bit. Because I will have an oxygen tank behind the seat and a mask.

Ideally the detector should close the vents and sound an alarm.

reply to post by Rocketman7


How much are your lungs worth to you?

Or your life for that matter. No guarantee how long any home made device would work should the situation actually arise.

So then what is needed is Sodalime I guess.

Which is slaked lime, (which could be had at a hardware store, used to make cement or mark lines on a ball field)
and lye, which is used in bakeries to make pretzels.

So then all I need is a genius chemist who knows the right combination and how to do it, or, pay 249 bucks for the cartridges.

Everything is so expensive. I suppose I should just wait till TSHTF and then go to the local dive shop!

This is a big diving area here Victoria BC so they would have rebreathers, Sodalime cartridges the whole nine yards.

Some duct tape, fit them onto the air inlets on the air system, and put some sliders to close the external air intake or something and do it manually until I could rig up a automatic system.

For sure, in the fall, I will not be in Victoria between Sept and Nov if there is a danger of Chlorine Gas from Port Angeles.
You know that really sucks because those tanks could burst or leak any time from the moment TSHTF to 20 years later. Its just a ticking time bomb and you will never know when it will strike.
So even once the city is no longer on fire. Death could come on the breeze any day at all.

reply to post by Rocketman7


cannot be answered , the dander zone would depend on :

rate of leak

temperature

air pressure

humidity / precipitation

wind speed / direction

terrain [ chlorine gas is more dense than air - and would ` sump ` in low lying pockets - and `roll ` down gradients ]

So you might as well just plastic yourself into your room with your bag of rice and wait to die.

I need someone to slap me and say "GET AHOLD OF YOURSELF. WE, ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE UP !"
"We will survive, we are survivors. We didn't fight the zombie hordes to give up now ! "

You can't live your life in a bubble. SO I am going to move somewhere else then when the SHTF.

And just make journeys into town to get stuff and have a Brink's truck or something with managed air because otherwise, it could be a quick horrible death.

Have to move up the coast, and be on the west side of the pulp mill, like Bamfield, where the closest pulp mill is 30 miles to the North east in Port Alberni.

There is a Marine Science Center in Bamfield they would have rebreathers and sodalime canisters.

So much for living at the mall. Unless the distance that chlorine is deadly is less than the distance across the strait.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Rocketman7

 

cannot be answered , the dander zone would depend on :

rate of leak

temperature

air pressure

humidity / precipitation

wind speed / direction

terrain [ chlorine gas is more dense than air - and would ` sump ` in low lying pockets - and `roll ` down gradients ]

Rough guess? 20 km? For sick but not dead?

You do not need a CO2 scrubber to rebreath the air... you need oxygen. CO2 is not poisonous... but a lack of oxygen is fatal.

You can get that oxygen from CO2 using magnesium as a reducing catalyst, but the operation is complex and the equipment would be fairly large compared to the size of a vehicle. It is also energy intensive, since you are raising the energy level of the carbon in the CO2... think of it as making fuel from waste... the reverse of burning fuel.

I'd be more concerned about the chlorine gas. I believe there are ways to remove chlorine form the air pretty effectively.

TheRedneck

This is not good.

"which could extend as far as 25 miles"

Homeland Security Planning Scenarios
Scenario 8: Chemical Attack - Chlorine Tank Explosion

Originally posted by TheRedneck
You do not need a CO2 scrubber to rebreath the air... you need oxygen. CO2 is not poisonous... but a lack of oxygen is fatal.

You can get that oxygen from CO2 using magnesium as a reducing catalyst, but the operation is complex and the equipment would be fairly large compared to the size of a vehicle. It is also energy intensive, since you are raising the energy level of the carbon in the CO2... think of it as making fuel from waste... the reverse of burning fuel.

I'd be more concerned about the chlorine gas. I believe there are ways to remove chlorine form the air pretty effectively.

TheRedneck

Thanks for the info.
Well any solution to the problem at all would be worth knowing.
I understand that all you have to do though is get some on you. Like if it came into the truck, it would burn your eyes, your mouth, anywhere it touched moisture.

You would be better off, and safer to invest the money in a real gas mask.
One that is full faced.

If you know of the risk save up the money, and do it right.

How do you know you will even make it to the truck/van if there is a chlorine spill?

This is the test you need to have in mind:

Can you make it, from inside your house in bed to the vehicle:and get there holding your breath. WITH with your eyes squeezed shut. Then can you get inside and run the 'system' for a few minutes, to clear the air in the vehicle before gasping for air? Lets break it down step by step:

1- Awake to a gas alarm from the police or fire dept with their sirens and loud speakers driving by warning of impending leak. (Or for our purposes, a leak that has happened and they are trying to get out of harms way too.)

2- Figure out from the foggiest of sleep that your life is in dire threat.

3- Hold your breath in a panic, where your fear is making your body ramp up for fight/flight.

4- Realize / remember that the gas can blind you, so you stop and squeeze your eyes shut and fumble for your keys, pants etc.

5- Make it down the stairs/hallway/ to your door leading to your vehicle.

6 - Open the locks and the door. (If you have keyed dead bolts and have to put the key in the lock.... add more steps for that.)

7- Make it to your vehicle, and find the right key, STILL with your eyes shut to unlock it.

8- Actually get it opened and inside.

