Even in this economy, hiring someone is a challenge

I'm currently working as the support manager / system operations manager for a medium sized hosting company.

For a couple of months now, I've been trying to hire remote support techs. (Online work from home, basic linux skills required - Bash shell command line, US resident).

I've noticed some strange things -
Even people with minimal experience want salaries so high they aren't even considered. My inbox is full of resumes from people with advanced degrees who have no experience but are just applying for anything they can.

I actually wanted to hire a female linux tech, I thought this would be a perfect job for a single mom / stay at home mom who wants to work from home and needs a flexible schedule. I thought it would be perfect for someone but every female who applied so far fails to follow up for even the first interview.

The majority of applicants are from India. I know there's a lot of Indian outsourcing in the hosting industry and we've had our own poor experiences in that regard. There's a lot of cheap Indian IT labor out there if you're willing to sacrifice quality to save a buck.

I want to find someone with basic linux skills I can train. Education is not a big requirement but I'm amazed there doesn't seem to be anyone who fits our seemingly "easy" requirements. It worries me about the future of IT in this country though. I can either hire a PHD with no experience in this field who is just desperate (and will split as soon as they can) or I can hire more foreign help who not only do a poor job but most of the time are scammers.

This Indian IT worker scam is kind of interesting, actually. Here's how it works...

1 or 2 skilled and certified admins will apply for work doing remote support or development. They will get an apartment in one of the bigger cities and move in with 2, 6 or more friends who have no experience or very little. Then, they try to get the inexperienced friends to babysit the jobs while the experienced guys try to "float" between the jobs and take care of the difficult issues. They will go out and get a half dozen or even more jobs like this and pull in thousands of dollars per month in a country where you can live well for a couple of hundred bucks.

It's very apparent when this goes on, we'll see techs who know how to do certain things suddenly not know how or people who speak / write English well suddenly can barely speak / write the language. I'm amazed how the Internet just continues to provide opportunities for people who want to scam others...

reply to post by ecoparity


That's quite interesting about how the Indian IT worker scam works. I'd not heard of that before now. S/F

I might be interested and I do have some experience with Linux servers, specifically troubleshooting and support. Message me with the details and give me your email address because I can't send private messages here yet.

Thank you.

I have some IT knowledge and I am also in college for an IT related degree. Sadly, I have never worked with Linux. I've always figured this would hinder my opportunities and overall development and apparently I need to get more involved with that.

But, best of luck on your searches. If I had any experience in that area it would definitely be something I would be interested in.

It's quite ironic but the fault of all this outsourcing is "The Big Boys" who indeed are only interested in saving a buck. That saving however does not get passed back to the customer.

I am a sys-admin (Linux skills too) and can't find work that pays a reasonable enough wage that I can even pay my bills and have enough money left over for things like food. I've been unemployed for 2 years now and things aren't looking great. (I'm in Holland, Europe btw). They either want a bucketload of expensive Industry Certification (which needs constant renewing at great cost of both time and money) or cheap starters. I cannot afford to work for 10 dollars an hour no matter what the benefits and flexible hours all add up to. That won't even pay my rent. Sure, I need a cheaper house but due to the housing market here, I don't "qualify" so instead I will have to go into serious debt, ask for emergency housing and hope. I will find a job eventually but its not an industry that is particularly friendly with regard to employees. The longest I've ever worked anywhere in IT is ...2 years. After that they want to upsize, downsize, lay people off, change tack, make more money etc. Working in average IT functions can be quite #ty. Just my 2 cents.

To give an idea, my basic costs just to exist (no car, no holidays, etc) at the moment are 1600-1800 euros in my hand. And thats just existing and not something most of us expect to do when working 40 hours a week. That means my job has to pay at least 3000 a month before tax. I'm 40 with 10 years experience. Is that so much money compared to what some are earning?

reply to post by ecoparity


Well articulated. The entire job market is in disarray because of the process everyone goes through to get 'educated'.

At least you know what you are looking for. Most managers are regurgitating job reqs that don't even apply anymore.

In 2000, post Y2K, companies stopped investing in IT so students stopped studying it. Now 20 years later it is hard to find a good IT professional and those still around demand a higher salary.

Good luck on your quest and stay personal. Don't become a cold manager.

Peace

I regret never pursuing an IT career, I seem to live on the computer and know a ton about it, but not enough to call myself an IT guy. If I did know the ropes, I assure you I would be the perfect employee. Instead I sit here on my butt collecting unemployment because there is no work in my field.

Not that I'm vying for a job offer, but what exactly would a guy need to be an entry level shlub in IT?
I couldn't afford New England Tech and now I read that many who graduate from there still cannot find work.
It seems like you need to ask an employer what they want BEFORE you even select a school.

Some other things seem to be booming though, i work for a telecommunications company, and i was hired 2 or 3 months ago from a contract job, that was contracted to this company. Hiring 14 more people.. probably next to no experience..

I am making half of what someone working for the actual tele company makes, for the same job..
Its still alright money.. But i do eventually wanna gtfo of the city..

I lucked out hardcore too.

I'm right there with you, man.

I'm an assistant manager of a farm supply store. Obviously we don't make rockets, but minimal computer skills, social skills, a professional appearance, and some common sense are essential. You also need to at least be able to learn quickly if you don't have an agricultural back ground.... it is not unusual to go from birthing advice and meds for a goat having kids... to knowing the basics of well pump installation... to knowing what is the best wood heater for a 900 square foot house... and then answer a little old lady about fleas and her little terrier.

We have an opening at our store and it has been open for about 6 weeks now. Up front it is a challenging job... and in a good economy, it is a sucky job... in a bad economy, it is a good job. It requires attention to detail, is fast paced, and you need minimal computer skills. Contact with the public is also minimal. I have yet to find someone qualified.

I have had only one person come in with a tie on, a few come in semi casual... the majority come in looking as if they are going fishing, or about to go to a cookout with their buddies...and I am sure some were.

Most of the people do not even introduce themselves, they do not tell me about theirselves or their abilities, asking for info is like pulling teeth. The majority can not write in legible letters and can not even put together sentences or paragraphs with a coherent theme.

I sit there in the interview and ask them is there anything in their past that may have a negative impact...arrests, jail time, etc... and point out that will not keep them from the position, but lying will.... of course they answer NO... and then we do a background check and sure as shht... they were arrested or incarcerated...they lied... and are no longer considered for the job. The position does offer access to equipment and money and product that is sensitive and we need a trust worthy employee.... not a liar.

Oh, and you have to be able to read. I literally have people coming in that live the lifestyle and buy our products and feed...but they can only tell the difference of the feeds by the bag color... how are they going to read an invoice?

I know there are some good, qualified people out there... I'm still waiting to meet them.

Another example is where I work. We have a revolving door because its so hard to keep specialists. Half the guys coming in look like soup sandwiches. My boss hires them anyways because we have a number to hit. I keep telling him quit wasting our time by hiring these clowns. Chances are they come in, can't handle the work load and start screwing the customers. Next thing I know I'm going out and cleaning up their mess. My job requires long hours, the ability to learn agronomics, customer service, and being able to deal with hellish summers. There are jobs out there but are you willing to do them is the question.

You know, this is probably the most eye opening thread I've read on ATS in a very long time.

Why?

Because it reveals exactly what is going on at both ends of the political spectrum.
What I mean by that is this:
A whole lot of people accuse the Repubs of selling this country out all in the name of out sourcing.
Because of this I totally understand the sentiment and frustration .

Yet, on the other hand you also touch on the modern day predicament where we have able bodied individuals, most of which are probably OWS protestors, griping about not being able to land a decent job.

Yes I'm upset about the outsoursing, but I am more upset about the folks that may be able to do a decent job but hold out and refuse to work at their full potential simply because they feel they may be under paid.