9- Remember how to start the system, and do you remember how long it has to run to ensure there is no poison gas in the vehicle.

10- Then there is the OH-S*** moment, of My god what if it doesn't work!!??!!???!


Now ask yourself: Can I get from my bed, to a central (rescue/bug out) closet and get the mask on before I have to gasp for air?

If you can find your way to the closet that has the toilet paper, in the middle of the night.... The odds are you can can find your 'rescue closet' that holds your mask ect in the dark with no lights, and get there without sucking in a lungful of poison gas.

From there you can get anything else done, like putting the bug out bag in a van etc and driving out to safety. Or walking out.

Good luck, the first step in solving any problem is knowing how many steps you need to get out of the problem.

In life and death emergencies, the less steps you need to perform, the better.

Even then you will want to practice putting the mask on.

M.

Chlorine Gas was the least successful poisonous gas used during World War 1. It was quickly replaced much more effective weapons like Mustard and Phosgene.

All you really need is a good gas mask to protect your eyes and lungs. What makes Chlorine Gas lethal is that it will mix with water in your eyes or lungs to create hydrochloric acid. It's the acid that does the damage. Just getting chlorine gas on your skin isn't going to harm you.

Most importantly, you need to be aware of how to detect the gas. It has a distinctive smell and taste. It smells a lot like a sweet but peppery fruit and will leave a metalic taste in your mouth. If you smell and taste this, you need to hold your breath and get a gas mask on immediately to reduce the damage to your lungs.

Now to make a simple CO2 scrubber, you can use activated charcoal. It won't last as long as some other alternatives but in your case will do the job long enough to survive a chlorine gas cloud.

What you would need to do is have some way to circulate the air through the charcoal and then back into cabin. The plus side is that this should also be able to scrub some of the trace amounts of chlorine that will still get into the armored car.

Its life in a plastic bubble, your children in a plastic bubble or death on the breeze.

The Russian Roulette life.

So you live at elevation, but you still will go down to sea level to get supplies, from the burned out buildings and when you do, you have to be suited up with full oxygen and hazmat suit.

Or have the Brink's truck, have sensitive detectors, and never be more than running distance from the truck.

Port Angeles to Victoria is 22 miles. So you have a 3 mile margin of error.

IF, luck is on your side. And the mills are north of Port Angeles and probably more like 16 to 18 miles away.

It really makes no sense to stay in an area where there are pulp mills if it means living a life that might end at any moment from something out of the blue like that.
There are not a lot of warm places in Canada that have palm trees. Victoria is it.
Vancouver will be a wasteland.
Anywhere else its winter time again.

And to go south, means you are into nuclear territory. The US will be a nuclear wasteland due to spent fuel rod Fukushima like China Syndrome, Hanford Site apocalyptic death traps.

Originally posted by allenidaho
Chlorine Gas was the least successful poisonous gas used during World War 1. It was quickly replaced much more effective weapons like Mustard and Phosgene.

All you really need is a good gas mask to protect your eyes and lungs. What makes Chlorine Gas lethal is that it will mix with water in your eyes or lungs to create hydrochloric acid. It's the acid that does the damage. Just getting chlorine gas on your skin isn't going to harm you.

Most importantly, you need to be aware of how to detect the gas. It has a distinctive smell and taste. It smells a lot like a sweet but peppery fruit and will leave a metalic taste in your mouth. If you smell and taste this, you need to hold your breath and get a gas mask on immediately to reduce the damage to your lungs.

Now to make a simple CO2 scrubber, you can use activated charcoal. It won't last as long as some other alternatives but in your case will do the job long enough to survive a chlorine gas cloud.

What you would need to do is have some way to circulate the air through the charcoal and then back into cabin. The plus side is that this should also be able to scrub some of the trace amounts of chlorine that will still get into the armored car.

I think that it might not be a problem, but the fact is not knowing if the tanks will explode or leak and become a problem, removes your sense of security.

Two years down the road, kids are being born and people are recovering from the apocalypse but they are not going to go over to those danger zones, and try to decommission a pulp mill, or 5 giant pulp mills however many there are there. They won't have the skills.

If there were 10 survivors only and one was a pilot, you could bomb them and get rid of them that way.

Otherwise its better to move where there aren't any and while you are moving, you are moving through areas where there are pulp mills. The Northwest of Canada and the US has them.
So you still need the truck and air management just to relocate.

For instance to get to Bamfield, you have to drive through Port Alberni. Or else barge your truck there.
And then once there you are 30 miles away from a pulp mill.

Maybe some time the prevalent winds might even be heading your way. If you have never lived in that area like I haven't, then you wouldn't know.
Here in Victoria, I do know, because I can smell the pulp mill certain times of the year.

And if you can smell the pulp mill, well you are dead if one day it is Chlorine gas. Or your children.

I should check population zero to see how long before tanks can be expected to leak or blow up.

I think they require cooling. Which requires power.

Well there ya go...

"Chlorine tanks, which need to remain cold, heat up until release valves are activated, sending the gas into the surrounding environment. Many animals die of suffocation. Also, liquefied natural gas tanks begin to fail, causing many fires and explosions. (6 hours A.H.)"

6 hours into day one.

Luvly.

No time to get a truck, get a rebreather or install a scrubber. 6 hours.