I know there are many spoiled brats out there that actually think they deserve to make hundreds of thousands of dollars just because they feel they may be entitled o do so, but I say to them,
"grow up, you don't know what you are talking about and you don't know jack
about what it takes to make it in the real world."

Kudos to you Op.

Originally posted by ecoparity

1 or 2 skilled and certified admins will apply for work doing remote support or development. They will get an apartment in one of the bigger cities and move in with 2, 6 or more friends who have no experience or very little. Then, they try to get the inexperienced friends to babysit the jobs while the experienced guys try to "float" between the jobs and take care of the difficult issues. They will go out and get a half dozen or even more jobs like this and pull in thousands of dollars per month in a country where you can live well for a couple of hundred bucks.

So the Indians are learning how to outsource thier newly aquired outsourced jobs.

reply to post by LightSpeedDriver


I will have to agree here. I am also in IT software dev, but have been unemployed for several months due to a failed business venture. Whenever I'm asked I always say that I am very open salary wise and will not discriminate against lower offers. However, and I make it very clear up front that if I have to relocate my salary will need to be higher because I have to account for paying rent and mortgage.

I received an offer a few months ago two states away. Because of the relocation I requested a small increase in the starting rate, but was told no. I then offered to take 10k less of the yearly salary to be able to telecommute instead. I explained quite clearly that the average sell time of houses in my immediate area was 8 -12 months. Again I was told no. I then went back and re-evaluated my budget to see what else I could cut to survive on the salary I was being offered. Turns out I would still accrue an additional $100 to $200 of debt each month. Needless to say I had to turn the job down.

I continue to look like crazy and find myself faced with a very real possibility that if I do end up with similar offer I am going to have to walk into the bank hand them the keys to my house and move away.

reply to post by Alxandro


I don't know about you but for me, underpaid is if the job will not allow me to cover my existing expenses. Most of the positions offered these days are underpaid.

I see positions advertised that want a bachelors degree in a major metropolitan area (cost of living tends to be higher) that pay 30K a year. After taxes and health insurance maybe that employee takes home 18K?

reply to post by Scalded Frog


Bingo!

That's the problem, right there!
You seem to be living way beyond your means and you have no one to blame but yourself!

As Dave Ramsey would say, "Act your wage!"

If you can't afford it, don't accuse the one per cent of keeping you down.

Case closed!

reply to post by ecoparity


You mention that applicants are not even considered because they ask for too high a wage. Maybe that is one of the issues. I know that personally, I am not going to apply a put a low salary. It is part of the employers responsibility to negotiate the salary, if they are too scared to post the salary for the position. Too many companies refuse to disclose their salary because they will not get many applications if they do. My suggestion is post a starting minimum salary for the position and disclose that depending on experience the salary may be negotiable up to a certain maximum. This way people that apply know what they are applying for.

reply to post by Alxandro


I agree with Dave, but that sweeping logic does not apply to all scenarios There are many people who were living within their means and found themselves unemployed. So they adjusted their lives to the new means. That doesn't make the financial obligations from the previous life\means just disappear.

reply to post by afroPunk


True!
They may not disappear, but I'm sure they can can be worked out.
I mean, the payments can be re-negotiated, all it would take is a phone call.

I'm sure even the evil corporations are willing to renegotiate payment plans, but for starters, the iPhone and Blackberry may need to go.

reply to post by Alxandro


Yes I am quite familiar with the phone call requesting method. As I mentioned previously I agree with Dave. In fact I am quite a fan of his and a few others. I am simply stating worst case scenario that some people are facing.
Why try to twist this into yet another evil corp occupy thread? I grow weary of reading them.

Most people aren't used to the command line nature of Linux, especially the people just out of college or with limited experience. Sure there is the graphics interface offered in some versions but many people will not go into the terminal emulators. Pointy and clicky makes people lazy.